Croatian Civilization

And generations to come.

About the leaders:

First a medieval one: Trpimir, Branimir, Domagoj, Tomislav, Stjepan Držislav, Petar Krešimir IV, Dmitar Zvonimir

I think Tomislav is the best pick.

Second, a modern one: Nikola Subic Zrinski, Josip Jelacic, Ante Starcevic, Josip Juraj Strossmayer, Stjepan Radic, Josip Broz Tito, Franjo Tudjman.

I cannot make up my mind, Ante Starcevic(Pater Patriae) is in the lead and Josip Jelacic is the runner-up. Opinions, until a later date, I'm sticking with the current somewhat comical choice.

And also, Guard or Garde?

And another thing, sounds. Croatian units speak American. Need to get a mic or rip some sounds from internet freebies(like 'Pastirković' in Laku noć Hrvatska... 'Što ću jadan', 'Kako ću'...)
 
Tomislav definitely for the early leader.

The modern one is more tricky, but I think I would go with Tudman or Jelacic as second choice. Tito was important but was "shared" :D

About the sounds, I bet you can find loads on hr.misc.binaries, or simply ask there and people will provide them. That groups is good source for various multimedia content.

P.S. Don't neglect the Slovenian civ, I'm waiting to upload them too :)
 
I forgot about Tudjman. I should smack myself across the face LOL
 
Ante Pavelic LOL .. only reason he held any title, was because to the people of croatia he Seemed like the lesser of two evils.

the Fake Kingdom we were part off.. or he offered a different choice.
Most people didn't support either/thats why in the end Tito won out.

The only reason I'm even responding to your post Vladdy, is because I found your post insulting, ignorant and very Prejudice. My Grandfather fought against the fascists in World War 2 with a lot of his friends from the area he grew up in.
 
Ante Pavelic LOL .. only reason he held any title, was because to the people of croatia he Seemed like the lesser of two evils.

Actually, this is terribly wrong. It suggests that he was in some way elected or rationally chosen. In fact he was neither - he was a puppet installed by Italians after Germans tried someone else who had political legitimacy (Macek) and couldn't get him to take the position.
 
Exactly, and where did most of Napoleons' Garde come from? Illyric provinces. Ergo, Croats.

Illyric provinces weren't in Croatia only.
Dalmatia is a region with a long history. Its name is probably derived from the name of an Illyrian tribe called the Dalmatae which lived in the area of the eastern Adriatic coast in the 1st millenium BC. It was part of the Illyrian kingdom between the 4th century BC until the Illyrian Wars in the 220s BC when it was conquered by the Roman Republic. The Dalmatians rebelled once again in 180 BC, but were again subdued in 168 BC.

Well, ancient Dalmatia at one point in history declared itself separate from the Illyrian Kingdom. Then later the slavic tribes came and assimilated the population, creating the Croatians, a very interesting civilization with a long history.

Suggestions:
Your UU sounds very good, and in a 21st century scenario I have a feeling that Croatia would win most of the time.

Your choice of leader is very nice, the first Croatian king to create a strong croatian kingdom ... however, it does not match your unique unit.

eh, come to think of it , your 2nd leader CAN match your UU ...

Might I suggest then making a second UU for Tomislav? Now , it would not be fair to include him in your civ unless you make a mod where all civilizations present have 2 UUs. But it's something to think about.

Nice work.
 
Illyric provinces have nothing to do with ancient Illyrian tribes, it was a short lived political entity during early 19.ct, during the Napoleon era.

Modern leader is not yet decided upon. The current Prime Minister is just filling the spot until a decision is made.

As for era of Tomislav... I'm not sure what unit to implement, there were no professional armies back then, and his army did not differentiate from the army of any other European Christian ruler. Perhaps some kind of naval unit, but... not interesting enough.
 
http://www.studiacroatica.com/jcs/01/01mandic.htm

During Tomislav's reign, Croatia had an army of 100,000 infantrymen and 60,000 mounted soldiers. Its navy consisted of 80 large and 100 small ships.[5] Tomislav was conscious of his power. He courageously repelled neighboring enemies, particularly Magyars, whom he defeated several times.[6] However, he neither attacked neighbors nor longed for their territories.

Maybe he shouldn't be "aggressive" in the civ?
 
I am willing to bet those numbers are exxagerated.
 
Shqype said:
I am willing to bet those numbers are exxagerated.

C. Porphyrogenitus, op. cit., Ch. 31, p. 150

Thats the source of those numbers..

Porphyrogenitus, is the byzantium emperor, and came from a book he wrote.
I guess some chance of exagerating if we want to speculate.. since they're allies. but speculation is all fun and games but it is usually wrong. I will speculate and say maybe the Bulgar king speculated those numbers were wrong too, and he ended up with a heart attack..So in that case that would had been a bad bet.. Ofcourse that is a speculation too, and most likely wrong too lol. So I'll hold off from betting.
 
MORE PROOF that those numbers are not high.

Would be the fact that Croatia keeps expanding the empire until 1074. "The mediæval Croatian kingdom reached its peak during the reign of King Petar Krešimir IV (1058–1074)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Croatia#Medieval_Croatian_state_.28until_1102.29

Finally, "The Battle of Gvozd Mountain (Peter´s Mountain) was probably one of the biggest and bloodiest battle of the middle ages. It was also a decisive evant for the history of Croatia and Hungary.

The battle took place in the year of 1097.
BIGGEST BATTLES IN MIDDLEAGES.. require a lot of troops.
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gvozd_Mountain_%28Peter%60s_Mountain%29"
I rest my case.
 
Pooks said:
http://www.studiacroatica.com/jcs/01/01mandic.htm

During Tomislav's reign, Croatia had an army of 100,000 infantrymen and 60,000 mounted soldiers. Its navy consisted of 80 large and 100 small ships.[5] Tomislav was conscious of his power. He courageously repelled neighboring enemies, particularly Magyars, whom he defeated several times.[6] However, he neither attacked neighbors nor longed for their territories.

Maybe he shouldn't be "aggressive" in the civ?

Aggressive trait is not about aggressive behaviour, but militarism. Since Tomislav placed great focus on military might and was one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful monarchs at the time(I am not implying that Croatia was a superpower, but compared to the power that other kings could project(or not due to disobedient vassals), in some kingdoms, dukes were more powerful than kings). He defeated both Magyars and Bulgarians within two years. 924. and 926. I think. And these two were the main predators in Europe at the time.
 
I think that it would be better to replace this unique unit with the Trenkovi panduri unit(mix between conquistador and cavalry) as the one you put in is, let's face it.. bogus:crazyeye:
i don't think that croatian armoured divisions are unique, while croatian cavalry was at least famous throughout the turkish invasion.
 
Trenkovi panduri were hussars, and they're currently Hungarian unique unit. Croatian light cavalry during 30years war was simply refered to as Croats, even light cavalries that were not Croatian were called Croats at the time.

There is nothing bogus about Croatian Garde brigades, and their trait represents the tactics used in Bljesak, Oluja and the whole '94-'95 Bosnia campaign. From Kupres to the gates of Banja Luka. Croatian Garde is the most effective military unit that fought a war in Europe at the end of 20.ct.

And Trenk was more famous for fighting the Prussians in the war of Austrian succession, than the Turks in the Russian-Turkish war. And he was the first to implement a military musician band. I'm not gonna make a unique unit based on one eccentric commander and a mob of 1,000 cavarlymen.
 
Your UU should be U (how convenient) - Ustasa and he should have features similar to Grenadier except he should have retreat ratio 100%, HP instead of 12 maybe 6. He should allow you to construct Jasenovac which will allow you to kill 1/3 of the population of your country that are different religion.
This is all based on historic events and do not even try to explain.

Of course, with above mentioned Ante Pavelic as leader (aggresive, ******ed) that would be true croatian civ.
Moderator Action: Trolling - warned. You were warned above, which you have ignored. Consider this your final warning.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Shqype said:
Your choice of leader is very nice, the first Croatian king to create a strong croatian kingdom ... however, it does not match your unique unit.
Do Panzers match any of Gemany's leaders?

I like your UU choice, because Croatia fought quite a lot in last 10-20 years. And it obviously can't be Ustaša :)

I don't know enough history to know who Trenk was :blush: , but if a neighbour doesn't know that, it's hard to imagine that most Americans would.
 
Franjo Trenk was a very 'charismatic' Croatian commander from the 17th century. After his wife died from the plague, he went off to fight the Turks in Russia as a mercenary. He was pretty good at it, but made a lot of enemies, since he was not the one to obey orders(like when ordered to retreat he led the army to charge and won). Later, when the war of Austrian succession broke out.

He gathered volunteers and marched for Vienna to help Maria Theresa. He made a big show in town. Colorful uniforms and first military band in Europe. After that he went off to wreak havoc in Prussia. This later resulted in many tales for scaring young children. (IE. If you misbehave Croats will come and eat you.) Later, when he gloriously returned to Vienna, a jealous minister accused him of atrocities vs. civilians. He threw that minister off the balcony in the opera and was locked up in prison where he shortly after died of illness.
 
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