ct3 - Chieftain Training Day (for newbies only)

[Padma]

A couple more common standards used in Succession Games:

Do not automate workers! At least in the early stages of the game. By the time we reach the Industrial or Modern Age, we may have enough that we want to quit micro-managing all of them. But at this stage, we can use our human brains to do things better than the AI.

Do not use city governors! Again, we know the AI is stupid. An idiot-savant, if you will. Why should we let it control our cities? Yes, it means some micro-management on our part, but it's really not that bad.

Do not put units on long go-tos! Go-to commands that run past the end of your turn, anyway. There's nothing more disconcerting than starting your turn, and seeing a bunch of units scurry around by themselves, with you having no idea of where they are going, or why. Occasionally it is alright, if you leave clear explanations in your turn write-up: "The Pikeman near New York is heading for Boston to handle MP duty."

No Reloads! It is okay to reload from an autosave if you make a mistake, like your mouse slips when you are moving a unit, or you can legitimately say "Wait! I forgot to do X". Reloading because you got a combat result you didn't like, or to spy on your enemies and then reload so you don't actually pay for the spy mission, is, shall we say, frowned upon. Those caught doing so take a serious "reputation hit" among other SG-ers.

 

[Chieftess]

Ok, remember, wait until I make comments on the previous 20 turns (and the game) before playing. Just a few comments right now.

Tech: We researched Warrior Code and are on mysticism. Our civ is Persia, so their UU (Ultimate Unit) is the Immortal (requires Iron Working). We should have gone the Bronze Working --> Iron Working tract. Why? We would be able to build Immotals (The best unit in the acient era), and we already have Bronze Working. Once we have Iron Working, it will show the Iron resource on the map. That will help determine where we need to expand. We're apparently with several other civs that have early UUs, so that means there will be a lot of early GAs (Golden Ages).

City Build: We are going for OCP (Optimal City Placement), which is debatable for our starting location. On the one hand, we're stuck in a peninsulla, so the more cities, the better. But, there is not a lot of production, and we will need one city (atleast) to be our main unit production city.

City Spread Strategies -

OCP - Optimal City Placement. This is placing cities so that they only have, preferablly, a 1 tile overlap. bamspeedy has an article on this strategy in the War Academy. The idea is to create as many 20-tile metropolises as possible. (Each city has 21 tiles in its' city radius).

Advantages: Use of all of your terrain (if possible) by the time Industrialization comes (rails).

Disadvantages: Tiles will be wasted until you get medicine (hospitals). Cities in mountainous areas won't be able to grow and use all 20 (or 21) tiles). It's also best used on grasslands with some hills/mountains. Corruption also inscreases as you go further from your capital. These 2nd ring, and 3rd ring cities (cities around your capital is called a 'ring') will have more corruption than the inner 1st ring.

Tight Build: This is a way to create an ancient era powerhouse. The idea here is to build cities every 2 tiles away from your capital in order to maximize shields.

Advantages: Tiles aren't wasted. Great for a tight spot, such as mountainous terrain. There's also less corruption.

Disadvantages: It can prevent a city from growing larger (size 7+) later in the game.

The city build pattern looks like this:

C**C**C
*******
*******
C**C**C
*******
*******
C**C**C

ISC - Infinite City Sprawl (a.k.a., the Black Arts of Civ gaming). This is a strategy that only the elite players (Aeson, Sir Pleb, Bamspeedy) have been able to perfect. You can find their strategy in the HOF discussion thread in the Civ3 General forum. This strategy involves building cities with 1 space inbetween, and giving each city only 3 tiles (other than its' own) to work with.

Advantages: The ability to have 100s of cities by 1,000 AD (lots of science, too). In the earlier version of the game (1.07f), the AI counted cities as power, so you could bully the AI with a massive amount of cities.

Disadvantages: Something always has to give, and in the case of Aeson's game, it was culture. So, expect several culture flips. This is also a strategy that's not 'for the faint of heart', and requires long hours at the computer.

The layout looks like this:

*C*C*C*C
********
*C*C*C*C
********
*C*C*C*C
********

(more comments coming as I look at the save)

Remember, don't play until I make comments on Padma's game.

 

[Padma]

Aaugh!!! Iron Working --> Immortals!

Arguably the dumbest thing I did on my turn!

 

[BoBtheBUILDER]

What kind of science advances are we looking to prioritize? I think that, as Chieftess noted, Iron Working should be high on the list. I'm not sure what the other advance we started with was, but maybe researching The Wheel would be in order after Iron Working so we can figure out where the horsies are. Any other thoughts?

 

[Padma]

Actually, Bob, that had been my thought - to go for the Wheel and horses. But I got sloppy and let the AI pick the next research.

mad: Bad Padma! Bad! Bad! )

 

[stwils]

I was wondering why our science is set so low. Wouldn't turning it up to 90% help us get iron working sooner?

Just wondering.

Actually I am terrified knowing I am next after Archer

stwils

 

[Archer 007]

Just got in from school. About to start.Should have it up within about an hour.

 

[stwils]

Archer, I think Chieftess said for us to wait until she finished posting her comments on Padma's game.

See her last post to us.

stwils

 

[Padma]

Originally posted by stwils
I was wondering why our science is set so low. Wouldn't turning it up to 90% help us get iron working sooner?

Just wondering.

As I mentioned in my self-critique, this was possibly a bad move on my part. My justification is only that I am used to playing on higher levels (and earlier patches) where it is nearly impossible to maintain tech parity with the AI. Therefore, it is common to turn off research, and just trade with the AI for the techs you want.

I'll abide by Chieftess' judgement. It won't be the first, or worst, that I've done.

 

[Archer 007]

Alright, I'll wait a while.

 

[stwils]

I have read that Word Pad works with Civ3 if you use alt tab.

But then, if you save it at the end of the first turn, it goes away. (I have tried a little practice run.)

So do you wait until your 10 turns are over then save it? And then how do you send it to the forum?

So much to learn, so little time...

stwils

 

[Padma]

Originally posted by stwils
I have read that Word Pad works with Civ3 if you use alt tab.

But then, if you save it at the end of the first turn, it goes away. (I have tried a little practice run.)

So do you wait until your 10 turns are over then save it? And then how do you send it to the forum?

So much to learn, so little time...

stwils

I use Notepad. Actually, I usually have this forum up, as well as Notepad, when I start Civ3.

After (or even during) each turn, I Alt-Tab to Notepad, and enter the information for the current turn. Then I Alt-Tab back to Civ3, and hit Return to play the next turn. (I don't usually save the Notepad file - unless the round runs across more than one session.)

Once I am done with my round, I open up the forum page, Click "Post Reply", and copy and paste the contents from Notepad to the editing window. Then I just click "Submit Reply".

It's really not hard, once you get used to it.

Some, usually those with "less robust" systems, will keep a paper & pencil record of their turns, and then type it into the Reply Box when they are done and they go backon-line.

 

[Chieftess]

ok, about to load and critique save.

 

[Chieftess]

Critique:

Aside from the mentioned ...

Science can be pushed up (even all the way to 100% for -1 gpt). But, it's good to save some gold for deals and embassies. I would go with 60%.

We should be researching Iron Working.

So far, so good for the first 20 turns. Archer007, you're up! Remember to follow Padma's dot diagram. Also, build towards the Zulus and Babylonians, since it denies them land, and we can build behind us, later.

 

[Archer 007]

Finished.

 

[Chieftess]

Archer_007, where's your turn write up?

Again, a write-up would go like this:

Turn 0 - 3000BC (preturn)

Assessed situation. Tried diplomacy w/Zulus and Babylonians - had nothing.

Turn 1 - 2950BC

Explored to the east - more jungle. Worker building road to the SE. growth in 2. Diplomacy with Zulus and Babs (Babylonians). Zulus give us a worker for 20 gold!

Turn 2 - 2900BC

Zulu Impi seen approaching our city. Zulus are annoyed (were cautious). Babs are also cautious.

...

That's the general idea.

 

[Chieftess]

Argh, it wouldn't accept my critique because of too many images. I'll try to have the writeup before I go to work (1:15pm EDT my time). If not, I'll have it up in 5-6 hours...

 

[Archer 007]

Sorry about that. My computer froze up just as i finushed typing it. Didn't have time before i went to school. Anyway, here it is.
Turn 1-2950 BC- Talk to Zulu. Are asked to withdraw from there territory.
Turn 2-2900 BC- Get 25 gold from hut.
Turn 3-2850 BC- Settler complete.
Turn 4-2800 BC- Nothing.
Turn 5-2750 BC- Make contact with Babylonians.
Turn 6-2710 BC- Nothing.
Turn 7-2670 BC- Pasargadae founded at green dot.
Turn 8-2630 BC- Road from Persepolis to Pasargadae started. Warrior fortifies to protect future city site (at pink dot).
Turn 9-2590 BC- Babylonian request us to leave there territory.
Turn 10- 2550 BC- Spearmen conplete in Persepolis. Wealth started (in 4 turns switch
to Settler. Buy The Wheel and Mysticism for 98 gold.

 

[Chieftess]

Ok, I'll look at your writeup, then write the critique for the game save.

Diplomacy - Did you check every turn? It didn't say in your write up. Catching a 'sleeping worker' in their capital can cripple the other civ.

Turn 3-2850 BC- Settler complete.
Turn 4-2800 BC- Nothing.
Turn 5-2750 BC- Make contact with Babylonians.
Turn 6-2710 BC- Nothing.

Did the worker do anything? Granted, this is just the start of the game.

Turn 10- 2550 BC- Spearmen conplete in Persepolis. Wealth started (in 4 turns switch
to Settler. Buy The Wheel and Mysticism for 98 gold.

Never switch to wealth this early in the game. A spearman (defense for Pasagardae) can be built in 4 turns. Like I said above: Spearman, then Settler.

Trade deals. Ok, no GPT, but... did you try to renegotiate the deal? Sometimes, you can get techs for less. (i.e., instead of 98 gold, it could have be 75). Keep going down in price until they won't accept. (i.e., try 75, 85, 80, 77, 78, 79 - supposing they wanted 79 minimum).

Who did you get them from? The Zulus? Babylon? Knowing what techs each civ has is important, especially if they're trigger happy.

I also looked a little closer at the map, and saw that 2nd city was founded on a bonus tile. In chieftain mode, it's ok, but on higher levels, it's a bit of a no-no. Why? You lose that bonus shield. (granted, I've had cities surronded by 7-10 bonus shields!).

 

[Archer 007]

The worker was mining up until turn 6.
Bought tech from Zulu. 98 was the lowest they would take.
And one spearman was all we needed, and it added a bit o gold to the bank.