Countering crime in the early eras

[ExpiredReign]

Crime as a factor of unhappiness seems to be a big factor in my games early on.
Apart from the barracks, which says it reduces crime "slightly"(how much? 10%, halve it, per citixen or as a city's whole population), how do you counter crime in the first two eras?
Secondly how can the player determine what is producing the and what is countering it in the city view?

e.g. the tooltip in the cityview, of a 13 population city, for Happiness says something like:
3 from Crime c5strength.
Produces 1.2 per
Needs 2.73 per
Deficit 16.83

From the pedia I gather crime is a metric based on how "protected" the populace feels.
If so shouldn't walls and garrisons also reduce crime? If they do and I haven't figured that out yet, shouldn't this information likewise by visible to the player?

Lastly, and this is more on unhappiness as a whole, is it possible to have the values the buildings reduce the unhappiness factors shown, rather than the vague terms, or generic statements? Or is it more a case that the player just says: "ah okay I need to build that grocer/constabulary/etc. now and not later" ?

 

[mavol6]

walls, castles and arsenals reduce crime as they provide flat defence to the city.

 

[ExpiredReign]

walls, castles and arsenals reduce crime as they provide flat defence to the city.

Thanks, I thought as much but was surprised to see no indicators of that in game.

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

Also, you can put a garrison in the city.

 

[Gazebo]

Crime as a factor of unhappiness seems to be a big factor in my games early on.
Apart from the barracks, which says it reduces crime "slightly"(how much? 10%, halve it, per citixen or as a city's whole population), how do you counter crime in the first two eras?
Secondly how can the player determine what is producing the and what is countering it in the city view?

e.g. the tooltip in the cityview, of a 13 population city, for Happiness says something like:
3 from Crime c5strength.
Produces 1.2 per
Needs 2.73 per
Deficit 16.83

From the pedia I gather crime is a metric based on how "protected" the populace feels.
If so shouldn't walls and garrisons also reduce crime? If they do and I haven't figured that out yet, shouldn't this information likewise by visible to the player?

Lastly, and this is more on unhappiness as a whole, is it possible to have the values the buildings reduce the unhappiness factors shown, rather than the vague terms, or generic statements? Or is it more a case that the player just says: "ah okay I need to build that grocer/constabulary/etc. now and not later" ?

Buildings that specifically reduce Needs give you a before/after Needs value. Turn off 'no basic help text' to see it.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

Whilst turning off "No basic help text" does add some extra information it isn't really what I am asking.

Looking through the database the additions to the tables, DefenseHappinessChange & DefenseHappinessChangeGlobal, as well as the other happiness modifiers only have values applied to the buildings the tooltip and the pedia describe.
However the extra buildings that I've been told also assist in crime reduction like walls etc. have no values in these columns.

So the question is:
How, apart from the database values on those buildings, are happiness modifiers applied to buildings to reduce crime?

Since the tooltip is pulling the value from these fields it's no wonder there is no visual feedback about the values of the buildings!

 

[Gazebo]

Whilst turning off "No basic help text" does add some extra information it isn't really what I am asking.

Looking through the database the additions to the tables, DefenseHappinessChange & DefenseHappinessChangeGlobal, as well as the other happiness modifiers only have values applied to the buildings the tooltip and the pedia describe.
However the extra buildings that I've been told also assist in crime reduction like walls etc. have no values in these columns.

So the question is:
How, apart from the database values on those buildings, are happiness modifiers applied to buildings to reduce crime?

Since the tooltip is pulling the value from these fields it's no wonder there is no visual feedback about the values of the buildings!

Quoi?

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

Quoi?

G

Exactly! Since I'm being told walls etc. reduce crime, how come I can't see where that is applied?

I know I'm out of touch but...

 

[Gazebo]

Exactly! Since I'm being told walls etc. reduce crime, how come I can't see where that is applied?

I know I'm out of touch but...

Exactly is an odd response to that! Are you asking about how this factors in? The defense of the building adds to your 'defense per citizen' value. The raw difference in 'defense needed overall to reach 0 unhappiness' is in the happiness cityview tooltip.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

Exactly is an odd response to that! Are you asking about how this factors in? The defense of the building adds to your 'defense per citizen' value. The raw difference in 'defense needed overall to reach 0 unhappiness' is in the happiness cityview tooltip.

G

Please don't view me as obstropolous, but your explanations are not actually satisfying me.

I'm coming at this from two angles:

• A newcomer trying to fully understand the mechanics as I play
• A modder that is trying to see how the mechanics are applied

In game the tooltips and pedia don't provide ALL the information needed. I'm told by the pedia that defensive capabilities aid in reducing crime but the city view doesn't show that when defensive structures are examined, only military/police buildings are shown to have an impact. Those that do say they help, don't say by how much. As a player these are the things I need to know.

As a modder I want to be able to look through the code, either the xml/sql at the database entries, or the actual database itself to see what is applied where and by how much. I just can't see where walls, for instance, are helping reduce crime in the code.

 

[Gazebo]

Please don't view me as obstropolous, but your explanations are not actually satisfying me.

I'm coming at this from two angles:

• A newcomer trying to fully understand the mechanics as I play
• A modder that is trying to see how the mechanics are applied

In game the tooltips and pedia don't provide ALL the information needed. I'm told by the pedia that defensive capabilities aid in reducing crime but the city view doesn't show that when defensive structures are examined, only military/police buildings are shown to have an impact. Those that do say they help, don't say by how much. As a player these are the things I need to know.

As a modder I want to be able to look through the code, either the xml/sql at the database entries, or the actual database itself to see what is applied where and by how much. I just can't see where walls, for instance, are helping reduce crime in the code.

Walls help because they provide defense. Defense is calculated per citizen. Defense reduces crime.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

So it's the 'City Combat Strength', thus garrisons assist the value! Ok, I get it now. Thank you.

Any reason why we can't add this information to the pedia entries for these buildings?
Also, the values for happiness suffer from the 'rounding' error whereas the other values don't. Is this something that has been looked at or are we just putting it aside for the time being?

 

[Gazebo]

So it's the 'City Combat Strength', thus garrisons assist the value! Ok, I get it now. Thank you.

Any reason why we can't add this information to the pedia entries for these buildings?
Also, the values for happiness suffer from the 'rounding' error whereas the other values don't. Is this something that has been looked at or are we just putting it aside for the time being?

Rounding? The lua value is rounded for QoL but the dll value is not.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

Rounding? The lua value is rounded for QoL but the dll value is not.

G

Yeah, rounding isn't happening with these values as the example I posted above from an in game experience shows.
I remember Thal's Lua code also had the same issue and that flowed on to the whole UI being messed up. Fortunately all your good work unifying the yields has fixed that mess and there are no such issues now.

 

[Gort]

I must say, it would have been handy to me as a new player if walls said, "Reduce crime" on their description like barracks do.

 

[mernild]

Barracks has to say "reduce crime" because they don't add city defense. With the walls there is no need to say "reduces crime", because walls adds city defense. That's just what they do. And the lack of city defense is just what crime is.

 

[ExpiredReign]

This is going to sound way out of left field, but why not change "Crime" to "Insecurity"?
If what this metric is gauging is how secure the populace feels, then why not point to security as the issue and not crime? While it is true crime does occur sometimes in volatile areas, it is always true that the people feel insecure in those same areas.

 

[Gort]

Barracks has to say "reduce crime" because they don't add city defense. With the walls there is no need to say "reduces crime", because walls adds city defense. That's just what they do. And the lack of city defense is just what crime is.

Illiteracy is just the lack of science production, but the Library still says it reduces Illiteracy on it.

There isn't a downside to putting tooltips on buildings that fight the various types of unhappiness, and there's an upside in that a new player can quickly see his options for fighting them.

 

[Funak]

Illiteracy is just the lack of science production, but the Library still says it reduces Illiteracy on it.

There isn't a downside to putting tooltips on buildings that fight the various types of unhappiness, and there's an upside in that a new player can quickly see his options for fighting them.

Libraries reduce the percentage of needed science as well, that's why they say 'reduces illiteracy'

 

[Gort]

I still think it'd be helpful to new players if buildings that reduced the various types of unhappiness directly indicated such.