Creation vs Evolution

[Zarn]

Originally posted by cgannon64


Well, the popes you are talking about had mistresses and answered to secular nations. Popes aren't infallible, but they are about as good today as they get (except some of the very early ones). I prefer not to disagree with the Vicar of Christ (the offical term for the Pope), especially when his statements make alot of sense to me.

CG

I want to see the source, where he comes out and says evolution is correct.

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by Zarn

I want to see the source, where he comes out and says evolution is correct.

Is there a Catholicchurch.com? Where would I find that? I heard it via my religion teacher, is that good enough a source for you?

CG

 

[Dark Ascendant]

I am for the most part, an atheist. Their is room for both. However, I doubt that God is going to create anything new around here lately.

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


Imagine what the idea of a "Bible" written almost completely figuratively by mere humans, being the word of some "God," sounds like to atheists. A theory with far more scientific backing, like evolution is far more likely if it were an either/or situation. (which it probably ISN'T)

Actually the Bible has a comment on that.For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 1 Cor 3:19,20

and quoted elsewhere

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6

Evolution itself is a fractured place. Many leading Cosmologists are religious. The questionis not whether there is eveolution, but whether it has been guided.

J

 

[sween32]

I think they work together. Nianderthauls (sp?) had animal instincts to stay in pacts, areas of property, and population control. Our ancestors, homo erectus, did not have that. We over populate and use up all of earth resources with no regard to the future. We evolved and learned how to use tools so quickly that there has to be something else going on. Nianderthauls tools barely changed thruout their whole history. Even Einstein said that the human brain is too complicated to be natural. I don't know if we were a test, or even a mistake by a higher power. But there has to be a reason why we are the way we are. I personally think God saw something in the Nianderthauls which he created in his image and decided to improve upon it... whether he made the right decision or not. But hey, if the octopus had a longer lifespan it would rule the world... so anything is possible.

 

[bobgote]

I believe in the bible literally. Creation, as it says in the book.

Originally posted by cgannon64


How do Bible Literalists explain all the scientific evidence pointing to evolution?

What evidence??? To my knowledge there is only circumstantial for, and damning against.

You must change with the times, but not give up your old ways. See that the Bible is figurative in most parts.

Says who? The Catholics??

Even if i didn't believe the bible and take it as truth, i'd be more willing to take the big leap to believe in god, than the millions of big leaps to believe in evolution. I mean just cos something's new and novel, doesn't mean it's true. I mean, human skeleton, monkey skull, sticky tape them together and that's all the evidence I need.

And to those saying both, why would god do that, when he could do it all at once?

I actually read somewhere that they just found evidence pointing to a big hole in the whole big bang thing, I'll try to find where that was, and what it was exactly.

 

[Sanaz]

Originally posted by bobgote
And to those saying both, why would god do that, when he could do it all at once?

This will depend on the view of "god". I believe in a god that sets a natural process in motion, but does not interfere with the natural process once it begins. Therefore, god is directly responsible for my creation, and I can check back in for guidance and assistance throughout my life, but god will not interfere with my free-will to do as I please. I see the same process in creation of life on Earth, but then evolution took over and created the changes through time.

It works for me, but will likely sound like rubbish to the next guy. That's why I won't argue any points based on faith or religion. At the end of the day, if I do believe in an "all-knowing power", and I am NOT an "all-knowing power", how could I possibly understand it, describe it effectively, and try to convince someone else that I'm "right" and they're "wrong"? So, I've found that my beliefs have made me much more open minded...

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by Sanaz
This will depend on the view of "god". I believe in a god that sets a natural process in motion, but does not interfere with the natural process once it begins. Therefore, god is directly responsible for my creation, and I can check back in for guidance and assistance throughout my life, but god will not interfere with my free-will to do as I please. I see the same process in creation of life on Earth, but then evolution took over and created the changes through time.

That is what I believe. He is a diety, so He has a plan. When He created the universe, he foresaw what evolution would create, and He thought, That is good. And when I read "In my image", I think they are talking about human intelligence, not meaning God looks like us.

Originally posted by bobgote
Even if i didn't believe the bible and take it as truth, i'd be more willing to take the big leap to believe in god, than the millions of big leaps to believe in evolution. I mean just cos something's new and novel, doesn't mean it's true. I mean, human skeleton, monkey skull, sticky tape them together and that's all the evidence I need.

Look at what you just said from an athiest's standpoint. They would laugh. Don't make me get a list of evidence pointing to evolution...

CG

 

[MCdread]

Originally posted by bobgote

What evidence??? To my knowledge there is only circumstantial for, and damning against.

Fortunatelly there are people who like to expand their knowledge. Maybe you should do a ckeck-in to yours.

 

[MCdread]

Sorry. Double post

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by onejayhawk


Actually the Bible has a comment on that.For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 1 Cor 3:19,20

and quoted elsewhere

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6

Evolution itself is a fractured place. Many leading Cosmologists are religious. The questionis not whether there is eveolution, but whether it has been guided.

J

What is said in the Bible has little bearing on me, except that I enjoy some of the stuff in its historical context.

"The question is not whtere there is evolution, but whethere it has been guided"

Tell that to Zarn. I personally haven't ruled out the idea of a God, but I have little to no inclination to believe in cultural details, such as Bibles, churches, or any of the likes. Of course I have no problem with them, as they have brought many a person comfort and balance in their lives. I however, would rather take the road less traveled.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by bobgote

I actually read somewhere that they just found evidence pointing to a big hole in the whole big bang thing, I'll try to find where that was, and what it was exactly.

Actually the Big Bang Theory is what creationists are banking on, as it suggests a beginning caused by something (a God).

 

[newfangle]

A "big hole" in the big bang theory?

Two things:
1) Its a theory, just like God except there is evidence to back it up.
2) There are many other theories, such as neutrinogenisis. I wouldn't be mortified if the big bang was not the moment of matter creation. There are other theories that I am perfectly happy with.

bob, you actually take the bible literally? So god just went "click" eh?

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by newfangle
bob, you actually take the bible literally? So god just went "click" eh?

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


What is said in the Bible has little bearing on me, except that I enjoy some of the stuff in its historical context.

"The question is not whtere there is evolution, but whethere it has been guided"

Tell that to Zarn. I personally haven't ruled out the idea of a God, but I have little to no inclination to believe in cultural details, such as Bibles, churches, or any of the likes. Of course I have no problem with them, as they have brought many a person comfort and balance in their lives. I however, would rather take the road less traveled.

What am I supposely wrong with. That is not too clear to me.

 

[CurtSibling]

Zounds!

Look what dreaded thread has resurfaced to haunt us all!
Ho-hum, time for my standard response;

Personally I have reasons to put my belief in Evolution,
I see creation as mere myth, one that all cultures formed in thier infancy.

But as always,
Faith is one chain of thought, Science is a different sphere totally.

Science cannot fully explain the meaning of the universe, or is there a meaning?
Belief in god cannot repair a broken machine or cure a disease.

What is real to one person is nonsense to the next.
By this axiom, none of you are wrong, but none of you are correct either!

So what is the point of this endless argument?
You puny humans will never know!!!

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by Zarn

What am I supposely wrong with. That is not too clear to me.

You seem to have ruled out the idea of evolution, while the statement I quoted was saying creationism and evolution can coexist.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


You seem to have ruled out the idea of evolution, while the statement I quoted was saying creationism and evolution can coexist.

So, some people rule out religion. Personally, I think it is very unlikely for evolution in species to be true.

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


What is said in the Bible has little bearing on me, except that I enjoy some of the stuff in its historical context.

"The question is not whtere there is evolution, but whethere it has been guided"

Tell that to Zarn. I personally haven't ruled out the idea of a God, but I have little to no inclination to believe in cultural details, such as Bibles, churches, or any of the likes. Of course I have no problem with them, as they have brought many a person comfort and balance in their lives. I however, would rather take the road less traveled.

I grant you the right to disagree of course. I start from the perspective that it is impossible to understand anything worthy of being called God, unless God wants to be understood and aids in the process. Since I believe that that is in fact the case, it follows that I consult God's communications on this and any other subject.

Evolution means change. No one denies that things change. The question is whether the changes have a designed flow or not. Some will make a big point of whether the world was created in six literal days or not. To me its beside the point. If God created the world through what we consider ordinary means, but in a fast forward mode, so that it took only six days, how would we ever know? The geologic/cosmologic record would be the same.

So again the question is, "Is there a Maker?" The rest is just details.

J

 

[Zarn]

Let's put it this way, 6 days to God is alot of years to us.