CTIV-6: Germs! Germs Everywhere!

Sina said:
Please reread the variant rules a few times. There is a death penalty on building forges. (And probably a few other things) ;)

Now, we don't really want a bloody mess around. Can't be healthy.:mischief:

It's not that building a forge would result in death per se, just that the offender would be begging for death before the thread creator got through with him...

EDIT: I also want to remind everyone about the building rules; the cities we've captured are going to need to have granary et al. before we can build barracks, etc. Units, of course, can be built before the required health buildings.

As for attacking this turn: I'm more inclined to be patient; we can't produce troops as fast as typical because of the restrictions on forges/chopping/workshops, I'd rather us try to minimize our losses during the assault.
 
Please reread the variant rules a few times. There is a death penalty on building forges. (And probably a few other things)
Whoops, I forgot that one. :blush: I won't do that mistake in my turn! I promise.
 
mucco said:
while slavery could be really useful to keep our people happy (I also see lots of food bonuses, to recover)
plus, we squeeze out a few more units, too, that way...
 
Gaspar~ said:
Work sucks, I'm not going to be able to get to this til tomorrow eve. Does someone want to swap?

I can't go until tomorrow evening either, so take your time.
 
Well... WW is a *****, nothing much we can do about it. I can dial lux up, but Rome is doomed to starve til Biology, Cumae the same fate, dialing up culture would help a bit, but I'll wait til the next level of WW to do so, nobody is so angry that its killing us. I do think the brothers of the faith thing is garbage when they declare on you though.

Militarily, we have one nice SoD, we could possibly have another, except that I can't move units out of a lot of cities as MP is the only thing keeping them even semi-productive. If we can take Athens, hopefully Alex will crumble. Would also help if stupid Greek ships weren't blocking our ports. Should get Athens, but it looks like its going to be a bloodbath.

Diplomatically, it is what it is. Cathy has Wine we can trade for Gems, gonna do that, every bit of happy helps.

Optimistically hit enter...

(IT) Go 1 for 3 against Greek rifles, perhaps I was too optimistic in thinking we'd take Athens. Also Abu Bakr, GP is born in Rome. 80% chance for a GS no less. Meh. Gonna hang on to him, don't want to GA during war. Realize we already have one, could burn him for Liberalism or join him for cash. Still thinking saving for future GA is the right move. Hopefully that engineer will be able to build something and we'll get a sci or something later. He's fortified in Rome along with Peter.

1730 - Have a tough call outside Athens. Theres a whopping 5 units in Athens, 1 a half-dead cat, 2 rifles and 2 longbows. If we had city raider units, I'd go for it. Without, gonna wait til everyones healthy. Apt, I suppose, given our variant. :lol: So I just mop up the 2 rifles we fought on the IT.

Also spot this mess outside Corinth. Really wish we had a navy.

danger.jpg


No doubt where thats headed. :eek:

1735 - That force lands outside Cumae. Decide to attack first, ask questions later. Kill all but one cat and leave a lone rifle at 0.6 str. That will be handled next turn. Otherwise shuffle units, prepare for assault next turn. We're going to lose a lot of nets soon.

1740 - Suicide 5 cats against Athens, 2 Withdraw. Then send in the troops. Resulting in:

fualex.jpg


Take that, unhealthy swine. On the upside, we've got the Greek Capital. On the downside, think we might be spent. We'll see what Big Al brings on the IT. I would really like to take the Greeks out completely, and I certainly would like Athens not to be owned by cultural pressure, but if I can get anything worthwhile, I will probably sign peace if we can hold Athens. I don't really think we stand much chance of anything other than a bloodbath if we continue on, hes ahead on tech, and we have some lebensraum.

Decide this is a good time to recheck diplo. Cathy says she has enough on her hands right now in regards to war, that means she's building up for someone. Let's hope its not us. A dogpile would mean we're done I think.

1745 - No news is good news. We'll be able to hold Athens, Alex is still disinterested in peace though. I think we might be able to grab Thermopylae, Steel is in next turn. No ironworks sadly, but Cannons are a nice consolation prize. Pretty darn sure I'm heading for Cavs next. I'm pretty sure nobody has Steel, which means I should trade it around, but as its a key military tech, I have no interest in encouraging our bloodthirsty neighbors. I still think a lazy Toku is going to attack us before anyone else. If he ever goes FR we're screwed. Interestingly, the siege of Athens has brought us to 2nd in score. I know better though. :lol:

1750 - Steel in, going after Nationalism on the way to MT. Going to run 0 sci for a few turns for catapult upgrades though. Toku is definitely missionary spamming. That Hindu Shrine alone is keeping him in the game. Going to let stack in Athens heal, then go for Thermo.

1755 - Nothing much, just some upgrades. Alex has the pillagers out in force, but if he has a SoD somewhere, he's hidden it well. Given how crappy the defenses in the Capital were, I can't imagine he has too much more up his sleeve.

1760 - Now have 4 Cannons, turning Sci back on.

1765 - Units healed, marching on Thermopylae.

IT - Lose a Gren to Greek Rifle at Athens, will clean up/shuffle.

1770 - Great Sci born in Cumae. I don't want to start a GA during war though. I fortify him there. There are 3 Rifle and 2 Cats in Thermopylae. Should take it out without problem.

IT - Kill Greek Rifle outside Thermopylae with Gren. I left medic behind and am regretting it. Figured he could catch up after bombard.

1775 - Bombard Thermo to defense 0. Medic one turn behind SoD.

That's it. Thermo will fall next turn, I leave the glory to ChrTh. Nationalism due in 4. People are willing to trade for Steel, but I didn't want to pull the trigger on it. Feel free if you think its a good idea. Have grand total of 4 sleeping GPs, rush the first wonder we can, and we can GA as soon as the war is over. Nearly lost both Cumae and Athens due to stupidity but managed. 10 turns and all I took was Athens, but I think whatever Alex has is spent. Looking at his lands, he didn't have a whole lot to begin with, which is why he backstabbed us, the bastard. Good luck, and remember...

alexequalsyuck.jpg
 
Roster
ChrTh > UP!
pholkhero > On deck!
mucco >
hamtastic > Skip Until 29th March
JesusOnEez > Recovering (wouldn't playing a health-focused SG do him good?)
Sina > Skip until 29th March
Gaspar~ > Just finished
 
I'm playing now since I'm likely to be up in a war-mongering game tomorrow night. Doesn't look good for Alex surviving my turn.
 
Turn 0 -- 1775 AD

It seems like every game I'm in I'm fighting Alex ...

Wow, I'm impressed we have a bunch of great people. I agree that waiting until after the war is the best idea, since we can use the golden age to build up our domain.

I do decide to trade Steel around. But first I trade Chemistry to Kublai for Liberalism.
WOW, I've never got more than fair value from the AI before :eek: I get Economics, Replaceable Parts, and 270 Gold (her treasury) for Steel from Cathy. Rifling is available, so I'm going to wait another turn to (hopefully) keep trading it.

I'm glad to see our unit promotions have stayed within variant rules :)

IT: Grenadier defeats Rifle (came from Sparta, I reckon)

Turn 1 -- 1780 AD

Steel to Liz for Rifling.
I trade Steel to FDR for World Map, 30 gold, and, oh yeah, Scientific Method. Via World Map, we now know where Cathy is.

We're caught up to everyone in Tech. Toku and Liz have Nationalism, FDR has Communism.

And we have oil by Pharsalos. Good thing Alex attacked us.

Ok, assault on Thermopylae. I start by burning off the Cats to wound the troops defending. Lose 2 cats. Next come the cannons, lose 2 of those. Lose a Gren with 83% odds :grr: Another cannon does damage and then withdraws. Gren kills rifle. Gren kills rifle. Knight kills rifle. Cannon kills Cat. Knight kills Cat. Thermopylae is ours, and we capture a Worker.

I use the plunder to raise science to 70% for 2 turns to get Nationalism sooner.

IT: Rifle kills a grenadier in Thermopylae. On the plus side, I think that means Corinth is down to 1 rifle defending it.

Turn 2 -- 1785 AD

Rome: Cannon > Cannon
Neapolis: Barracks > Buddhist Temple

What to build in Athens? Oooh... Sistine Chapel! :groucho: And an Academy. It has an Aqueduct, so I think I'll start with Granary since it's starving.

I kill off the foolish rifle.

Turn 3 -- 1790 AD

Nationalism is in, start Military Tradition.

Shangian: Market > Knight

Elizabeth adopts Emancipation! As if we weren't having enough happiness problems.

Turn 4 -- 1795 AD

Sparta has a Grenadier and a Rifle.

:coffee:

Turn 5 -- 1800 AD
Cumae: Observatory > Rifle
Pharsalos: Aqueduct > Grocer

:coffee:

Turn 6 -- 1802 AD
Rome: Cannon > Rifle
Athens: Granary > Grocer

Cathy starts a Golden Age. Toku ends one.

Start bombing Sparta.

Turn 7 -- 1804 AD

Elizabeth asks us to adopt Free Religion ... er, not until Toku does.

:lol: I accidentally take Corinth! I overmoved a troop and accidentally sent a Grenadier in. :lol: :woohoo:

Turn 8 -- 1806 AD

ACK! Thermopylae has a Forge! :cry: Has an Academy, though, and a Granary, Harbor, and Aqueduct. I start Grocer.

Turn 9 -- 1808 AD

Much moving of troops into Spartan Landspace.

Turn 10 -- 1810 AD

Antium: Heroic Epic > Rifle

Assault on Sparta:
Cannon attacks, does heavy damage to the rifle before withdrawing.
We lose one Grenadier, kill one. Knight kills Grenadier. Knight kills Rifle. Alex is No More.

(See, I told you I'd take him down!)


Well, looks like we're about to have us some builder turns. War Weariness should evaporate next turn. Corinth and Sparta will be out of revolt in 2 and 7 turns respectively. Culture should be droppable to 0%. Military Tradition is currently due in 3, but we can raise science or cash (sitting at close to 1000 gold now) after dropping lux. Might want to start upgrading troops. I DON'T TRUST TOKUGAWA!

It's also a good time to start a Golden Age. If you want to use the Great Scientist or Great Engineer for something other than the GA, you might want to do that first, since I don't know how the 2 are chosen. It'd be a good time to build Forbidden Palace, and we might want to put the Hermitage in Sparta since it's going to to be under cultural pressure from Kublia at some point. Remember to build all the healthy buildings first!

And Don't forget the variant rules!

Here's the Save:
View attachment 120669

Roster
ChrTh > Just finished
pholkhero > UP!
mucco > On deck!
hamtastic > Skip Until 29th March
JesusOnEez > Recovering (wouldn't playing a health-focused SG do him good?)
Sina > Skip until 29th March
Gaspar~
 
Sina/pholkhero:

Sina, do you have time to play once more before you go away? It's ok if you don't.
 
pholkhero said:
I got it now...should i wait??

Yeah, let's give Sina a chance to grab it. It's going to be a 3-person game for most of next week, so if Sina can get an extra turn in now it'll be less work for the survivors.
 
FWIW, I'd hold off on the Golden Age until all of Alex's former cities are out of revolt. Those cities will represent about a third of our overall productivity/commerce.
 
BTW... This game feel a lot like Civ 3 to anyone else? Racing from behind in tech, completely random war declaration, fighting war with inferior units, massive n-fer to achieve tech parity? All we need is a dogpile. :lol:
 
Sorry... I'm on GMT, so slept when you wanted me to play. :)

Just go ahead and play. I have to leave too soon to get another round in.

Well done on teaching Alex the errors of his way. Can't just attack us and get away with it. :lol:
 
I took a look at the save. First of all, we're a bit under toku in terms of army, but we are his best friends. If he wants to attack someone, he'll probably attack an enemy, instead of us. He even has an OB with us! Tokugawa!
I noticed he hates cathy, and she does, too. Maybe she's preparing a war against him.
As for civics, now that we have ended the war we could consider a switch. We could use free speech instead of bureaucracy: the capital loses 7 shields and 15 commerce, but every town gains 2 commerce (so the net will be very positive), and I think we need much culture at the border with mongols. The new cities will be suffering much without culture.
I'd pick slavery instead of CS, because we are only taking advantage of this civic in cumae and neapolis (plus the revolting ones). The gain is very minimal IMO, the GPP pace is still very slow. Slavery will allow us some action at new, food-rich cities, and, at the very least, saves 8 gpt plus inflation. Mercantilism is not providing a great economic boost, either. The "no foreign trade" is hurting our economy IMHO, the other civs still have trade routes with us! We are only losing commerce there. Instead, free market could boost the economy in our coastal cities with a harbor.
Changing these 3 civics costs only one turn of anarchy. Why not? Am I missing something?
 
Well, we didn't revolt because we only got Liberalism during my turn, and I didn't want to switch civics while we were still fighting the war. Now that war is over, there's no reason not to switch.

Toku is friendly with us for now. A large part of that is us both being Hindu. But remember, Alex liked us too and was also the same religion--and still attacked. And Toku is a lot more aggressive personality-wise than Alex.

I'm not saying attack Toku; I'm saying we need to keep building our army, keeping it modern at all points and not to be surprised when the war horn goes off.

Since the goal is space race victory, we may be able to get through the game without expanding any more; I know we were thinking of fighting Kublai at one point, but we might have enough cities now to make that unnecessary.

I focused on military-related techs during my turn, but we should be pushing to get Medicine and revolting to Environmentalism now that war is over.
 
I agree on Free Speech. Its too late in the game for slavery. We have a couple food rich cities that we used it to good effect for a while, but the next labor swap should be emancipation. I like Caste during war for border/economy management, but the rest of the time its usually too expensive unless your empire is especially food rich or large. I'm not a big fan of Mercantalism, but I wasn't going to revolt during war. Since our variant requires environmentalism, I'd probably hold off til medicine to switch out. The civic I would really prefer to see us in Representation, but since we only just got Liberalism, hasn't been an option so far.

As far as Toku, he's just a notorious backstabber, and the AI is generally unwilling to sail far for an AI-AI war of any substance. I'd agree Cathy and Lizzy are more on his badside, but just don't be surprised when you hear the trumpets. :)
 
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