CT4 -- Death to Cathy!

Never mind...it took me too long to finish up ZF-1 tonight, and I'm not going to have a chance to play CT4 before I leave, so Lee, you're up (something for you to play before LK27 :D )

ChrTh << SKIPPED
LKendter << UP NOW
meldor << On Deck
Erik Mesoy
T-Hawk
God
 
(0) 350 BC - Building military is hopeless corrupt cities?
Baldur's Gate, Daggerfall to temple - I want border lock

:confused: - Why didn't we mine the cleared grassland by Tokyo before moving to the Jungle.
With a small map we have just a handle of usefull cities - we need shields NOW.

We sell our map to India - We get mapmaking, $5.

I wish we had researched Code of Laws BEFORE Philosphy - we can really use some courthouses.

Ghandhi is a loser - we should have attacked that settler / spearman pair already.


(1) 330 BC - WTH? - Our ELITE archer can't destroy a barb camp.
Double argg - I really needed that unit for the upcoming war with India.
OUCH - I missed EDO building a granary - The town has ZERO growth - Switch to temple.


(2) 310 BC - Nice Mountains is formed.
This time the Barb camp is destroyed.


(3) 290 BC - I give India $170, wm and we get code of laws.
Lee's Gambit to courthouse.


(4) 270 BC - Kagoshima is formed.


(5) 250 BC - KendterTown is formed.
(I) Watch India get attack by barbs - of course, they do no harm :(


(6) 230 BC - I know it won't win any popularity awards - but I double whip Lee's Gambit for 40 shields exactly.
Ghandhi is still a loser - still won't give away communications.
(I) Lee's Gambit begins the FP.


(7) 210 BC - Find Ghandhi - don't want to trade - WAR!
Chittagong auto-razed, no leader - 1 dead horseman.


(8) 190 BC - @!@$!@$ RnG - Our elite warrior dies attacking Bengal.
Our horseman takes Bengal - I see a culture border, and know where India is coming from.
Bengal had no culture build up :)


(9) 170 BC - India lands another settler pair - Warrior loses 1 hp, chases are horseman away - It then dies to our archer

(down to 1 hp) - we gain two new slaves.


(10) 150 BC - Our troops get some badly needed R&R


Summary - If we get a leader - FP in Nice Mountains - this would make almost the whole land mass productive.

This is a small map. 2 cities away is the furthest we can hand build the fp.
Don't stop the FP production. As the city grows - the number of turns should improve.
LEAVE TWO SPEARMAN - We must stop an riots hear.

Let Tokyo grow - even +1 for the spice spots helps our cashflow.

Once healed - get the troops close to Bengal - watch for another settler pair - I suspect India may give us a lot of free

labor.
 
Picky, picky, picky.

The leader rushed FP takes priority.

In the event we fail to get a leader, complete the hand build fp in Lee's Gambit.

One thing I should have done with Lee's Gambit - merge a couple of our NATIVE workers with the city. That will speed up the build time also. Once we have a fp we will have the production to land on the India land mass and kick some butt.
 
Actually, merging the one RUSSIAN worker we still have with the city would be a good idea, since it's less useful as a worker but equally useful as a population point.

I often do that with captured workers once I'm at peace with the civ in question (otherwise you get "Stop the aggression" unhappiness.) It's a neat mirror of real life, with the immigrants flowing into the big cities :)
 
Actually I will NEVER merge foreign pop-points until that Civ is eliminated - you never know when the next war will start. In our case, that is not an issue. Cathy is already DEAD. ;)

I have notice a big split on the native / foreign workers. I see T-hawk favors native workers. I prefer the 1/2 pace - no cost - foreign workers. A large worker force is needed, but it can be a drain on the economy. If I have the choice of worker type, my preference is to get rid of the costly native workers.

This is one of those we agree to disagree issues. I don't think either group will convince the other group.

However, no matter what - merge a worker into the FP city. You will have to decide native / foreign. If I had realized it early my turn, the debate will be academic - we would already have merged native workers.
 
For the moment yes, but I doubt we will finish the game in depostism. We have to think toward the future.
 
Lee,

I didn't see the link for the save game, but I assume it is CT4_150BC.zip. I will use this one unless you tell me otherwise.
 
150 BC Pre-turn
Move citizen in Edo to work hill that is undergoing improvement. Fire governor at Daggerfall, this is the second time I have had to fire governors. Don't use them in an SG, or at least turn them all off at the end of your turn. I fire all governors. I put out executive order to shoot on site. One town (Baulder's Gate) even had the governor managing the stinking moods! They waste your people making specialists.
I) Osaka completes a horseman and starts a temple. Tokyo finishes a spear and starts a harbor.

130 BC (1)
Move spear towards the undefended city of Kagoshima. The issue of the civ of the merged worker becomes moot as the only worker nearby that is ready is native. Lee's Gambit is now pop 3.
I) We finish Philosophy and start Republic. Edo finishes a Spearman and starts a harbor.

110 BC (2)
Troop movement and bordom.
I) Reports come in of a massive barb uprising near Baulder's Gate. Someone missed fragging a camp.

90 BC (3)
Gandi will finally talk peace but will only give up Math. Will wait one more turn to see where barbs are headed.
I) We have 3 barb camps and all three have spouted horsemen. Fortunately it only seems to be about 7 per. At least in the first wave. A wounded Horse up north kills 4 before dying on his mountain, there are five left. The ones on the grassland coast attack a horse in the jungle and he is overrun, so there are eight on the way to Satsuma. The ones near BG attack a fortified horse on a mountain and there are only 3 left to gather outside the city. Kyoto finishes a Horse and starts a settler.

70 BC (4)
Swing a second spear over to BG and hopefully they can take out the barbs. Can't get any help for Satsuma
I) Spear takes out 5 and we get ransacked by 3, losing temple work, 1 pop, and 6g at Satsuma. A second horseman fortified in forest fails to even take one hp off of the five left up north. Baulder's gate holds out and we get an elite spear. Kendertown finishes a worker and starts a temple. We have only one offense unit left in the south.

50 BC (5)
Shift a spear aroung to get a unit in Satsuma.
I) Fortified Archer on mountain takes out 2 barb horses, goes Elite with 5 HP and then dies to the third one without putting a scratch on it. Osaka finishes Temple and starts Horseman. The Americans finish the Colossus. The Indians cascade to the Great Lighthouse.

30 BC (6)
Lack of contact is killing us. India will finally talk and I take peace and 65g for contact with the Aztecs. This immediately drops 4 turns off our research. Neither of them have harbors so unfortunately no trade as yet. Trade Aztecs our worldmap for Math. Thsi shows that we are at least 4 more techs behind them. Drop science rate to minimum for cash to but techs.
I) Godshome finishes a galley and starts a harbor.

10 BC (7)
Take out next to last barb up north. Only have one Horse and one Warrior left up there. Horse takes out barb to south. Don't have a unit to go after the camp outside of Baulder's Gate yet.
I) Bless Abe, he must have bought contact with us as he comes calling to exchange TMs. He trades currency for 50g and a WM. We pass on construction at 10g and 7gpt. May be able to get it cheaper from Aztecs with WM thrown in...we will see.

10 AD (8) Barb camp in the south is sacked for 25g. Only two more to go. We get Construction from India for 57g and 4 gpt. We are only behind two techs now. We need to get one of the others and get out of Despotism.
I) Kyoto finishes a settler and starts a spear. The Indians begin construction of the Great Wall. The Indians finish the Hanging Gardens in Delhi. Our poor galley is beset by two barb galleys and loses 2 HPs but goes elite. Baulder's Gate assualted by two more barbs.

30 AD (9)
Galley returns to port to heal.
I) Aztecs and Americans begin the Great Wall. This lets us know the tech isn't that old.

50 AD (10)
Settler is in jungle headed for the coast. We need this area as it will be productive once FP comes online. I wanted to start more settlers but unfortunately the barb uprisings took care of that.

We can get republic for 37g and 4 gpt or Monarchy for 37g and 6gpt. I would take one of these and get us over to a new government. Monarchy may be the best choice right now as we only have two luxes online and one that can be added. Additionally, we have no marketplaces built to multiply that third lux. The harbor at Godshome should allow us to trade our excess luxes for cash and techs. New government will let us rush much needed improvements. There are two horsemen building, top priority is to get rid of barb camps and then settlers and workers. We will have foriegn cities on our island for a time, but it can't be helped and we will take them once Sammi's came online. There is a barb camp somewhere near the iron mountain in the north and one outside of Baluder's Gate.

Save Game 50 AD
 
Pre-turn:

I think we will be better off in Monarchy for the moment. With a non-religious civ, though, I'd go for Republic and build up for a while. We buy Monarchy for 37 + 5/turn from America.

Why is the worker at Kendertown clearing jungle instead of improving the shield grassland square right there? And after the city expands, it will have two more grasslands (with irrigation available.) No need to clear jungle yet.

I whip the harbor in Edo before we revolt; it'll pay back the food very quickly.

Why isn't the ivory hooked up?

May as well leave research on Republic at minimum.

Aztecs build Great Wall.

70 AD: After the revolution, I look through the cities. We still need more settlers. Kyoto to settler. Osaka to settler. Lee's is now scheduled for FP in 42 turns. Edo finishes harbor, starts granary. Don't try to force Edo into being productive - just let it work water and grow to size 6, and it will generate commerce. Satsuma does not need a temple yet - all but 3 of its second-ring squares are already in our borders with nothing special there. Swap to worker - it wants irrigation badly. Kagoshima - same, temple gains it nothing and it's crying for improved squares.

Argh, spot an Indian settler pair - nothing we can do about it since I don't want to break our peace treaty.


150 AD: Nara founded west of Satsuma. Horseman is near the barb camp - a barb horse pops out and attacks ours. But ours doesn't lose any HP! Next turn, the horse disperses the camp.

170 AD: Yech, America also plunks a city on our continent.

We can trade resources with India! I trade him Spices + Wines for Monotheism + Republic. I know we don't need Republic yet, but he wouldn't do Monotheism for only one luxury. (It occured to me later that I should have traded for a map.)

190 AD: Cathy's Grave founded slightly north of where Moscow was.

250 AD: End of T-hawk's reign.

We can be content to peacefully build up for a while. We can take our continent with Samurai, but will probably wait until later to invade anywhere else.

ct4-250ad.jpg


I wasn't able to get the ivory hooked up. Get Cathy's Grave connected and we'll have one for us and one to trade India.

Forbidden Palace is due in 26 turns, getting 5 shields/turn.
Lots of cities are building Granaries, even ones that are close to size 6. These Granaries are so they can build WORKERS. Lots and lots of Workers will make those jungles vanish.
Kyoto is on Colosseum as a placeholder for a wonder. Sistine, Bach's, or Leonardo's would be nice.
Recommend founding the settler where he is. There's another settler right by Cathy's Grave that will probably be the last settler we'll need.

ERIK MESOY / CHRTH <<< UP NOW (whoever gets back from vacation first)

ChrTh
LKendter
meldor
Erik Mesoy
T-Hawk (swapped with Erik this round)
God (out on vacation for a long time)
 
Ok, look like it's me...I'll try to play tonight, but if not, I'll play tomorrow night at the latest.
 
Turn 0 -- 250 AD
Peaceful expansion? Can do.. :goodjob:
BTW, I'm dropping God from the rotation (if he returns before we finish, I'll add him back in if he wants)...if Erik misses his next turn he'll be dropped and I'll advertise the open spot in the Open SG thread.

I hurry the Worker in Baldur's Gate so that I can get Cathy's Grave online quicker.

I buy an Embassy with India for 53 Gold

Everything else looks good.

Turn 1 -- 260 AD
Baldur's Gate completes Worker, begins Worker
Ranma 1/2 founded...begins Worker

Turn 2 -- 270 AD
Osaka finishes Spearman, begins Spearman
Kagoshima finishes Workerm, begins Temple
Dammit, Indians build Punjab in last good spot...hrm, ok, I find an 'alright' spot close to Punjab...I'll build there. Hopefully we'll be able to get all of these cities via Flip.
I establish an Embassy with the Americans for 50 Gold

Turn 3 -- 280 AD
Tokyo finishes Granary, begins Worker
Nice Mountains finishes Temple, begins Granary
KendterTown finishes Temple, begins Granary

Turn 4 -- 290 AD
The Aztecs built a city on our island! Sheesh! Are we the largest island in this game or something? They built it SW of Nice Mountains.
Zzz

Turn 5 -- 300 AD
Osaka finishes Spearman, begins Spearman
Tokyo finishes Worker, begins Cathedral--next player can change to Marketplace if they want, but since we're actually losing the Cultural Battle to India, we may want to get some extra Cats built.
Satsuma finishes Worker, begins Temple
Nara produces Worker, begins Temple
In a move I've been contemplating for awhile, I switch Cathy's Grave to Temple and send Osaka Spearman there.

Turn 6 -- 310 AD
The Americans are building Sun Tzu. Feudalism is available but extremely expensive (Treasury, WM, 8-10 gpt)
Akira is built, orders Temple.
I establish an embassy with the Aztecs for 61 gold.

Turn 7 -- 320 AD
Zzz

Turn 8 -- 330 AD
Little Tokyo finishes Granary, begins Worker
Osaka finishes Spearman, begins Spearman. I send this Spearman to Daggerfall.
Everybody's building Sun Tzu's.
I get Feudalism from India for Ivory + 46 Gold.
I switch Kyoto to Sun Tzu. 59 turns...yikes!
Osaka now building Pikemen. Since we're lacking militarily, I recommend having Osaka outfit the nation with Pikemen, rather than upgrading our Spearmen (of course, we're weak with Barracks so it may be tough to do that anyhow).
After Tokyo finishes Cathedral (or Marketplace if you switch it), have him start building Pikemen as well.

Turn 9 -- 340 AD
Bengal finishes Temple, begins Worker

Turn 10 -- 350 AD
Zzz

Ok, things are looking good, but not great. Spearman will move to Daggerfall next turn, other than that, no one is auto'd.
At this point, I would emphasize Temples. Tokyo may be switched to Marketplace if you'd rather have that than Cathedral or Aqueduct (although it's probably too early for that), afterwards start Pikemen.

Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/CT4-350AD.zip

ChrTh
LKendter << UP
meldor << On Deck
Erik Mesoy
T-Hawk
 
(0) 350 AD - Wierd, my last turn was 350 BC!
We have NO tech to buy, so I begin upgrading the vet spearman to pikeman.

I cancel workers irragating a mine by Satsuma - this area will need shields when the fp comes on-line.
Some of the other worker actions are confusing, but I leave them alone.

The good news - once the fp comes on-line - most of our cities should be as least somewhat production.
(I) Little Tokyo - marketplace, we need more cash.
Baldur's Gate - Worker
Ramna 1/2 - temple, way to close to the AI cities


(1) 360 AD -
(I) Osaka - marketplace, cash flow bites.


(2) 370 AD -
(I) Aztec / America peace treaty.


(3) 380 AD - India has Chivalry, but no one else does.


(4) 390 AD -
(I) Tokyo - marketplace (notice a theme yet?)
Godshome - marketplace


(5) 400 AD - Buy Chivalry for $82, wm from India.


(8) 430 AD - Use it, or lose it - I give India spices for literature, wm, $2
Yes - WORLD MAP!
(I) Edo - Marketplace
Bengal - Library (slow, but best source for culture up north.



Summary - Tech is going at a slow pace, I think it will be better to get Theology via 40 turns.
Our cash flow is horrid - and we still have plenty of spearman to upgrade.

I hope that America / Aztec will build a harbor someday!

We have a decent chances for Sun Tzu, but we need to clear jungle - hopefully find a shield grassland.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/CT4-450AD.zip

ChrTh
LKendter
meldor << UP NOW
Erik Mesoy << On Deck ??
T-Hawk
 
Lee: Those Workers were replacing the mine with Irrigation so that some Irrigation could be brought up Kagoshima way.
 
It still went that way - I cleared the forest first. ;)
 
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