Croatian Civilization

[Anima Croatorum]

Again, my vote goes to Player1's suggestion:

Yet, 'Marš na Drinu' is kosher. And that is definitively song that had recieved completely alternate meaning and symbolizes Milosevics aspirations of the in the 90-ies.

 

[kovach81]

no it is not. anima don't be like that. i don't agree whit srdjann that serbs started the war coz i'm from bosnia and i know what i'm talking about, but still i don't want to put some war songs from '91-'95 in serbian mod. i don't like tmpson too and everything about "domovinski rat". please whitout politics, but this is political song at least for me. and i agree whit mr. v about super civ if you put that song, first thing in the game for me is to destroy croatia.

 

[Mr_V]

Yet, 'Marš na Drinu' is kosher. And that is definitively song that had recieved completely alternate meaning and symbolizes Milosevics aspirations of the in the 90-ies.

Yes, it is kosher, in my view. That song was written about a battle against Austro-Hungary, and has, throughout the times, become one of the nicest Serb traditional songs. In years of Milošević, every single traditional song was abused and associated with Arkan, Mladić, škorpions, tigers, etc, "Маrš na Drinu", "Tamo daleko", "Bože pravde". Is that the fault of those songs though? What should be done if Serbia some day finally gets a proper government that will want to bury all relics of Milošević's reign - should those songs be burned and banned and never played again?

What if someone said that "Lijepa naša" brings memories of NDH and nazi-puppet-state because it was a Croat anthem in 1941-1945? Ridicilous! "Lijepa naša" is older than that, and has nothing to do with the fact that Pavelić used it as an anthem.

However, if someone like Ceca sang "Marš na Drinu", I'd never agree with putting that version in, that would indeed (for me) put an entirely different light on it. But the versions of "Marš na Drinu" that have been suggested have not been ruined by personification of unwelcome characters performing it, unless someone particularly does not like Smak?

 

[srdjann]

OK, it's your mod and if you like it that no one but Croats will play it, that's fine by me...

I'm sure that you are aware that you can not change my mind about Thompson and his songs. I will not try to do that as well - I'm just writing my oppinion with my arguments.

The thing is that I couldn't play anything which promotes Thompson in positive way, even though that are "political correct" songs (which is NOT the case here since in the first song there is a part of the text which mentions "Herceg-Bosna" which is NOT part of Croatia but Bosnia and Herzegovina and that is completely the same like mentioning that same part and Lika in Serbian song "Oj Srbijo mati", which is disguisting for me and I can think how much is disguisting to you).

I was against puting cities which were never part of Serbia into Serbia mod (like Banja Luka, Knin, Niksic) so it would be against my principles not to complain against this because it is the same situation.

And that's all without mentioning Thompsons ustasha background which exists even though you tried to minimize it. Man who sings "Jasenovac i Gradiska Stara" can not be representative of Croatia because he is not representing the essence of Republic of Croatia which is based on anti-fascistic battle and not on the state which he glorifies (NDH - Independent State of Croatia - ustasha's state).

But since I'm not a Croatian I will stop here. If you like it this way ok, you will represent Croatia in wrong way and I am not the one who will receive consequences - you will.

I succeded into what matters to me and that's that Serbia mod does not have elements which are not representative (like cities which have never been a part of Serbia) and which are very bad (like the thing that someone tried to implement Nikolaj Velimirovic as a great person).

I'll finish - technical details of this mod are superb, many of elements are great (leaders and the flag especially) and the only one thing that I don't like in this mod is the music and the author of those songs. Unfortunately that bothers me so much that makes this mod unplayable for me and I hope that in the future you will find some more acceptable songs which will represent Croatian people, Croatian state and Croatian struggle for freedom because I would really like to play Civilization 4 as Croatia (just like I like playing as Yugoslavia and Serbia )

 

[Anima Croatorum]

Alrightee, here's 1.02a
-new sound theme

Download 1.02a

 

[LAnkou]

It's a Croatian mod,
Lankou's SuperCiv patch

it's a croatian mod, and Superciv is a patch?

about the music issue, what i would do is to get only instrumental music. however, that's quite hard to find it.

Anima, how did you made the song last only 35s? it would lower the size of my mods... (in general 3'35 long)

 

[Anima Croatorum]

All you need is a freeware util called Audacity
Download link

and lame_enc.dll

Download link

It can do anything you need with mp3. Record, edit, mix...

 

[Dr.Gonzo]

Anima, i have a nice midi of "U boj, u boj" from the Nikola Subic Zrinski opera (made by yours truly), I think it would be a much nicer Croatian background music, so maybe you could include it in the next version? Oh, and by the way, you may want to consider using Stjepan Radic instead of Ante Starcevic as a modern Croatian representative and a very positive historical figure to boot.

 

[srdjann]

I have never heard this song from 1.02a version before (it's Škoro, right? ) but I must say that it gets into ears easily...

I have another proposition, and that is that in new version you re-format song(s) to 96kbps (like I did in Yugoslavia mod) or maybe to 64kbps (I shall try to see what's the quality) so that would leave a space for adding another song and I would like to hear Prljavo kazaliste and "Zadnja ruza Hrvatska"...

 

[dinamo_18]

this is something of the topic you guys were recently talking about. ive read on a review site of civ4 that civs have attitudes towards other civc like that some civs would never attack a different civ. if this is the case could all of you civ builders do this when you were making your civc. if you could, could you than post what that other friendly civ is to croatia, and the other creaters please answer for yugoslavia and serbia.

 

[kettyo]

Also, the best equipped and most trained offensive-type units of the Soviets were called Mechanized Guard Squadrons or something like it

 

[srdjann]

Like I wrote on Serbia mod topic...

Well I released new version (1.1) in which I reduced songs to 64kbps and they still sound good but the file size is cutted a lot

The only thing which is still mistery to me is that the game will not accept unit and select orders if they are not 128kbps (zbun) - I reduced them to 64kbps as well but they didn't work so I had to get them back to 128kbps...

If you reduce your music to 64kbps maybe you can add another song (and yes I would like to be above mentioned "Zadnja ruza Hrvatska" )...

 

[srdjann]

this is something of the topic you guys were recently talking about. ive read on a review site of civ4 that civs have attitudes towards other civc like that some civs would never attack a different civ. if this is the case could all of you civ builders do this when you were making your civc. if you could, could you than post what that other friendly civ is to croatia, and the other creaters please answer for yugoslavia and serbia.

Well, I didn't know that, but anyway I don't think that is much important when you know that the only way to have, for an example Serbia and Croatia in one mod is to play LAnkou's Superciv mod, so maybe this is the question for him...

 

[Velja]

I cant believe you've put nazi song in Croatian mod. Untill now you were at least pretending to be normal.

 

[Anima Croatorum]

Anima, i have a nice midi of "U boj, u boj" from the Nikola Subic Zrinski opera (made by yours truly), I think it would be a much nicer Croatian background music, so maybe you could include it in the next version? Oh, and by the way, you may want to consider using Stjepan Radic instead of Ante Starcevic as a modern Croatian representative and a very positive historical figure to boot.

Sounds great, could you upload it on www.filegone.com and post a link?

Ante Starcevic is five times more positive than Stjepan Radic. Math cannot be beaten.

I have another proposition, and that is that in new version you re-format song(s) to 96kbps (like I did in Yugoslavia mod) or maybe to 64kbps (I shall try to see what's the quality) so that would leave a space for adding another song and I would like to hear Prljavo kazaliste and "Zadnja ruza Hrvatska"...

I'll try how it sounds, maybe even reduce volume a bit.

this is something of the topic you guys were recently talking about. ive read on a review site of civ4 that civs have attitudes towards other civc like that some civs would never attack a different civ. if this is the case could all of you civ builders do this when you were making your civc. if you could, could you than post what that other friendly civ is to croatia, and the other creaters please answer for yugoslavia and serbia.

Leaders do not have special preferance to other civs but to their civics, and that preferance is stated in first post. If you run Organized Religion Tomislav likes you better. You run Hereditary Rule Nikola likes you better. You run Nationhood Josip likes you better, you run Emancipation Ante likes you better.

 

[kettyo]

Airforce weakens the enemy, you use a tank or two to break their front lines, and then Garde brigades pour through the breakthrough and deep into hostile territory and wreak havoc. Sounds familiar?

It's like blitzkrieg tactic of german army in WWII.
Just with mechanized inf. instead of tank divisions.

 

[kettyo]

Could someone tell me where the name Croatia and Croat come from?
I think you've always called yourselves Hrvat and Hrvatska.
So why this foreign name?

BTW the same thing with us.
We call ourselves magyar and our country Magyarország but in the western world it's generally called Hungaria or Hungary, and hungarians.
A bit odd because we are not related to huns so it's confusing too.

 

[Shqype]

It's possible that I'm wrong , but this is what a Croation nationlist once told me:

In the early days of the Croation people (I assume under their first king, Tomislav, which apparently had a large army) , the 'soldiers' wore "ties." Thus the people recieved this name for their ties that they wore. Hrvat I believe is "tie" in Croatian. We (Albanians) use "kravat."

 

[Anima Croatorum]

Could someone tell me where the name Croatia and Croat come from?
I think you've always called yourselves Hrvat and Hrvatska.
So why this foreign name?

BTW the same thing with us.
We call ourselves magyar and our country Magyarország but in the western world it's generally called Hungaria or Hungary, and hungarians.
A bit odd because we are not related to huns so it's confusing too.

Well, here's how the mythology goes:
During the Persian conquest of Egypt all tribes allied with the Persian Empire were inscribed on a stone plate, among them were the Huravurdi/Haruvath. This original name was derived from either the word shepherd or friend. This tribal alliance lived in todays NE Iran and W Afghanistan. Pushed by the Mongols they left westwards and settled where Tanais(Don river in Russia) meets the sea. This stone plate was recovered at the site, it dates to 200AD and mentions the name Horoathos.

At this time the Horoathos meet the Antii(proto-Slavs) and they merge into a tribal alliance, proto-Croats. This part is more legend than fact, kinda like the Scythian theory of Magyar origin(or even the theory that extends to Sumeria).

Croata is merely latin of Horvat(which then became Hrvat). Basically, I dont see how anglophones could ever pronounce Hrvat or Hrvatska. So Croat and Croatia were imported from Latin into English.

In Croatian Hungary is Mađarska and Hungarians are Mađari(letter đ = gy), archaic name that was also used was Ugri and Ugarska, but that name is more political and was used for unionists(supporters of unifying and centralising Hungary, aristocracy), not ethnic Hungarians. Anyway, Hungarian is actually not equal to Magyar:

The word Hungarian has also a wider meaning, because – especially in the past – it referred to all inhabitants of the Kingdom of Hungary irrespective of their ethnicity (i.e. not only to the Magyars). Specifically, the Latin term natio hungarica referred to all nobles of the Kingdom of Hungary irrespective of their ethnicity.

Anyway, about the name origin it says:

The word derives from the old Slavic word og(&#1098r- for the proto-Magyars. Through Germanic languages, the word got into other European languages ((H)ungarus, (H)ungarn, Vengry etc.). The Slavic word is thought to be derived from the Bulgaro-Turkic Onogur, possibly because the proto-Magyars were neighbours (or confederates) of the Empire of the Onogurs in the 6th century, whose leading tribal union was called the "Onogurs" (meaning "ten tribes").

The H- in many languages (Hungarians, Hongrois, Hungarus etc.) is a later addition. It was taken over from the word "Huns", which was a similar semi-nomadic tribe living some 400 years earlier in present-day Hungary and having a similar way of life (or according to the older theories the people from which the Magyars arose). In ancient times, through the middle ages, and even today, the identification of Hungarians with the Huns has often occurred in history and literature, however this identification began to be disputed around the late 19th century, and is still a source of major controversy among scholars who insist that there could be no direct connection between the two.

Hun names like Attila and Réka are still popular among Hungarians, and forms derived from Latin Hungaria are used like in the racetrack Hungaroring (mostly due to the strong English language pressure in tourism and international matters).

Magyar is today simply the Hungarian word for Hungarian. In English and many other languages, however, Magyar is used instead of Hungarian in certain (mainly historical) contexts, usually to distinguish ethnic Hungarians (i.e. the Magyars) from the other nationalities living in the Hungarian kingdom.

I've also read one theory where Hungarian is derived of Ungvar.

 

[Anima Croatorum]

It's possible that I'm wrong , but this is what a Croation nationlist once told me:

In the early days of the Croation people (I assume under their first king, Tomislav, which apparently had a large army) , the 'soldiers' wore "ties." Thus the people recieved this name for their ties that they wore. Hrvat I believe is "tie" in Croatian. We (Albanians) use "kravat."

About the tie. There is no indication that it was worn that early. First records about are from 16ct. And it was made popular in the centuries that followed. While there is no doubt that we invented the tie, the word itself might predate what it means now. There was a very similar french word that was used for ornaments worn on shirts and the word was later used to describe ties after Croatian mercinaries popularized them in Louis XIV's France.