Criticism of Josh Gordon and race relations

Archbob

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So,
Here's a bit of background information on this story.

Josh Gordon, NFL star wide receiver has been suspended multiple times through his playing years due to drug violations and can't seem to stop.

A black sports analysts, NBA hall of famer Charles Barkley, and other prominent figures in the black America have called him out to get his act together, not squander his opportunities, and not to blow his career. But he has not listened. He has instead responded with this open letter.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/josh-gordon-cauldron

Which Stephen A. Smith shredded in his response:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/stephen_a_smith_on_josh_gordon.html

Now, its true that Smith and Barkley may not have experience with drug addiction, but they do know a thing or two about growing up in a poor black community, raised by single parents.

Every time this happens, sides are divided with the blacks in the hood still calling Smith and Barkley Coons and Uncle Toms while more educated blacks generally tend to agree with Smith and Barkley and want people like Gordon to get their act together.

Which side do you guys take?

I tend to side with Barkley and Smith on these issues and there's a good reason for that.

Right now in America there are 2 types of Black people. The ones that came here long ago(and its these that are still mostly in projects and ghettos) and the ones that are immigrating now or recently immigrating. There is a huge stark difference between the two groups and its not based on skin color, cause you know, they are both black.

The older group of Blacks have the lowest average income of just about any group in the states while the Newer group of blacks have actually the highest median income of any group(including whites and Asians). So, you cannot really attribute to race and discrimination because I doubt anyone can actually tell by looking at a black person whether they are the old guard or the recent immigrants. I've seen this in my own social circles and in high school. There was a stark contrast. The kids of the old guard group were the ones struggling and trying to not drop out while the Kids of the newer group were(was) the class president and had all the academic honors. So I can't believe its the "white man" keeping blacks down because they are obviously not keeping the newer group of blacks down(the newer group of blacks generally immigrate from places like Jamaica, Barbados, and those places and not Africa) and they mostly have high-wage jobs have lawyers, doctors, etc. So, its impossible for black people to raise up in society because of racial discrimination and skin color is pretty much false because the new group of black immigrants have proved these assertions false.

That why I tend to agree with Stephen A Smith and Charles Barkley and the like and reject the teachings of Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson.
 
Gordon is way ahead of the game financially than most black immigrants, so he must be proof that even a screw-up from the hood can beat the system in spite of people like Barkley and Smith trying to keep him down.
 
I don't think they said anything about him until like the 4th or 5th time he violated the drug policy.
Most players are way ahead of the game while they are playing, but they fall behind really fast when their career on the field ends and Josh's career on the field may end faster than anyone thinks due to his personal decisions.
 
Plenty of successful people violate company policy numerous times. I believe Mr. Gordon is still a 1%er in terms of annual income, so it just seems class warfare to criticize at this point.
 
I don't think its class warfare, both Barkley and Smith are very well off. They are just seeinga very talented young man waste his talent by repeatedly getting fined and suspended. He could have 4-5 times more than he has if he had just stayed off the weed after multiple warnings and it may cost him tens of millions of dollars in the future if he refuses to stay off the weed and admit his own problems.

The greater issue is that black sports stars are often role models to kids in their community, so if Josh Gordon does drugs and smokes weed, then those that look up to him will think its fine as well. Unfortunately for those people, they don't have the wide receiving talents of Josh Gordon.
 
I don't believe its precisely discrimination keeping African Americans down, but rather a lack of opportunity in the ghetto. I mean, just the fact that they were born in a ghetto is one strike against the "old guard" African Americans. Then the lack of businesses there contributes to lack of opportunity which leads to African Americans in the ghetto joining gangs because those are the only options for money which continues the lack of businesses. i won't mention the police, because police- ghetto relations are a tricky business and I don't want to bad mouth cops, but I feel the police don't help the situation.
 
The greater issue is that black sports stars are often role models to kids in their community, so if Josh Gordon does drugs and smokes weed, then those that look up to him will think its fine as well.
Since corporations are people, every single Fortune 500 company does drugs and smokes weed. It is completely mainstream.
 
I think the more appropriate commenter on the subject is Chris Carter, because Gordon's issues have nothing to do with race. It has to do with choosing between substances and a career path in which those substances are not allowed. Carter faced the similar choice, and as far as I know Smith and Barkley did not. Gordon has a very prominent team mate facing the same situation, who is white and comes from money, so this is clearly not a race or class specific issue.
 
The fact that he is getting fined is 100% the fault of the person issuing the fine. You can't expect others to stop a compulsive finer until the finer admits his problem.
 
So,
Here's a bit of background information on this story.

Josh Gordon, NFL star wide receiver has been suspended multiple times through his playing years due to drug violations and can't seem to stop.

A black sports analysts, NBA hall of famer Charles Barkley, and other prominent figures in the black America have called him out to get his act together, not squander his opportunities, and not to blow his career. But he has not listened. He has instead responded with this open letter.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/josh-gordon-cauldron

Which Stephen A. Smith shredded in his response:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/stephen_a_smith_on_josh_gordon.html

Now, its true that Smith and Barkley may not have experience with drug addiction, but they do know a thing or two about growing up in a poor black community, raised by single parents.

Every time this happens, sides are divided with the blacks in the hood still calling Smith and Barkley Coons and Uncle Toms while more educated blacks generally tend to agree with Smith and Barkley and want people like Gordon to get their act together.

Which side do you guys take?

I tend to side with Barkley and Smith on these issues and there's a good reason for that.

Right now in America there are 2 types of Black people. The ones that came here long ago(and its these that are still mostly in projects and ghettos) and the ones that are immigrating now or recently immigrating. There is a huge stark difference between the two groups and its not based on skin color, cause you know, they are both black.

The older group of Blacks have the lowest average income of just about any group in the states while the Newer group of blacks have actually the highest median income of any group(including whites and Asians). So, you cannot really attribute to race and discrimination because I doubt anyone can actually tell by looking at a black person whether they are the old guard or the recent immigrants. I've seen this in my own social circles and in high school. There was a stark contrast. The kids of the old guard group were the ones struggling and trying to not drop out while the Kids of the newer group were(was) the class president and had all the academic honors. So I can't believe its the "white man" keeping blacks down because they are obviously not keeping the newer group of blacks down(the newer group of blacks generally immigrate from places like Jamaica, Barbados, and those places and not Africa) and they mostly have high-wage jobs have lawyers, doctors, etc. So, its impossible for black people to raise up in society because of racial discrimination and skin color is pretty much false because the new group of black immigrants have proved these assertions false.

That why I tend to agree with Stephen A Smith and Charles Barkley and the like and reject the teachings of Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson.

You're doing the lazy thing where you use negative evidence to cast doubt on one explanation and then don't offer one of your own.

I mean if thats all you're doing and you acknowledge that, fine. Would be much better if you offered your own alternative explanation for why non-immigrant black people have low average income. Otherwise racism still looks like a pretty strong explanation.
 
You're doing the lazy thing where you use negative evidence to cast doubt on one explanation and then don't offer one of your own.

I mean if thats all you're doing and you acknowledge that, fine. Would be much better if you offered your own alternative explanation for why non-immigrant black people have low average income. Otherwise racism still looks like a pretty strong explanation.

Look, I think its mostly the crab mentality that is keeping these people down. Both Barkley and Smith have mentioned this many times in their past interviews/commentaries. You can't place it on racism if one group of African Americans Succeeds and the other doesn't. In light of that, racism actually looks like a really weak explanation. Its only strong for those that don't want to believe that personal responsibility is a huge factor in the reason these people are down. You can't just look at a person and tell which group that person is from, they look the same for the most part.
 
The Irish were certainly discriminated against even though they looked the same as many whites that were not discriminated against.
 
IDK, still looks like racism to me. One group experienced historic American racism, the other only modern American racism, and they have different outcomes. Immigrants are also to some extent self-selecting.
 
So bootstraps basically?
 
Hail Emperor Obama?

Nope. 3 months have passed, and still that sounds unimpressive as hell. We need someone with an easier to chant by crowds name.
 
IDK, still looks like racism to me. One group experienced historic American racism, the other only modern American racism, and they have different outcomes. Immigrants are also to some extent self-selecting.

I've always found that pretty weak as an explanation. The kids today all experience the same modern racism. When a racist sees a black person, I doubt he pauses to think "I wonder if that a recent black person or one of the Old guard", to him, they are all just black.
 
I've always found that pretty weak as an explanation. The kids today all experience the same modern racism. When a racist sees a black person, I doubt he pauses to think "I wonder if that a recent black person or one of the Old guard", to him, they are all just black.

What about racism performed by institutions? Racism is not just something that comes from an easily identifiable group of cackling evil racists.

And for a guy who acknowledges that some groups have a lower than average income you seem to have a bit of a blindspot when it comes to considering how that might affect the formative years of the kids today.
 
Institutions have a checkbox that's says "race" and one of the options is "black". They don't identify types of black.

Income is classicism and not racism. If your usin that, you can't blame race for it.
 
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