chriseay
The Master Trader
I'm going to play 20 turns now, start with ag and then fishing. After that I'll start masonry (if I even get that far). A report will be posted in probably half an hour or so.
CS-1 - Farmer's Paradise
- Thread starter chriseay
- Start date
conquer_dude
Imperial Slave
lurker's comment: Will be lurking. This looks interesting.
chriseay
The Master Trader
Turn 1/4000 BC - Settle in place, and it pops the hut. It gives us a map of the ocean to the south, including another continent. Agriculture is 9 turns, and I start another scout.
Turn 5/3840 BC - Pop archery from a hut!! This is good, because we didn't have time to go for this tech for a very long time.
Turn 6/3800 BC - Border of Moscow pop. Growth and ag in 4 turns, scout in 5.
Turn 10/3680 BC - Agriculture comes in, go for fishing, 5 turns. MM to the 2nd flood plains, taking it down to 4 turns.
Turn 11/3640 BC - 2nd scout comes in, start on a warrior but will change that when fishing comes in. Those workboats, at least one are my priority.
Turn 12/3600 BC - Hinduism founded in a distant land, before buddhism. Doesn't happen very often. Pop a hut and get 44 gold.
Turn 15/3480 BC - Fishing in, start Masonry, 9 turns. Workboat is 15 turns. Growth in 3.
Turn 17/3400 BC - Pop a hut, 84 gold.
Turn 18/3360 BC - Buddhism finally. Still haven't met any neighbors, it looks like we are probably alone.
Turn 19/3320 BC - 35 gold from a hut.
Turn 20/3280 BC - Both of our scouts defeat wolves, I've got them both healing. East is 2 turns, west 3. Feel free to move them before healing is done.
Some looks at the empire, first the explored area:
Moscow:
Some of the civs we're up against, though we haven't met them yet:
So we're researching masonry, 4 more turns. I think after that, we'll need mysticism. Moscow is building a workboat, with a queued half built warrior. It should build that I think, barbs will show up soon. Then it's either another workboat or a worker. We'll also need a second city I think before we even think about wonders I think, though I'm not sure. I'll leave that up to team. Good luck to beestar, I guess 15 turns sounds about right.
Turn 5/3840 BC - Pop archery from a hut!! This is good, because we didn't have time to go for this tech for a very long time.
Turn 6/3800 BC - Border of Moscow pop. Growth and ag in 4 turns, scout in 5.
Turn 10/3680 BC - Agriculture comes in, go for fishing, 5 turns. MM to the 2nd flood plains, taking it down to 4 turns.
Turn 11/3640 BC - 2nd scout comes in, start on a warrior but will change that when fishing comes in. Those workboats, at least one are my priority.
Turn 12/3600 BC - Hinduism founded in a distant land, before buddhism. Doesn't happen very often. Pop a hut and get 44 gold.
Turn 15/3480 BC - Fishing in, start Masonry, 9 turns. Workboat is 15 turns. Growth in 3.
Turn 17/3400 BC - Pop a hut, 84 gold.
Turn 18/3360 BC - Buddhism finally. Still haven't met any neighbors, it looks like we are probably alone.
Turn 19/3320 BC - 35 gold from a hut.
Turn 20/3280 BC - Both of our scouts defeat wolves, I've got them both healing. East is 2 turns, west 3. Feel free to move them before healing is done.
Some looks at the empire, first the explored area:
Moscow:
Some of the civs we're up against, though we haven't met them yet:
So we're researching masonry, 4 more turns. I think after that, we'll need mysticism. Moscow is building a workboat, with a queued half built warrior. It should build that I think, barbs will show up soon. Then it's either another workboat or a worker. We'll also need a second city I think before we even think about wonders I think, though I'm not sure. I'll leave that up to team. Good luck to beestar, I guess 15 turns sounds about right.
beestar
subdeity
Pretty unexciting so far.
Turn Log (some dates may be off a bit, need to take more detailed notes even during the boring turns)
Turn 20/3280 BC - Decided to move the scouts after all. Marble spotted to the far northeast - doesn't seem worth it to plunk a city down for Wonder acceleration, not for a while yet anyway.
Turn 21/3240 BC -
Turn 22/3200 BC -
Turn 23/3160 BC - Masonry is discovered, Mysticism is next.
Turn 24/3120 BC - The western scout popped a goody hut for experience (blech) and picked Woodsman I & II for greater mobility
Turn 25/3080 BC - Workboat finished and sails out to fish the clams, queued warrior restarted now.
Turn 26/3040 BC - "Congratulations! You have gained access to your first food resource (Clam)!" Unfortunately, it's not exactly health we're worried about ... Stone sighted to the far west.
Turn 27/3000 BC - Moscow grows to size 4.
Turn 28/2960BC - I had turned the eastern scout back toward the homelands to check if we'd missed any resources, and to serve as a long range barbarian sentry. Found cow and wheat to the east in some of the previously hidden area. Maybe a good future production-city site since it has food bonuses and lots of grassland hills. Completed our first warrior and sent him north to fogbust and scout the last pieces of unknown territory. Started on a worker.
Turn 29/2920BC - Mysticism founded, next up is Meditation.
Turn 30/2880BC - Changed mind about worker because there wouldn't be anything for him to do: he could start building farms, but we're close to our happiness limit and therefore don't really need any more food. Similarly, we'll need bronzeworking before chopping is possible. Instead, I started building a second warrior for defense. In retrospect this maybe should have been an archer.
Turn 31/2840BC -
Turn 32/2800BC - Good news - friendly villagers to the west gave us Sailing! Maybe our paradisical farmers will also be lighthouse-guided fishermen. Finished 2nd warrior, back to worker. Haven't figured out what to do with the 2nd warrior yet - for now he's military policy to improve city happiness? Shuffled citizens to the floodplains to maximize commerce while the worker is being built.
Turn 33/2760BC -
Turn 34/2720BC - Our warrior killed a lion
Turn 35/2680BC - Scout to the east is pushing back the fog of war. to the north, a warrior heading out be a long range sentry and to explore the last few scraps of black. To the west, our scout is fortified waiting for a lion which is just off screen to the west. Are there any more tiles out there, or is that the edge of the island?
Turn Log (some dates may be off a bit, need to take more detailed notes even during the boring turns)
Turn 20/3280 BC - Decided to move the scouts after all. Marble spotted to the far northeast - doesn't seem worth it to plunk a city down for Wonder acceleration, not for a while yet anyway.
Turn 21/3240 BC -
Turn 22/3200 BC -
Turn 23/3160 BC - Masonry is discovered, Mysticism is next.
Turn 24/3120 BC - The western scout popped a goody hut for experience (blech) and picked Woodsman I & II for greater mobility
Turn 25/3080 BC - Workboat finished and sails out to fish the clams, queued warrior restarted now.
Turn 26/3040 BC - "Congratulations! You have gained access to your first food resource (Clam)!" Unfortunately, it's not exactly health we're worried about ... Stone sighted to the far west.
Turn 27/3000 BC - Moscow grows to size 4.
Turn 28/2960BC - I had turned the eastern scout back toward the homelands to check if we'd missed any resources, and to serve as a long range barbarian sentry. Found cow and wheat to the east in some of the previously hidden area. Maybe a good future production-city site since it has food bonuses and lots of grassland hills. Completed our first warrior and sent him north to fogbust and scout the last pieces of unknown territory. Started on a worker.
Turn 29/2920BC - Mysticism founded, next up is Meditation.
Turn 30/2880BC - Changed mind about worker because there wouldn't be anything for him to do: he could start building farms, but we're close to our happiness limit and therefore don't really need any more food. Similarly, we'll need bronzeworking before chopping is possible. Instead, I started building a second warrior for defense. In retrospect this maybe should have been an archer.
Turn 31/2840BC -
Turn 32/2800BC - Good news - friendly villagers to the west gave us Sailing! Maybe our paradisical farmers will also be lighthouse-guided fishermen. Finished 2nd warrior, back to worker. Haven't figured out what to do with the 2nd warrior yet - for now he's military policy to improve city happiness? Shuffled citizens to the floodplains to maximize commerce while the worker is being built.
Turn 33/2760BC -
Turn 34/2720BC - Our warrior killed a lion
Turn 35/2680BC - Scout to the east is pushing back the fog of war. to the north, a warrior heading out be a long range sentry and to explore the last few scraps of black. To the west, our scout is fortified waiting for a lion which is just off screen to the west. Are there any more tiles out there, or is that the edge of the island?
beestar
subdeity
It looks like we're alone on a northern island. Here's the Globe View:
I was unable to find any other civs on the F9 screen. Looks like us, India, Greece, Japan, and the Americans as noted by chriseay. Two unknowns with lousy population growth / culture.
City view:
I think we're going to be severely happiness-constrained. The only visible happiness resources are Furs, and those are (as always) on lousy tiles. Neither do we have a religion to bring us happiness, and due to our isolation it's not likely that anyone is going to spread one to us any time soon.
I'd recommend getting Bronze Working soon. It would be valuable to be able to see copper, chop trees, and enable Slavery (which would alleviate some of our growth problems)
I think Morred is next ...
I was unable to find any other civs on the F9 screen. Looks like us, India, Greece, Japan, and the Americans as noted by chriseay. Two unknowns with lousy population growth / culture.
City view:
I think we're going to be severely happiness-constrained. The only visible happiness resources are Furs, and those are (as always) on lousy tiles. Neither do we have a religion to bring us happiness, and due to our isolation it's not likely that anyone is going to spread one to us any time soon.
I'd recommend getting Bronze Working soon. It would be valuable to be able to see copper, chop trees, and enable Slavery (which would alleviate some of our growth problems)
I think Morred is next ...
chriseay
The Master Trader
It looks like there are a couple of calendar resources for happies too, so we'll have to go for that. Plus, if we get pyramids and go rep, as per the plan, we'll get plus three 
in our 5 largest cities. It'll be a little while before we have more than 5 cities. We'll have to try our hands at dotmapping here soon, see what everyone thinks.
On the worker and the farming, well we gotta farm 'em sooner or later... We could always go for another workboat first though if we want, there is that second seafood.
Morred, I guess 15 turns for you too, but if you only want to play ten, feel free. I'm still not sure how many turns...never been an SG captain before.
Roster:
chriseay
beestar - Just played
Morred - Up now!
Woebearer - On deck
Sina
Snaproll
in our 5 largest cities. It'll be a little while before we have more than 5 cities. We'll have to try our hands at dotmapping here soon, see what everyone thinks.On the worker and the farming, well we gotta farm 'em sooner or later... We could always go for another workboat first though if we want, there is that second seafood.
Morred, I guess 15 turns for you too, but if you only want to play ten, feel free. I'm still not sure how many turns...never been an SG captain before.
Roster:
chriseay
beestar - Just played
Morred - Up now!
Woebearer - On deck
Sina
Snaproll
beestar
subdeity
chriseay said:It looks like there are a couple of calendar resources for happies too, so we'll have to go for that. Plus, if we get pyramids and go rep, as per the plan, we'll get plus three
Good points all. I subconsciously ignored the spices etc. - somehow I assumed we won't be getting Calendar anytime soon
Morred
Warlord
As far as I know, the roster to make things even is 40-20-15 and then 10 from then onwards. So, according to that I should play 40 turns! 
Hehe, but how about we go 20-15-20-15-15 and then ten from then onwards(The first 20-15 have already been played)?
I should get to this tonight, meanwhile, I'll be strategising and dotmapping
Edit 1 (Yes, I'm planning multiple edits): We've already researched Masonry, which makes our course clear. We need to build the Stonehenge ASAP (or even sooner) and a whopping 30 turns later finish the Oracle (30 turns is the time it takes for us to pop Moses). Eww, this is going to be nasty folks.
Edit 2: Has this occured to anybody but me that perhaps Moses would rather research Monotheism/Theology than CoL? Testing time!
Edit 3: We're in trouble, not only does Moses prefer Monotheism, he also prefers theology! For any hope of early civil service, we're going to need to research Code of Laws manually, or perhaps...hmm, more testing needed.
Edit 4: Nope, I wanted to check how other Great People valued Civil Service, and the answer is hardly at all, it rates as a 6 in priority. Mysticism and every other religion except Philosophy and CoL rates a 10. Philosophy is a 3, and CoL is a 7. Any suggestions for what we can do? I think we pretty much have to kiss Early civil service goodbye, there is one other option. And that is running two scientists through a Library and make sure there are no other available priority techs and have them research Civil Service.
Well, I checked through it, and by the time we researched all the techs to have Civil service by itself, it would be easier just to research it, any brilliant ideas? Otherwise I think we'll have to forgo the early Civil Service.
Edit 5 (Hopefully the lats one): Here is a more extensive dotmap, and it should last use for quite a while, it pretty much covers our whole island too.
Hehe, but how about we go 20-15-20-15-15 and then ten from then onwards(The first 20-15 have already been played)?
I should get to this tonight, meanwhile, I'll be strategising and dotmapping
Edit 1 (Yes, I'm planning multiple edits): We've already researched Masonry, which makes our course clear. We need to build the Stonehenge ASAP (or even sooner) and a whopping 30 turns later finish the Oracle (30 turns is the time it takes for us to pop Moses). Eww, this is going to be nasty folks.
Edit 2: Has this occured to anybody but me that perhaps Moses would rather research Monotheism/Theology than CoL? Testing time!
Edit 3: We're in trouble, not only does Moses prefer Monotheism, he also prefers theology! For any hope of early civil service, we're going to need to research Code of Laws manually, or perhaps...hmm, more testing needed.
Edit 4: Nope, I wanted to check how other Great People valued Civil Service, and the answer is hardly at all, it rates as a 6 in priority. Mysticism and every other religion except Philosophy and CoL rates a 10. Philosophy is a 3, and CoL is a 7. Any suggestions for what we can do? I think we pretty much have to kiss Early civil service goodbye, there is one other option. And that is running two scientists through a Library and make sure there are no other available priority techs and have them research Civil Service.
Well, I checked through it, and by the time we researched all the techs to have Civil service by itself, it would be easier just to research it, any brilliant ideas? Otherwise I think we'll have to forgo the early Civil Service.
Edit 5 (Hopefully the lats one): Here is a more extensive dotmap, and it should last use for quite a while, it pretty much covers our whole island too.
Morred
Warlord
Okay guys, I would edit again, but I feel this warrants a new posting. I am seriously suggesting a restart here.
We really (and I mean *really*) screwed up on the first couple of sets of turns. We're building a *worker* at around 2000 BC, when it's at four population. You want your first settler out by then. My gut feeling says that both the Oracle and Stonehenge will be gone before we even blink and we still have to research CoL manually. Chances are we'll try for the Oracle and if we get it, it will be 1000 BC and we'll still only have one city.
We didn't set our research path properly, nobody agreed to anything in the end, and from what I glanced at, I saw a research queue, which is a really bad thing to do in SG games.
I'll leave the executive decision up to the rest of you, but I'd be surprised if we even managed to nab one of the three wonders, or get a second city online by 1000 BC.
We really (and I mean *really*) screwed up on the first couple of sets of turns. We're building a *worker* at around 2000 BC, when it's at four population. You want your first settler out by then. My gut feeling says that both the Oracle and Stonehenge will be gone before we even blink and we still have to research CoL manually. Chances are we'll try for the Oracle and if we get it, it will be 1000 BC and we'll still only have one city.
We didn't set our research path properly, nobody agreed to anything in the end, and from what I glanced at, I saw a research queue, which is a really bad thing to do in SG games.
I'll leave the executive decision up to the rest of you, but I'd be surprised if we even managed to nab one of the three wonders, or get a second city online by 1000 BC.
chriseay
The Master Trader
I'm ok with a restart, but our conundrum still remains. To get Civil Service like I want to in this variant, we can't get pyramids. That's quite obvious at this point. On the other hand, building a worker now is ok, because we've got workboat(s?) and we are by ourselves, so we have a little longer to get things going. This is going to be hard if we are going to stick to the variant and try to farm everything as soon as we can.
I'll leave it up to the team, but if we do restart at least I can play with how many turns we play to make things right
. Morred, go ahead and play 20, then we'll do 15 15 before going on to 10, if that's what will even things out.
I'll leave it up to the team, but if we do restart at least I can play with how many turns we play to make things right
. Morred, go ahead and play 20, then we'll do 15 15 before going on to 10, if that's what will even things out.Sina
Warlord
I have to agree with Morred.
The research should have been more like Agri, BW, Mysticism, Masonry,Archery, if no copper and then towards the Oracle. If we want to get those wonders, we need to chop a big part of them.
We also need to get a settler out before starting on wonder building. So early production maybe worker, warrior, warrior, settler, stonehenge, chopped worker, military unit (archer or axe, depends on copper), Pyramids (several chops), military unit, 2nd settler, Oracle.
We will need lots of luck to get all this done, In fact, I don't think we'll get the Oracle at all with this and are in danger of losing the Pyramids as well.
The research should have been more like Agri, BW, Mysticism, Masonry,Archery, if no copper and then towards the Oracle. If we want to get those wonders, we need to chop a big part of them.
We also need to get a settler out before starting on wonder building. So early production maybe worker, warrior, warrior, settler, stonehenge, chopped worker, military unit (archer or axe, depends on copper), Pyramids (several chops), military unit, 2nd settler, Oracle.
We will need lots of luck to get all this done, In fact, I don't think we'll get the Oracle at all with this and are in danger of losing the Pyramids as well.
beestar
subdeity
Well, the research queue is a suggestion - feel free to change it.
I would actually like to see the beginning played out. If we lose the early wonders, it would be valuable to learn when they fall and how fast we would have to be to have gotten them. Also, at Prince level, I don't think we'll necessarily die if we fail to get Pyramids, it will just make being a farming paradise more challenging ...
If we do restart, let's discuss again what's allowable in our path to Civil Service.
I would actually like to see the beginning played out. If we lose the early wonders, it would be valuable to learn when they fall and how fast we would have to be to have gotten them. Also, at Prince level, I don't think we'll necessarily die if we fail to get Pyramids, it will just make being a farming paradise more challenging ...
If we do restart, let's discuss again what's allowable in our path to Civil Service.
Morred
Warlord
Well, I also wanted to work out exactly when the wonders fell, and we lost Oracle in around 1200 BC (perhaps earlier). All I know is that if we finished the worker, built a work boat and then started on Oracle we *would* finish it, howevere CoL would not be completely researched yet.
So guys, we're going to have to choose between Pyramids or a quick Civil Service, I'd personally lean toward Pyramids, but once again up to the rest of the team.
So guys, we're going to have to choose between Pyramids or a quick Civil Service, I'd personally lean toward Pyramids, but once again up to the rest of the team.
chriseay
The Master Trader
Morred said:
Well I'm game for either, but my idea of the variant was as many farms as possible, and to do this we need that quick Civil Service. Unfortunately, it looks like that precludes us from pyramids, which is really a kick in the balls because we'll surely be running a lot of specialists, and that extra science will be needed.
Truthfully, when I thought up this variant, pyramids hadn't even entered my mind. I almost never go for them in personal games, as they are just such a huge early game investment, and to lose them can be crippling. Let's think this through a little and then we can either restart (as this is a kinda crappy start anyway) or we can try to play it through.
Edit: On what's allowable on the path to CS, well, anything is. I don't want a strict beeline, I just want to get it as fast as possible using all possible means (ie, Oracle, GP).
Sina
Warlord
I've just done a test run. I was alone on a continent and had a very good start. 2 grassland hills, 1 plains hill (with wine), 1 plains forrest, 1 irrigated plains wheat, 1 oasis and 2 floodplains.
I got Stonehenge, Oracle and Pyramids. Moses discovered CS (nearly) for me. I had CS by 1240BC and the Pyramids in 500BC. I had also 2 more cities up (both settlers produced in capital).
Research was: Agriculture, Mysticism, BW, Meditation, Archery, Priesthood, Writing, Polytheism, CS after Moses, Masonry
Production: worker, warrior, warrior, revolution, warrior, settler (1 chop), Stonehenge (got it in 1920BC), Oracle (1 chop, 1520BC), take CoL as free tech, Archer, Archer, Archer, Moses in 1240BC, Settler, Pyramids (5 chops,500BC).
Admittedly the start was very good as it gave good production, food and commerce.
I stopped it growing on size 5, but it could have grown to 6 had I adopted Confucianism. (I founded that and Buddhism). I stopped it at 5 to tone down the too good start a bit.
I got Stonehenge, Oracle and Pyramids. Moses discovered CS (nearly) for me. I had CS by 1240BC and the Pyramids in 500BC. I had also 2 more cities up (both settlers produced in capital).
Research was: Agriculture, Mysticism, BW, Meditation, Archery, Priesthood, Writing, Polytheism, CS after Moses, Masonry
Production: worker, warrior, warrior, revolution, warrior, settler (1 chop), Stonehenge (got it in 1920BC), Oracle (1 chop, 1520BC), take CoL as free tech, Archer, Archer, Archer, Moses in 1240BC, Settler, Pyramids (5 chops,500BC).
Admittedly the start was very good as it gave good production, food and commerce.
I stopped it growing on size 5, but it could have grown to 6 had I adopted Confucianism. (I founded that and Buddhism). I stopped it at 5 to tone down the too good start a bit.
Morred
Warlord
The problem with chopping settlers and wonders, is that we really need the production boost of Forests if they are not next to a river.
Otherwise, it looks good
Otherwise, it looks good
Morred
Warlord
Oh and, what's the update, are we restarting?
chriseay
The Master Trader
Sure we'll do a restart I suppose. I'll start it off sometime tonight, though I think since beestar and I have already played, we'll start the game off with Morred and just go through the roster from there. Everyone ok with that? Hopefully we get a little better start this time.
Quick question, because this seems to partially solve our problems.....did these chops come from within city radii, or were you able to chop useless forests to save that production?
Sina said:
Quick question, because this seems to partially solve our problems.....did these chops come from within city radii, or were you able to chop useless forests to save that production?
Sina
Warlord
chriseay said:
I choped 2 hills and 3 river grassland forrests in the fat cross. Those I would chop anyway sooner or later.
The rest came from outside the fat cross.
But that particular start was really good. I even had stone just outside the fat cross which I didn't connect.
I wouldn't bet on being able to pull that of everytime. I think it's the best timing for the best chance though.
chriseay
The Master Trader
Sina said:
Hmm excellent, those hills would have to be chopped, as mines are always better than forest hills, and I'm sure at least one of those river forests would have to be chopped for an irrigation channel. All three would probably get chopped in the long run, because the commerce from them will be needed. Hope we get a start similar when I roll it tonight.
Edit: I just came to the conclusion from re reading Sina's test that probably one of the problems with our original start was the two seafood resources and my wanting a workboat first in that case. I think to pull this off we'll need that worker really early no matter what. That's my mistake. The game played me well.
