ct3 - Chieftain Training Day (for newbies only)

[stwils]

Thanks, mcdan, for your good comments. Unfortunately I was posting the save at the same time you must have been posting your thoughts. So I did not get the benefit of them.

Here are some things I tried to do/or did during "my 10 turns."

Got Astronomy fairly soon and headed for Navigation

Built Pricesylvania in Hamadon on the forest game

Built galleys, caravels, catapults, and immortals hoping they can all get together and go "over there."

Now in a little while I will write up my save. My eyes are blurry...

stwils

 

[mcdan]

Will study your post and save later - but with just a quick look at your save- it is terrific to finally see caravels! I think caravels cannot travel in ocean but defense!

 

[stwils]

Xerxes - 1070AD

Preturn -970ad
Most cities are doing all right, but some have 0 growth
Changed Sidon's citizen to produce more shields, same food
In Sardis - set citizen for better production
Samaria - 0 growth. How can we get this little island to grow? I left it set to Temple hoping our border will expand to include the whale
Ergili- changed citizen to produce 1 food, 3 shields,5 gold
Tarsus is size 12 and will grow in 9999 turns. (I just smiled and went on as if I knew what to do about that. )
*** Pressed Enter:
Bapedi gets library. set to settler. They all have disease
Sidon produces worker. set to immortal
Sardis says "We love the Emperor."

Turn#1 980ad
Sardis worker to mountain
4 workers near Ulundi road
2 workers east of Ulundi irrigate
3 Sidon workers road
Worker north of somewhere does something ??? (^$#^%$#)
Our galley moves several turns ALL BY ITSELF near Pompey

*** Enter
Science advisor says we have Education. Now we go for Astronomy
Pasagardae finishes courthouse. set to immortal in 3 turns

Turn#2 990ad
Babylon worker roads
Sardis worker mines
Ergili worker moves to desert near irrigated land
2 Gordium workers road
3 Sidon workers move to plains
Other Sidon worker roads near coast
Hamadon worker moves south to build road ahead of settler
I move our galley back nearer Knossus

**** Enter
Hamadon produces settler

Turn#3 1000ad
Hamadon settler moves south
Hamadon worker roads
3 workers near Zimbabwe road
4 workers near Ulundi clear forest (or was it jungle?)
2 workers e of Ulundi move to jungle
2 other workers join them
1 worker w of Ulundi irrigates
2 workers in Sidon road
1 worker mines
galley moves back toward Gnossos

*** Enter
Susa produces courthouse. set to immortal

Turn#4 1010ad
Worker north of Babylon moves se toward mountain
2 workers north east of Zimbabwe road
4 Ulundi workers road in Jungle
worker in Bapedi moves south
2 Sidon workers mine
1 Sidon worker moves north
Settler in Hamadon moves south
galley moves west

*** Pasargardae has immortal. set to catapult (to go on a galley)
Gordium produces Cathedral. set to musketman

Turn#5 1020ad
2 workers norht from Zimb. go toward Pasargae
3 workers move to jungle north of Tarsus
I move Science slider to 80% to get Astronomy in 3 turns
worker north of Ergili roads
worker at jungle spices near Bapedi roads
worker south of Babylon roads
Immortal in Pasargae is fortified
4 workers in Sidon mine
Settler in Hamadon moves east

***Enter
We get THE GREAT LIBRARY in Zimb. set to University
Tarsus gets Harbor. set to galley
News comes that the Greeks have the Hanging Gardens. Oh well. They need to have something.

Turn#6 1030ad
4 Ulundi workers clear jungle
3 Tarsus workers road
2 workers norht of Zimb. irrigate
Hamadon worker moves to horse
Hamadon settler goes to forest game

***Enter
Pasagardae produces catapult. set to another
Susa builds immortal. set to galley

Turn#7 1040ad
Set Bapedi for galley (from the settler it was working on. )
set Science slider back to 50%. (we still get Astronomy in 1 turn)
3 workers north of Ulundi irrigate
1 worker moves east
4 workers in Sidon mine horse on hill
Fortify immortal in Susa
2 workers south of Pasagarde road
worker moves north to desert
worker in Hamadon roads horse
Settler BUILDS PRICESYLVANIA. set to build catapult

*** Enter
We have Astronomy. set to Navigation
Arbela gets Colosseum. set to Copernicus' Observatory (not sure why except it sounded good.)
Tyre gets musketman. set to Caravel (better boats are coming our way now.)

Turn#8 1050ad
worker south of Babylon clears Jungle
3 workers go to mountain north of Ulundi
worker roads jungle in Ulundi
Tyre fortifies musketman
2 workers south of Parsagadae ? mine? irrigate? my notes aren't clear. But they are WORKING, I assure you.
3 workers near Zimb clear
1 worker irrigates near Ulundi
Our galley goes toward Samaria

***Enter
Pasagardae produces catapult. set to immortal
THE PEOPLE LOVE ME! Oh joy, and our palace expands and is beautiful!!!!

Turn #9 1060 ad
Set science slider back to 40% so that we are growing
move catapult in Pasagadae to coast and fortify (just in case a galley stops by to welcome it onboard.)
2 workers south of Pasagadae irrigate
4 workers in Sidon move south
3 workers north of Ulundi road mountain
2 workers east of Ulundi irrigate
2 workers move east toward Bapedi and mine
Our galley reaches Samaria and awaits further instructions and more passengers
worker in Hamadon moves south

***Enter
Romans request an audience. They want to trade Monarchy for Monotheism. I say not. Then they want to trade maps. I'm not interested in giving them our map. So I tell them goodbye.
Tarsus produces Caravel. set to catapult. (Gonna load these babies up and storm the Bastille.)
Gordium has produced musketman. set to immortal.

Turn #10 1070ad
2 workers south of Pasagadae road
3 workers in Sidon road
1 worker mines
2 workers west of Bapedi mines with other workers
Fortify musketman in Gordium
Fortified Caravel in Tarsus
worker north of Ulundi roads
Fortified galley in Samaria
Worker in Hamadon roads


So at last here we are at the end of these 10 turns. I look forward to the day when I am a good enough player that I can type "workers go to and fro."

I wish I had not changed the settler in Bapedi I was producing to a galley. We could have settled that land south west. But I was in a rush to get some galleys going, and not every city can produce them, and some that can will only do it slowly.

 

[Padma]

Just a quick reply now - I'll try to look at the save later tonight.

Tarsus is size 12 and will grow in 9999 turns. (I just smiled and went on as if I knew what to do about that. )

When a city will grow in "9999" turns, it just means that it has excess food, so it *could* grow, but there is another restriction on its growth: needs Aquaduct, or, in this case, needs Hospital. These cities are good (sometimes) for popping out workers/settlers, if they can grow back to max size quickly. Another thing to do with them is to set their citizens to producing as many shields as possible without starvation, as excess food is just wasted anyway.

Worker north of somewhere does something ??? (^$#^%$#)
Our galley moves several turns ALL BY ITSELF near Pompey

This one was rwprice's "fault". Remember: don't leave any units on long gotos without leaving clear, explicit instructions for the next player.

I move Science slider to 80% to get Astronomy in 3 turns
...
set Science slider back to 50%. (we still get Astronomy in 1 turn)

Good use of the Science slider.

We get THE GREAT LIBRARY in Zimb. set to University
News comes that the Greeks have the Hanging Gardens. Oh well. They need to have something.

The GL serves two purposes for us: 1) we get the culture, and 2) we keep it out of the AI's hands, and maintain our tech dominance. As for the HG, well, I guess that works as a "Consolation Prize" for the Greeks.

Arbela gets Colosseum. set to Copernicus' Observatory (not sure why except it sounded good.)

Copernicus' is a good Science Wonder. IIRC (I'm at work without the game) it doubles science output for the city it is built in. Without looking at the save, it might be a reasonable choice here.


I'll try to post more later, after I see the save.

 

[Padma]

Detailed Look:

Zimbabwe should be building Copernicus'. It can get it done quicker than Arbela if switched from Library, and it already has a higher science rating. I would switch Arbela to Library and Zimbabwe to Copernicus'.

Also, the other Wonders may be switched between the cities building them, depending on which ones we wamt most, to get the earliest builds. I.e., is Sun Tzu's more important, or Leo's? SunTzu's puts a barracks in every city on the same continent. Leo's allows cheaper upgrading of units anywhere. We need to look at all our building Wonders in that light.

On Hamadan Island, is there a reason that worker is building a road to nowhere? I could understand if he were connecting Pricesylvania, but he is out in the middle of nowhere. And why is Pricesylvania building a Catapult? A Temple, or a Spearman, or a Harbor I could understand, but a Catapult? And we do need to build a Harbor on that island somewhere, to get the benefit of our Luxuries and Strategic Resources. It could wait until the new city is founded, though.

Speaking of Harbors, Samaria needs one, too. Finish the Temple first, though. The expanded borders will pull in the Fish tile.

Don't forget that as a Republic, we can "hurry" things by spending some gold, rather than whipping citizens to death.

Navigation is okay for the current tech choice. It lets us traverse ocean quares, and allows us to build Magellan's. Don't forget to get Banking soon, though. And Chivalry would let us upgrade our horsies to Knights. Speaking of Upgrades, I notice we have a lot of Spearmen and Pikemen manning our defenses. These can all be upgraded to Musketmen. It will be cheaper, though, if we can get Leo's soon. In any case, upgrading is cheaper than building Musketmen outright.

That's about all I can think of at this time, so,

Turn order:

archer_007
stwils
BoBtheBUILDER >>> UP NOW
mcdan >>> On Deck
rwprice >>> gone, but not forgotten

 

[mcdan]

rwprice - in case you are still checking out the game - and I hope so! - you gave what time you could - I have been remiss in saying farewell. Sorry to see you go. Hope you feel like commenting on game every now and then. It is a lot to do - I still cannot believe the time it takes.

Off to read Padma's critique

 

[mcdan]

looks like a good turn!

Am curious that Tarsus needs a hospital or aquaduct (which I understand will help) but when I press on the "option" button (played stwil's 10 turns using the report)- these are not listed - is this because they are at 9999 growth? (newbie question) Would "popping" some help move this city along or better to spend gold?

science slider choices seem excellent

workers and roads on island ??? What is the plan?

Padma said it all re: critique so that's all from mcdan. Thanks Padma for these detailed critiques that help us (me) learn so much.

But must mention I don't know who has the more interesting reports to read - Bob the B or stwills - both give such detail (and humor) - so good job to both for detailed reporting.

Off to read my PTW Prima

 

[BoBtheBUILDER]

Got it... may be a bit before positing. To give you a tease, here's my preturn log (for those of you that have seen "Better Off Dead," imagine the paper boy when I say "TWO HOURS!")

(0) 1070 AD
At first glance I don't think there's going to be much to winning this game... I wish I knew what had stunted the growth of the other civs, but the fact that they don't have a single city in double digit population despite all the food bonuses around them is ludicrous. I think the only question will be whether we'll achieve conquest before domination kicks in. Anyway, to the game...

First things first, I start on Padma's to do list:

Originally posted by Padma:
Zimbabwe should be building Copernicus'. It can get it done quicker than Arbela if switched from Library, and it already has a higher science rating. I would switch Arbela to Library and Zimbabwe to Copernicus'.

Well, I take that to mean that he wanted Arbela to switch to University, right? Since it already has a library? My pal the librarian at the APL (Arbela Public Library) would be sorely disappointed. They just won the PLY (Persian Library of the Year) award. :congrats: Anyway, enough of that, I switch Arbela to university and change Zimbabwe to Compernicus' Observatory.

That taken care of...

Originally posted by Padma:
Also, the other Wonders may be switched between the cities building them, depending on which ones we wamt most, to get the earliest builds. I.e., is Sun Tzu's more important, or Leo's? SunTzu's puts a barracks in every city on the same continent. Leo's allows cheaper upgrading of units anywhere. We need to look at all our building Wonders in that light.

So I start looking at what wonders are available to us right now besides Copy's Obsy...

1) Sistine Chapel, currently under construction in Persepolis and available in 15 turns:
According to the Civilopedia, the Chapel doubles the affect of all Cathedrals in your cities. I doesn't say anything about continents and I find nothing on CFC to lead me to believe that the impact of this wonder is limited by any geographic bounds. Major upsides... it produces 6 culture/turn and never expires!
2) Sun Tzu's Art of War, currently under construction in Babylon and available in 4 turns:
The Art of War gives us a barracks in every city on the continent and it never expires either. It only gives 2 culture though.
3) Leonardo's Workshop, currently under construction in Ulundi and available in 22 turns:
Similar to the Art of War in that in gives 2 culture per turn and never expires, this wonder gives us half price unit upgrades.

I think what Padma was nudging us, meaning me, to was that if we are going to prosecute a war on the other continent we're going to need to upgrade our units. While we do have a nice nest egg right now, it'd be a shame to blow it on unit upgrades and have nothing left for infrastructure on the other continent. So I switch Ulundi to Palace, switch Babylon to Leo's and switch Ulundi to Sun Tzu's. I leave the Colossus alone in Bactra as it's the only city of the four working on wonders that can produce it and it's almost done anyway.

I can deal with the rest of Padma's to do list in my city/unit checks.

City Checks
Zimbabwe - First up on the hit parade, Z has issues. It can grow but we can't build a hospital so it'll be stuck at 12. I decide to see if I can do some re-ordering of our labor. The nice problem that we have is that to boost production we have to sacrifice trade (we're not really sacrificing food since we can't grow anymore, unless we were building workers/settlers, which we aren't. The only tile around Z not producing shields is producing three food (the irrigated grassland along the river). Taking a worker off there to work the hills NW of town results in a food shortage. Taking a non-bonus grassland near the river off and working the hill results in less commerce to luxuries and turns one of our happy citizens into a content citizen. I decide that I'm overthinking things and leave well enough alone.
Pasargadae - I decide to switch production in Pasargadae from Immortals to a Horseman. The reason for this is that Horsemen have much more potential than Immortals. Horsemen can be upgraded to Knights and then Cavalry. I think we'll probably win this game with a bunch of Knights going buck wild over on the other continent. Either way, Knights are much stronger than Immortals in the defense and movement categories and are equally strong on the attack. We have an unhappy camper in Pasargade that thinks its too crowded. I weigh giving them a Coliseum or Cathedral, but then decide that it's not really worth the delay if we're trying to build an army to take over the other civs. This town has such an interesting mix of tile types, but I think the way it's configured it works.
Suza - A caravel coming out of a city without a harbor? I decide that since it's one turn away I should let it go and build a harbor next. I don't see any way to improve production on the tiles being worked so I leave them as is.
Ulundi - The major problem with Ulundi is that many of tiles that seem like they should be mined are irrigated. This city gets plenty of food from the multiple irrigated flood plains. My feeling is that the bonus grasslands in this area should be mined while the regular grasslands should be irrigated. The desert tiles should also be mined, we won't need the food off those tiles. (I'm sure I'll get a :weed: smackaround here ). I don't see how I can improve things until some of the tile improvements are changed so I leave as is.
Arbela - This town is victimized by its proximity to neighbors so it loses some of it's prime real estate. It's still growing so I leave it in growth mode to finish its University and celebrate its Library's accomplishments.
Bapedi - This town is another that is stuck with a limited choice in tiles and some odd decisions on tile improvements (some of which I probably made!) They're ready to send off a Caravel as well but don't have a harbor. I let this go as well but queue up a harbor. Lots of corruption here. I change the queue to a courthouse.
Antioch - This town ain't growin', and no wonder! No irrigation anywhere to be seen! The desert tiles can be mined but the plains tiles need to be irrigated if this town is gonna grow at all. The hills to the north will supply all the production this town needs, but it needs food so that those hills can be worked.
Tarsus - This town is at it's optimum population until we can get a hospital and there's no way to reorder our citizens in order to maximize production or slow food growth. I think this should be our settler/worker farm. There is quite a bit of unhappiness here (three unhappy laborers, most I've seen in any of these towns) so I switch production from Catapult to Cathedral
Gordium - Another maxed out city here. I change Immortals production to Horseman for reasons outlined above.
Bactra - I move one citizen from working the unconnected Iron tile to the hill tile next door. It slows down production by one shield for now, but we will grow next turn as a result and have even stronger production. Colossus should be done before I hand over my turns.
Sidon - Not alot going on in this little burg. I switch production over to a temple so that it can grow and pull in more coastal tiles.
Tyre - Same irrigation problem here as with Antioch. It's fine to mine the desert tiles that aren't bringing irrigation to this part of the island, but we need to irrigate the plains tiles so the city can grow. Another Caravel in production without a Harbor, but since this town needs a Harbor to grow anyway I swtich production.
Sardis - I switch production to an aqueduct so that the city can continue to grow. I can't boost performance here at all either my reassigning citizens so I leave as is.
Samaria - I buy the Temple (84 gp) and start a harbor.
Hamadan - Why a settler here when Tarsus can churn one out and a caravel can get it up there more quickly? I change production to a harbor. I can't do anything to improve production so I leave things as they are.
Ergili - I don't remember this pup! It's Musketman will be done next turn so I'll start on a harbor so it can grow as well. The coast tiles will allow the desert/hill tiles to be worked once the harbor is done.
Pricesylvania - I switch production to a temple so that it'll capture the whale tile (among others). You guys notice that our content workers look more upset than our unhappy workers? What's up with that?
Persepolis - Some tile work needs to be done here. Irrigating the plains will allow the city to grow so we can work the mined desert tiles. Not much I can do about it now though so I leave things as they are.
Babylon - The city is so corrupt that moving things around doesn't really change anything so I leave as is.

Unit Check
I wake up the spearman near Pricesylvania and move him there to garrison the town.
I wake up the lone worker on Hamy Island and send him to Hamadan to mine the grassland tile.
I go back and change Tarsus from a Cathedral to a Settler.
I move the sleeping Catapult outside of Pasargadae into town.
I wake up the galley with the settler outside Samaria and move it toward Iron Island down south.
I don't see any other "wandering" units so I leave things as they are and move on to...

Advisers Check
Domestic (buggie wuggie wuggie) - I leave the slider as it is since I see we can't boost our science output without losing money or dropping our luxury rate. Since our cultural improvements are way behind I don't see the value in messing with the luxury tax so I leave that as it is. Our adviser doesn't have much else to say so I move on.
Trade - We can't trade and that's about all he has to say about that.
Military - We have a strong military compared to the other three civs.
Foreign - Everyone seems happy with us. Not sure why we have an RoP with Greece, but whatever. Everyone is in awe of our culture, naturally. Egypt has four cities, 2gp in bank, has one source of Ivory connected, lacks horses, wines, furs, spices and gems on the resource side, Monotheism, Feudalism and Engineering on the science side. Greece has seven cities, 32gp in bank, has one source of silks and two sources of dyes connected, lacks wines, furs, spices and gems on the resources side and Feudalism, Engineering and Theology on the science side. We have five turns left with our RoP deal with them. Rome has six cities, 32gp in bank, has one source of Incense connected and lacks wines, furs, spices and gems. He has Monarchy but lacks Monotheism, Feudalism and Engineering. I briefly consider trading for Monarchy and then trading it around, but since Cleo and Alex have as little as Rome and Rome wants over 300gp for it, I decide I'll let Rome broker the tech.
Culture - Nothing exciting here. 100K and 20K culture victories are pretty much out at this point I think.
Science - 5 turns till Navigation. I would suggest going Chivalry and then Navigation. That way we'll have upgraded Knights ready to go at the end of this turn.

Heh, we actually kept Babylon out of scoring in the double digits, eh? That's funny. This game is over guys.

Only categories we're not leading in is approval rating (which will change once we get some harbors up), disease, family size and military service.

I think that's all for the preturn (phew, that took 2 hours!)

 

[Padma]

Originally posted by BoBtheBUILDER
At first glance I don't think there's going to be much to winning this game... I wish I knew what had stunted the growth of the other civs, but the fact that they don't have a single city in double digit population despite all the food bonuses around them is ludicrous. I think the only question will be whether we'll achieve conquest before domination kicks in.

I think I mentioned back when we discovered the other continent and its Civs that this game was in the bag.

Zimbabwe should be building Copernicus'. It can get it done quicker than Arbela if switched from Library, and it already has a higher science rating. I would switch Arbela to Library and Zimbabwe to Copernicus'.

Well, I take that to mean that he wanted Arbela to switch to University, right? Since it already has a library? My pal the librarian at the APL (Arbela Public Library) would be sorely disappointed. They just won the PLY (Persian Library of the Year) award. :congrats: Anyway, enough of that, I switch Arbela to university and change Zimbabwe to Compernicus' Observatory.

Yes, I meant University!

I think what Padma was nudging us, meaning me, to was that if we are going to prosecute a war on the other continent we're going to need to upgrade our units. While we do have a nice nest egg right now, it'd be a shame to blow it on unit upgrades and have nothing left for infrastructure on the other continent. So I switch Ulundi to Palace, switch Babylon to Leo's and switch Ulundi to Sun Tzu's. I leave the Colossus alone in Bactra as it's the only city of the four working on wonders that can produce it and it's almost done anyway.

At this stage of the game, I will not simply tell you what to do. I could play it myself, in that case. What I will do is make suggestions, and hints, and point out weedier moves when you play. What I am really interested in is seeing you think about what you are doing. A potentially weedy move with some thought and logic behind it is better than a "correct" move, done by sheer guesswork.

City Checks
Ulundi - The major problem with Ulundi is that many of tiles that seem like they should be mined are irrigated. This city gets plenty of food from the multiple irrigated flood plains. My feeling is that the bonus grasslands in this area should be mined while the regular grasslands should be irrigated. The desert tiles should also be mined, we won't need the food off those tiles. (I'm sure I'll get a :weed: smackaround here ). I don't see how I can improve things until some of the tile improvements are changed so I leave as is.

No here. Irrigated floodplains provide more than enough food to let us work mined deserts, and mined Bonus Grasslands.

Hamadan - Why a settler here when Tarsus can churn one out and a caravel can get it up there more quickly? I change production to a harbor.

Good thinking! I didn't think of that one myself, last night.

Advisers Check
Foreign - Everyone seems happy with us. Not sure why we have an RoP with Greece, but whatever.

IIRC, we made an RoP 1) to allow easier exploration with galleys around Greek territory, and 2) to make them happier with us. (The AI loves RoPs!)

Science - 5 turns till Navigation. I would suggest going Chivalry and then Navigation. That way we'll have upgraded Knights ready to go at the end of this turn.

OTOH, Nav is almost done, and we have a lot of time and money invested in it. If we let it finish, and then go for Chivalry, we may still get knights before you hand over, as Chivalry is relatively cheap for us, now.

This game is over guys.

I think I already said that!

You did a lot of good thinking here, BoB. I am looking forward to seeing how the rest of your turn plays out.

 

[BoBtheBUILDER]

Originally posted by BoBtheBUILDER
Science - 5 turns till Navigation. I would suggest going Chivalry and then Navigation. That way we'll have upgraded Knights ready to go at the end of this turn.

Originally posted by Padma
OTOH, Nav is almost done, and we have a lot of time and money invested in it. If we let it finish, and then go for Chivalry, we may still get knights before you hand over, as Chivalry is relatively cheap for us, now.

Doh, my turn to fess up... I meant Nav then Chiv, not the way I wrote it.

Thanks for the props on the preturn. Hopefully I'll put the gig to bed tonight so the next player can get going.

BoB

 

[BoBtheBUILDER]

(1) 1080 AD
Suza produces caravel, I change production to Harbor.
Bapedi produces caravel, I change production to Courthouse.
Antioch produces colosseum, I change production to Worker.
Samaria produces temple, I change production to Harbor.
Ergili produces musketman, I change production to Harbor.

I decide that the hills outside Ergili would make a good rally point for our forces destined for the other continent, so I send our "loose" catapult there.
I send workers S of Pasargadae to plains around Persepolis to irrigate.
I send workers SW of Sidon to wines in the plains between Persepolis and Antioch to irrigate (boost food production).
The workers south of Babylon on ?clearing forest? while we're producing a wonder in Babylon? This seems :weed: to me, but I decide to let it go as there is an equal chance the shields may go to Arbela and none of our cities can access the tile.
I send worker SW of Sardis to coastal hills outside of Ulundi to catch a ride to the other island.
I fortify new musketman in Ergili.
I move caravel SE of Samaria toward iron island.
I move worker on Hamadan Island to improve tiles near Hamadan.
I fortify new spearman in Pricesylvania.
I move regular spearman and veteran immortal currently stationed in Arbela to horses near Bactra to catch a ride from our new caravel in Bapedi to start an outpost near Elephantine.

Looking at our advisor screens we seem to have a strong military on paper but it is spread awfully thin. For some reason the largest concentration of troops is in Pasargadae. I decide to ship out two immortals and a catapult stations there to the newly designated rally point. I also send an immortal stationed in Persepolis to the rally point and a spearman stationed there to Bactra. I send the two "extra" immortals stationed in Antioch to the rally point.

In the diplo checks I note that Greece must have dealt Monotheism to Rome for Monarchy because Rome now has Monotheism and Greece now has Monarchy.

I change my mind on Antioch and change it from producing a worker to producing a horseman.

Interturn
Nothing

(2) 1090 AD
Pasargadae produces a horseman. I have them start another of the same. I keep the horseman there so that it can upgrade when we get Leo's.
I move worker and worker stack (3) near Ulundi to clear jungle near Bapedi.
I move worker W of Ulundi to mine tile NE of Ulundi.
I move worker stack (4) that was building a ?mine? in a ?jungle? to clear the jungle tile outside Bapedi.
I wake up the other worker building a road to spices on the south coast to help clear jungle outside Bapedi.
I move galley to Iron Island. I wake up the settler first to pop the hut. The Kassite tribe gave us a worthless map of their region. I move the pikeman on the island next and send the galley back to Tarsus to upgrade to a Caravel.
Spearman/Immortal stack board caravel
Workers begin irrigation SE of Persepolis.
Workers begin irrigation N of Persepolis.

I shop the possibility of an alliance against Egypt with both of the other civs and they both decline me. The won't even entertain an offer.

Only items of interest are that Alex seems to have the strongest economy of our competing civs. He's gaining at least 10gpt.

Interturn
Nothing

(3) 1100 AD
Tarsus produces settler, I change production to Caravel.
Gordium produces Horseman, I leave production as is.
Workers SW of Zimbabwe start mine.
New settler in Tarsus boards passing Caravel. A garrisoned spearman in Tarsus joins the settler on the caravel.
I move worker N of Ulundi to tile NE of Ulundi to mine tile.
I move new horseman in Gordium to Ulundi for upgrade once we get Leo's.
I send extra Immortal in Ulundi to rally point.
I send Caravel outside of Bactra towards other continent.
I send worker S of Babylon (it was never clear where the shields went from harvesting the forest, though nothing notable changed in production time in Babylon or Arbela) to Ulundi to build a road in a flood plain.
I send horsemen in Pasargadae to Zimbabwe to be upgraded when we get Leo's.
I send extra immortal in Zimbabwe to rally point.
Workers begin irrigating wheat SW of Persepolis.
Workers irrigate plains W of Tyre, move to tile NW of Tyre to irrigate.
Dariush Kabir founded on Iron Island. Pikeman fortifies new settlement. Production set to harbor.

Nothing notable in the adviser reports. I definately think that Greece should be our first target.

Interturn
Nothing

(4) 1110 AD
Babylon produces Leonardo's Workshop, change production to Horseman.
Palace expands.
Workers move to tile SW of Persepolis to build road.
Spearman fortifies in Bactra
Workers begin clearing jungle N of Ulundi

No major changes in the advisor check, but here's an interesting tidbit. Little Antioch is the fifth best city in the world?!?! Go figure that one out.

Interturn
Nothing

(5) 1120 AD
We discover Navigation and begin researching Chivalry.
Pasargadae produces Horseman, I keep production the same.
Antioch produces Horseman, I keep production the same.
Samaria's borders expand.
Workers SW of Zimbabwe begin mining hill SE of Suza.
New horseman in Pasargadae moves to Zimbabwe.
New horseman in Antioch moves to Zimbabwe.
I change production in Pasargadae to Catapult.
Workers SE of Bapedi begin mine, move to clear jungle E of current position.

I mess around with the slider but we're still researching as high as we can without sacrificing gpt.
Never mind what I said regarding the Greece-Rome trade. It seems that Rome still lacks Monothism so it couldn't have been a trade. Greece must have some real good commerce going. Nothing else to report on the adviser front. Antioch is still hanging as the fifth best city.

Susa is our best producer of the coastal cities. Once its harbor is complete it will start Magellan's Voyage.

Interturn
RoP comes up for renewal... I decide to renew it (what the heck, it'll be 20 more turns before we're ready to strike them anyway, right?). I get all their gold (wonder what they spend 80 some gp on?) and 1gpt with their world map.

(6) 1130 AD
Babylon produces Horseman. I leave production as is.
Arbela produces University. I change production to catapult.
Bapedi's cultural influence expands.
Gordium produces horseman, I change production to catapult.
Our palace expands.
Workers SW of Persepolis begin irrigating plains tile SE of Persepolis.
Worker outside Hamadan completes mine and begins road.

We must have picked up some more trade because Chivalry is ready in 3 turns now.

I'm still not sure what happened to Greece's money after the diplo check. None of the other civs seems to have had an infusion of cash (Egypt actually lost a gp). Maybe someone needed money for some troop upgrades. Hard to say at this point.

Just so you all know, I'm resisting paying money for anything that is not essential until I find out how much our Knight upgrades are going to cost. Then I may go on a mini-spending spree before the end of my turn.

Interturn
Nothing

(7) 1140 AD
Pasargadae prodcues catapult, I leave production as is.
Tarsus produces Caravel, I leave production as is.
Worker W of Ulundi moves NW to begin mining bonus grassland.
Alot of Irrigation going on up around Antioch/Tyre. The irrigation happens so fast I'm not going to bore you with the details.

Messing around with the advisor screens, I think our next research path should be to get us up to Military Tradition. In the process we'll get Metallurgy and be able to upgrade our catapults to cannons and once we get Mil. Trad we can upgrade our Knights to Cavalry. The reason I think we need to do this is that all three civs aren't too far away from Chivalry (i.e. Knights). If we're to have a decisive military advantage then we need to get this unit with superior offense to complete victory and avoid a drawn-out war.

Our approval rating is now second in the world.

No changes on the diplomatic front.

Interturn
Nothing

(8) 1150 AD
Babylon produces Horseman, I change production to Library (cheap cultural/scientific improvement... three turns to complete).
Zimbabwe's cultural influence expands
Suza's "WLTKD" celebration ends, I am guessing this is due to city growth. Suza can no longer grow without a change in tile improvements. The two regular grasslands north of town could be irrigated to bring more food in.
Suza completes Harbor and begins Magellan's Voyage (complete in 29).
Arbela completes catapult and begins musketman.
Gordium completes catapult and begins musketman.
New catapult in Gordium moves torward rally point (a full "Go To" command would extend past my turn).
New catapult in Arbela moves torward rally point (see above).
Workers irrigate tile SE of Persepolis.
Workers irrigates tile N of Persepolis.
Galley moves to Tarsus and upgrades to Caravel for 10gp.
Worker outside Hamadan moves toward forest tile SW of Pricesylvania to build road.

No changes on the diplomatic front. Since we're one turn from Chivalry I decide to see what I can do with the slider, but anything to cut back on science increases the research time to 2 turns.

Interturn
Nothing

(9) 1160 AD
We discover Chivalry and begin to research Chemistry (8 turns away).
Pasargadae completes catapult and begins Musketman.
We complete the Colossus in Bactra. I change production to Harbor (they need Barracks here too though!).
Move new catapult in Pasargadae toward rally point.
It'll only cost 400 gold to upgrade 10 horsemen to Knights so I go ahead and do that.
Workers N of Ulundi begin mine.
Workers S of Bapedi begin irrigation.
I upgrade a horseman that was in transit for another 40 gp.
I can upgrade 8 Spearmen to Musketmen for 320 gp so I do that.
I can upgrade 5 Pikemen to Musketmen for 150 gp so I do that as well.
I wake up our extra immortals in Babylon and send them toward the rally point.
I wake up our extra immortal in Susa and send him toward the rally point.
I change production in Dariush Kabir to Temple and hurry production for 216 gp.

DAMN... I hit enter by mistake.

Interturn
Nothing

(10) 1170 AD
Dariush Kabir produces Temple, starts Harbor.
Caravel offloads settler/spearman on Hamadan Isle and heads back to rally point.
Workers S of Bapedi move to tile E of Bapedi to build mine.
Workers N of Ulundi move W to begin mine on grassland tile.
Worker W of Ulundi moves S to begin mine on desert tile.
Workers SE of Suza begin road on hill.
Worker SE of Persepolis begins mine E of Persepolis.
Workers N of Persepolis begin/complete road.
Knights move to rally point.
Workers NE of Antioch begin irrigation.

You almost have to wonder what the heck the AIs are up to, nothing changes on the diplomacy front.

We now have on their way or at the rally point already 10 knights, 10 immortals and 6 catapults. That force in and of itself would require 9 caravels to make the journey. We have three at the rally point, two in the field and one in production. We may just have to buy a couple as we prepare for the invasion of the other continent. Just for kicks I investigate Athens to see what our guys may be up against. Athens is defended by 2 hoplite. I think this force will probably be enough to seal the game up for us. Maybe add in four to eight musketmen (already in production) and this force will be rockin.

Here's the save:

Xeres of the Persians, 1170 A.D.

 

[Padma]

Looking good, BoB! You are definitely getting us set up for the Finale.

The workers south of Babylon on ?clearing forest? while we're producing a wonder in Babylon? This seems :weed: to me, but I decide to let it go as there is an equal chance the shields may go to Arbela and none of our cities can access the tile.

...

(it was never clear where the shields went from harvesting the forest, though nothing notable changed in production time in Babylon or Arbela)

It sounds like to me, too. If none of our cites have that tile in its radius, why were we chopping it?

I'm not sure how the game handles the shields produced by chopping a forest outside any city's radius, but it looks to me like, if they went anywhere, they went to Babylon, and thus were wasted.

I shop the possibility of an alliance against Egypt with both of the other civs and they both decline me. The won't even entertain an offer.

A quirk of the game. Nobody will entertain the idea of a military alliance against a third party until you are already at war. I guess they don't want to have to declare war, and then have you renege on the deal, leaving them holding the bag.

RoP comes up for renewal... I decide to renew it (what the heck, it'll be 20 more turns before we're ready to strike them anyway, right?).

Well, it certainly will be now! Actually, by the time we get everybody ferried over and assembled, it probably will be close to 20 turns before we can really let go. If sooner, well, we could always pick on someone else!

Excellent use of the sliders, and advisors! That kind of attention to detail can make all the difference on higher levels.

I'll try to have a look at the save tonight, but if mcdan wants to download and get started, that's fine. If I see something in the save, I'll post it in here ASAP.

Turn order:

archer_007 >>> On Deck
stwils
BoBtheBUILDER
mcdan >>> UP NOW

 

[mcdan]

Good turn!

I see that I am up now to say "got it" but will be out of town this weekend in Highlands, NC and will be back on Sunday afternoon. I understand if you want to skip my turn and go on - I don't think I will have internet there - one can only hope !!!

Assume that I will not have access and let the team do whatever is best -skip or wait.

Had hoped to be able to play my turn before leaving but packing etc always is more that one expects

 

[BoBtheBUILDER]

Any thoughts on why Antioch rates so high on the Top 5 cities list? That one really stumped me.

BoB

 

[Padma]

Originally posted by BoBtheBUILDER
Any thoughts on why Antioch rates so high on the Top 5 cities list? That one really stumped me.

BoB

I'll see if I can puzzle it out when I look at the save.

 

[Padma]

Antioch is one of two cities we have that do not have Wonders, and are all Happy. Arbela is the other. The difference there is that Antioch has more culture built up. I am assuming this is what pushed it into the top 5.

Mcdan, you are still up.

 

[mcdan]

Got it!

 

[stwils]

Today I have been practicing using word pad and alt tab.

It is not easy as word pad covers up most of the Civ3 screen. And I found I have to record whatever I just did right then and there from memory because I can't see what I just did.

Still, taking notes by hand and then typing all the log later is tedious.

How do you all manage so well?

Without being able to see the screen, I find creativity leaves me as I scramble to remember what a worker did or where he went. (Not to mention all the other things!)

I want to get this under control as it will surely shorten the time I spend writing up my log. But I am wondering if my game and log will suffer from doing it this way.

stwils

 

[Padma]

Well, I use Notepad, but I have the window for it smaller than the screen, so I can still see Civ3 under it. I just move the notepad window if I need to see something.

 

[BoBtheBUILDER]

Ditto what Padma said... plus I switch back and forth after each move, that way I don't have to remember much. The biggest memory challenge is the interturn stuff because the AI doesn't pause after each thing it does (except when it offers/demands trades). A lot of what I write is what I'm thinking at the time, that's why you'll see me go back and change things later down my log. I keep it about half the width of the screen so I can see the vital stats and about half our map. Like Padma says, you can always move the screen if you need to see something or switch back to the game to manuver around.