[BTS] Crashmon Shadow Game 2 :- Emperor
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Qactus
Romani ite domum
Hmmm, what about you settle the city first, gaining visibility on the fogged tile and then decide about the worker steal? 
EDIT: Maybe you only reveal the tile after settling if it's a hill though, not sure about the rules there.
EDIT: Maybe you only reveal the tile after settling if it's a hill though, not sure about the rules there.
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Founding a city would reveal the hill N of the worker (because it's an unforested hill); if the warrior were standing 1W of where he is, he'd be giving that vision naturally himself. It would not reveal the forested tiles N of pigs or N of incense.
Here's what I'd do: capture the worker first. If you spot an archer in position to counterattack, delete the warrior and worker and back your settler up before ending turn; it'd cost you a warrior and delay your second city slightly, but since he'd have zero war success (because you deleted your units rather than let him kill them) and you had non-zero war success Asoka should be willing to peace out pretty quickly at which point you could settle your second city maybe two turns delayed. Since you took his worker away and he's your first intended victim, slowing him down helps offset the cost of slowing your own second city a couple turns. And that's the worst case.
Much more likely is that there isn't an archer in position, in which case you get the worker, immediately settle your city, get peace in a few turns, and you just are generally further ahead.
Here's what I'd do: capture the worker first. If you spot an archer in position to counterattack, delete the warrior and worker and back your settler up before ending turn; it'd cost you a warrior and delay your second city slightly, but since he'd have zero war success (because you deleted your units rather than let him kill them) and you had non-zero war success Asoka should be willing to peace out pretty quickly at which point you could settle your second city maybe two turns delayed. Since you took his worker away and he's your first intended victim, slowing him down helps offset the cost of slowing your own second city a couple turns. And that's the worst case.
Much more likely is that there isn't an archer in position, in which case you get the worker, immediately settle your city, get peace in a few turns, and you just are generally further ahead.
A "NO" from me, but it's your game. 
Your defenses are super thin and a wandering archer might mean you lose your 2nd city. Worker stealing IMO should be either a) done very very early, like T10 or b) planned well. Opportunistic worker steals around T30 should be considered carefully.
Your defenses are super thin and a wandering archer might mean you lose your 2nd city. Worker stealing IMO should be either a) done very very early, like T10 or b) planned well. Opportunistic worker steals around T30 should be considered carefully.
It will be quite a crowded map due to settings. So bit more risk with worker stealing. Better to take out Indians by the sword. They are a low unit producing AI. I think at some point you will need some warfare here. Guess you might squeeze in 4-5 cities but they will be average.
crashmon
Warlord
So, I decided not to steal the warrior, and go for safer option
- 2nd city founded building warrior
- Worker finished in Cap, building settler
- As advised above have switched to Slavery, so we in one turn of Anarchy
Spoiler Maps :
- We have the wheel now, what next choice of hunting, pottery or AH. I am thinking pottery as on the way to writing, and I don't need AH or hunting urgently
- 2nd Worker being built, should I start to road down to 3rd city spot
- Planning to chop out the settler
- After the settler, should we start on a wonder for fail gold
I'd chop with both workers, probably skipping roading to 3rd for now. I'd just keep growing in York, planning to whip a worker at size 4 (or start a worker at size 2, put in a chop, whip). Unimproved floodplains are not bad at all and as they allow you to use your worker turns better, like chopping.
I'd settle 3rd 1N of copper. 1NE of copper is possible too, but I'd rather save a forest than a grassland.
I think you need a lot of techs before writing, which I wouldn't prioritize at all.
-situation is weak, so AH is pretty important (corn can't be worked by two cities at the same time). Hunting is semi-useful and cheap, masonry is needed for failgold and Mids. I think cities should build settlers/workers with the help of chops now, with so low food granaries aren't that awesome. So my intuition says hunting-AH-pottery-(myst?)-masonry. Hunting isn't massively useful, but it's cheap and gives a bonus towards AH. When building settlers, mined pigs are not much worse than pastured pigs.
In 3rd city I'd like to start the axe asap, which is IMO more important than +1
for road. You need an axe not only for safety, but also scouting east. You need to know pretty soon where 4th city goes.
edit: oh I'd also consider founding on copper. Very efficient as kills a mediocre tile for +2
city center and requires no workerT before starting an axe. Bad part is doesn't share corn, but at least saves a grassland. Pretty sure on copper would be my play.
I'd settle 3rd 1N of copper. 1NE of copper is possible too, but I'd rather save a forest than a grassland.
I think you need a lot of techs before writing, which I wouldn't prioritize at all.
-situation is weak, so AH is pretty important (corn can't be worked by two cities at the same time). Hunting is semi-useful and cheap, masonry is needed for failgold and Mids. I think cities should build settlers/workers with the help of chops now, with so low food granaries aren't that awesome. So my intuition says hunting-AH-pottery-(myst?)-masonry. Hunting isn't massively useful, but it's cheap and gives a bonus towards AH. When building settlers, mined pigs are not much worse than pastured pigs.In 3rd city I'd like to start the axe asap, which is IMO more important than +1
for road. You need an axe not only for safety, but also scouting east. You need to know pretty soon where 4th city goes.edit: oh I'd also consider founding on copper. Very efficient as kills a mediocre tile for +2
city center and requires no workerT before starting an axe. Bad part is doesn't share corn, but at least saves a grassland. Pretty sure on copper would be my play.I don't think I would have gone for TW. Copper can be connected in one city without it, and stone can be aquired by settling on it.
There is also no need for TW for the connection since city1 & city2 are connected by river.
I would have gone either hunt->AH to get the ivory tiles and the pig up.
Or Myst->Mason with the intent of settling on the stone and land some chops into SH/TGW.
As it is now, I think hunt->AH is the best choice, AH also opens up to writing, but no big rush there imho.
I don't think I would settle on the copper unless there is at least something nice there in the south, but something like a tundra deer would probably be enough to sway me, it's a nice choice.
There is also no need for TW for the connection since city1 & city2 are connected by river.
I would have gone either hunt->AH to get the ivory tiles and the pig up.
Or Myst->Mason with the intent of settling on the stone and land some chops into SH/TGW.
As it is now, I think hunt->AH is the best choice, AH also opens up to writing, but no big rush there imho.
I don't think I would settle on the copper unless there is at least something nice there in the south, but something like a tundra deer would probably be enough to sway me, it's a nice choice.
NightOnEarth
Chieftain
Tough choice where to build your 3rd city. Settling on copper (sampsa) would give you a head start for axes. OTOH, remember krikay's hint, that you don't need a road to connect the copper to a 1N/1NE city. I think with a bit of juggling it is possible for your two workers to chop the settler AND to pave a road between London and 3rd city just in time. This might come in handy for your soldiers if barbarians are coming from different directions. Minor side effect is connecting the corn and the pigs to your cities. And yes, chop an axe asap.
If you settle N/NE of the copper, AH might become attractive to pasture the pigs. By this you could share the corn between London and the 3rd city. Horses were revealed > better selection of further settling spots. But maybe hunting first (ivory, bonus when reasearching AH).
Barbarians would worry me. Therefore I'd heal my NW warrior asap and centralize the other one.
Have you noticed that Asoka founded his 2nd city? Now your chances are enhanced that the border pop-up of London (t50) will secure the land to the (N)E, before another Indian settler could settle there.
Funny part of stealing the Indian worker would have been turning a fast worker into an ordinary one.
If you settle N/NE of the copper, AH might become attractive to pasture the pigs. By this you could share the corn between London and the 3rd city. Horses were revealed > better selection of further settling spots. But maybe hunting first (ivory, bonus when reasearching AH).
Barbarians would worry me. Therefore I'd heal my NW warrior asap and centralize the other one.
Have you noticed that Asoka founded his 2nd city? Now your chances are enhanced that the border pop-up of London (t50) will secure the land to the (N)E, before another Indian settler could settle there.
Funny part of stealing the Indian worker would have been turning a fast worker into an ordinary one.
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I just think 3
2 is so much better than 6 that even if the location is slightly weaker, I'd go for the immediate gains (way faster development). Unless the reason you dislike it is something that I don't understand?@sampsa It's nothing you have missed. Me personally would just value the corn sharing higher than the better city center and worker turn savings.
@NightOnEarth By extension of what you say, then a settlement on copper tilts us abit toward delaying AH too!
@NightOnEarth By extension of what you say, then a settlement on copper tilts us abit toward delaying AH too!
I agree that probably wheel could've been pushed after hunt-AH, but not a huge deal. There is really a lot you want to be doing so it's a good game to get the priorities straight.
In general, workers should 1)improve food 2)chop 3)cottage 4)connect - in this order. You have two cities that are connected, that's +2. Connecting 3rd city would be only +1 more. Chopping generates quickly and more is more, the earlier the better. Thus for now, you should mostly be chopping. However, since you haven't really located 4th spot, there isn't a rush to chop it. Getting an axe out next would be my priority, to scout the east without risking dying, then revert to defend from barbs.
No need to panic about barbs, they won't enter at least before T50.
In general, workers should 1)improve food 2)chop 3)cottage 4)connect - in this order. You have two cities that are connected, that's +2
. Connecting 3rd city would be only +1 more. Chopping generates quickly and more is more, the earlier the better. Thus for now, you should mostly be chopping. However, since you haven't really located 4th spot, there isn't a rush to chop it. Getting an axe out next would be my priority, to scout the east without risking dying, then revert to defend from barbs.No need to panic about barbs, they won't enter at least before T50.
crashmon
Warlord
Turn 38
So 3rd city spot?.
- Have teched Hunting, now on AH
- Barb has been seen to the East, warrior from south on way to deal with him
- Warrior to west healing up and FB
- Warrior one turn from being built in york
- York will hit size 2 next turn, and I will start worker (will whip when I can)
- Settler is now built in Cap, will build warrior next
Spoiler Map :
So 3rd city spot?.
- On copper
- 1N of copper
- 1NW Copper
I’m not sure I see the value in settling the copper at all, if not going for India with axes. Barbs can be dealt with warriors and if really required, archers.
Granted neither east nor west is that enticing, but I’d prefer to go either of those than south. For example you could settle 4W of capital, can grow on a farm or two and then work cottages for the capital.
Granted neither east nor west is that enticing, but I’d prefer to go either of those than south. For example you could settle 4W of capital, can grow on a farm or two and then work cottages for the capital.
Don't think it's a good idea to whip 2->1 in York.
At pop1, it has +3 food, at pop2 it has +4 food.
I would chose 1N of copper, but either option is fine and each has it's unique benefits.
Are you moving the warrior in that region away...? That can't be right. You probably need that warrior there to secure the spot for the settler.
I would want to move the warrior up on the copperhill, both to secure the region and to scout abit to see if settling on copper is the better choice.
At pop1, it has +3 food, at pop2 it has +4 food.
I would chose 1N of copper, but either option is fine and each has it's unique benefits.
Are you moving the warrior in that region away...? That can't be right. You probably need that warrior there to secure the spot for the settler.
I would want to move the warrior up on the copperhill, both to secure the region and to scout abit to see if settling on copper is the better choice.
Lots of disagreement here. 
At least it means there is discussion.
For me, copper > 1N > 1NE, simply due to/-output of these spots. I'm not sure if everyone understands how clunky the copper-tile is. You need to improve it, then work it. If you work it size 1, you can't grow. So you also need to grow to size 2 and steal the corn from capital if you want to keep growing. On copper is killing the tile, but gaining 2 free per turn, which is an insane bonus. Now size two working two farms the city is +4 and the unstolen corn allows capital to grow very quickly, also supported by the high -cap.
I would put a chop into worker in 2nd city and whip. 3rd worker is necessary pretty soon anyway.
I agree that it's not mandatory to settle copper yet, but none of the other spots are very good either and not secured at all.
At least it means there is discussion.For me, copper > 1N > 1NE, simply due to
/-output of these spots. I'm not sure if everyone understands how clunky the copper-tile is. You need to improve it, then work it. If you work it size 1, you can't grow. So you also need to grow to size 2 and steal the corn from capital if you want to keep growing. On copper is killing the tile, but gaining 2 free per turn, which is an insane bonus. Now size two working two farms the city is +4 and the unstolen corn allows capital to grow very quickly, also supported by the high -cap.I would put a chop into worker in 2nd city and whip. 3rd worker is necessary pretty soon anyway.
Well, archers need archery. Right now it's hard to even scout the coast reliably, though perhaps possible if you double warriors.
I agree that it's not mandatory to settle copper yet, but none of the other spots are very good either and not secured at all.
The copper-tile is a pretty bad tile. It's at -2 Food and thus quite problematic.
It's also a superb tile to settle on with that 3hammer city center.
It also saves at least 5 workerturns by not having to improve the hill which is really nice.
However... That settlement not only misses out on an opportunity to share the corn. It makes it impossible to ever share the corn.
Ideally we want each food source to be reached by at least two cities so that food can be used for growth rather than workers/settlers.
So settlement on copper makes it abit harder to build workers/settlers efficiently.
It's not like it's the most important decision in the game though, pretty close call between the two alternatives.
Regarding whip in York... Maybe a whip one time here for one more quick worker can work out.
It looks to me like a situation where I would rather want to complete it with only chops and slow-build.
In general, whipping down cities which are so slow in growth isn't good.
York is a city that I would rather do some whips in at a much higher pop so that it can utilize the floodplains and regrowth from whips much faster.
And yes to @Nick723, there are some merits to thinking that the copper might be a red herring altogether. The map could be played in a completely different way, claiming more land and securing with warriors.
I don't like the proposed western foodless city spot though. If ignoring copper I would rather want to go for something that can reach the pig, or venture out far for the sheep. But in such an alternative history, delaying the settler for city#3 is probably better.
It's also a superb tile to settle on with that 3hammer city center.
It also saves at least 5 workerturns by not having to improve the hill which is really nice.
However... That settlement not only misses out on an opportunity to share the corn. It makes it impossible to ever share the corn.
Ideally we want each food source to be reached by at least two cities so that food can be used for growth rather than workers/settlers.
So settlement on copper makes it abit harder to build workers/settlers efficiently.
It's not like it's the most important decision in the game though, pretty close call between the two alternatives.
Regarding whip in York... Maybe a whip one time here for one more quick worker can work out.
It looks to me like a situation where I would rather want to complete it with only chops and slow-build.
In general, whipping down cities which are so slow in growth isn't good.
York is a city that I would rather do some whips in at a much higher pop so that it can utilize the floodplains and regrowth from whips much faster.
And yes to @Nick723, there are some merits to thinking that the copper might be a red herring altogether. The map could be played in a completely different way, claiming more land and securing with warriors.
I don't like the proposed western foodless city spot though. If ignoring copper I would rather want to go for something that can reach the pig, or venture out far for the sheep. But in such an alternative history, delaying the settler for city#3 is probably better.
I think high -cap (CHA, ivory) makes -sharing a bit less important. With the lowest possible -cap at least my choices would be a bit different. As it is, I'd just "chop like a bastard"™ to get the cities up asap and start growing, cottages and granaries are not that far away now.
-cap (CHA, ivory) makes -sharing a bit less important. With the lowest possible -cap at least my choices would be a bit different. As it is, I'd just "chop like a bastard"™ to get the cities up asap and start growing, cottages and granaries are not that far away now.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
- Messages
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London will have lots of for units without whipping already, so i think one of the tiles should be shared.
I wonder if corn or pigs works better..east city could also feed on a new corn.
While stone and copper are bad tiles, a combo brings in 11 later for units.
for units without whipping already, so i think one of the tiles should be shared.I wonder if corn or pigs works better..east city could also feed on a new corn.
While stone and copper are bad
tiles, a combo brings in 11 later for units.
