Sina
Warlord
That's the wrong save! 
Please post the correct one. I don't want to conquer Shangian once again.
Please post the correct one. I don't want to conquer Shangian once again.
CTIV-6: Germs! Germs Everywhere!
- Thread starter ChrTh
- Start date
JesusOnEez
Emperor
Errr...Ooops. I'll post when I get home from work in a couple of hours.
JesusOnEez
Emperor
There ya go! Not sure what came over me posting a save from so many turns back!
Sina
Warlord
Got it - take 2-. I'll play tomorrow then. 
JesusOnEez
Emperor
![[offtopic]](/images/smilies/offtopic.gif "Offtopic [offtopic]")
Sorry for the off topic post, but would anyone be interested in joining this SG. We're very short of players due to starting with a lot of noobers who decided to play a few turns and drop out for no apparent good reason.
If you have the time to spare for another SG, please let me/us now in the thread linked above so as not to have any more off topic posts in here.
Sorry again for the off topic, but we're desperate, and it's very early in the game, and you should be able to find your feet pretty quicky!
JOE
Sina
Warlord
Quiet and uneventful turns.
(0)1525AD
Oh wow! Toku has Grenadiers and is up a lot of techs. This is not looking good.
(1)1530AD
Rome: Cat -> Mace
Samarqand: Grocer -> Courthouse
St. Pete is born in Moscow. I sleep him there together with the Great Engineer.
(3)1540AD:
Rome: Mace -> Mace
(4)1545AD:
Cumae: Grocer -> Monastery
(5)1550AD:
Rome: Mace -> Knight
(6)1555AD:
GA for Alex
(8)1565AD:
Lizzy wants OB. Nope!
Rome: Knight -> Cat
Cumae: Monastery -> Bank
Samarqand: Courthouse -> Library
Johannes Kepler born in Cumae and goes to Rome.
Kublai circumnavigated.
(9)1570AD:
Education -> ???? (chose Engineering just to choose something)
Rome: Cat -> University
Great Scientist builds Academy in Rome.
Change Cumae to University.
I stop here because we need to discuss our research path and what to do now. I don't think we can get to space peacefully. Toku and also Lizzy are way ahead of us. We can now try to get some techs for Education.
But I doubt that it'll be enough.
Toku has to be eliminated.
He has not a whole lot of troops and only a few Grenadiers. He'll upgrade though if we declare war on him.
If we declare war, we should be able to take Edo and the gold city on the 2nd turn of war. That means we need a hell of a lot of units and we have only Rome that can produce military. This does not look good.
If we could pull this war off, we'd be rewarded with the holy city of Hinduism and a lot of gold from that. We have a GP if we need to build the shine.
A danger is that some other civs will declar on us as they like Toku much better than us and we are quite weak.
I really don't know what to do!
I quite honestly don't think we can manage to win without eliminating Toku. But then there's Lizzy. And I don't think we can manage a war with Toku either.
Let's discuss.
View attachment 119035
(0)1525AD
Oh wow! Toku has Grenadiers and is up a lot of techs. This is not looking good.
(1)1530AD
Rome: Cat -> Mace
Samarqand: Grocer -> Courthouse
St. Pete is born in Moscow. I sleep him there together with the Great Engineer.
(3)1540AD:
Rome: Mace -> Mace
(4)1545AD:
Cumae: Grocer -> Monastery
(5)1550AD:
Rome: Mace -> Knight
(6)1555AD:
GA for Alex
(8)1565AD:
Lizzy wants OB. Nope!
Rome: Knight -> Cat
Cumae: Monastery -> Bank
Samarqand: Courthouse -> Library
Johannes Kepler born in Cumae and goes to Rome.
Kublai circumnavigated.
(9)1570AD:
Education -> ???? (chose Engineering just to choose something)
Rome: Cat -> University
Great Scientist builds Academy in Rome.
Change Cumae to University.
I stop here because we need to discuss our research path and what to do now. I don't think we can get to space peacefully. Toku and also Lizzy are way ahead of us. We can now try to get some techs for Education.
But I doubt that it'll be enough.
Toku has to be eliminated.
He has not a whole lot of troops and only a few Grenadiers. He'll upgrade though if we declare war on him.
If we declare war, we should be able to take Edo and the gold city on the 2nd turn of war. That means we need a hell of a lot of units and we have only Rome that can produce military. This does not look good.
If we could pull this war off, we'd be rewarded with the holy city of Hinduism and a lot of gold from that. We have a GP if we need to build the shine.
A danger is that some other civs will declar on us as they like Toku much better than us and we are quite weak.
I really don't know what to do!
I quite honestly don't think we can manage to win without eliminating Toku. But then there's Lizzy. And I don't think we can manage a war with Toku either.
Let's discuss.
View attachment 119035
JesusOnEez
Emperor
First off, is it possible to multi-manage our cities so we can create some scientists without losing too much growth/prod? If we can prompt our cities to produce Great Scientists instead of what we've had so far, we could create academies all over the place to double city research output...that's obviously a little more long time. We have the potential for a GA right now to play catch-up if we wanted, but then, if we wanted to GA nearer the Space Race itself, we'd need three different GP's...difficult if we're concentrating on creating Great Scientists.
We're building University's so it may be worth going for Oxford University.
As for war with Toku, we could build a lot of cheap/weakish units to run around his lands and take out all his resources without even touching his cities...we could hold his workers in their cities for quite some time and this approach could really cripple him. We'd need some strong defense in our own cities for a counter-attack though, especially if after ransacking his lands, he doesn't want peace. Even after peace was declared, it'd take him quite some time to rebuild his resource infrastructure and city happiness/health, and this may allow us to catch up with him.
Other than that, any tech that increase out town output would be helpful...aren't we near one now we have Education (sorry, don't have a tech tree near me at the moment to refer to - at work)?
Other than that, the only other way we may catch up is to resort to direct research, i.e. open up the big picture, click on Rocketry and hope we get there without war due to our substandard military...however this direct research will give us the likes of Artillery. Just a thought, and not something that's been tried before as far as I'm aware (probably because it's a crap idea).
We're building University's so it may be worth going for Oxford University.
As for war with Toku, we could build a lot of cheap/weakish units to run around his lands and take out all his resources without even touching his cities...we could hold his workers in their cities for quite some time and this approach could really cripple him. We'd need some strong defense in our own cities for a counter-attack though, especially if after ransacking his lands, he doesn't want peace. Even after peace was declared, it'd take him quite some time to rebuild his resource infrastructure and city happiness/health, and this may allow us to catch up with him.
Other than that, any tech that increase out town output would be helpful...aren't we near one now we have Education (sorry, don't have a tech tree near me at the moment to refer to - at work)?
Other than that, the only other way we may catch up is to resort to direct research, i.e. open up the big picture, click on Rocketry and hope we get there without war due to our substandard military...however this direct research will give us the likes of Artillery. Just a thought, and not something that's been tried before as far as I'm aware (probably because it's a crap idea).
Gaspar~
Warlord
We don't have enough land to get to space unless someone hacks the save and makes this Warlord. Keep in mind also, we'll have terrible production until Recycling Centers, so we can't count on a production edge to get us there. I think we need to kick the war machine into overdrive.
Has someone got Liberalism yet? I assume we have no chance but AIs are notoriously slow to get this tech. All the universities in the world are only going to help so much, out base commerce is too weak atm. My gut instinct is Toku is too powerful for us atm, maybe if we take out the weaker sisters on this island we can generate the kind of strength we need to take out to Toku. If we could somehow get Toku and Lizzie to really war, it would be a big help as well. I don't know what if any leverage we have to do that though.
Has someone got Liberalism yet? I assume we have no chance but AIs are notoriously slow to get this tech. All the universities in the world are only going to help so much, out base commerce is too weak atm. My gut instinct is Toku is too powerful for us atm, maybe if we take out the weaker sisters on this island we can generate the kind of strength we need to take out to Toku. If we could somehow get Toku and Lizzie to really war, it would be a big help as well. I don't know what if any leverage we have to do that though.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Roster:
ChrTh
hamtastic
JesusOnEez
Sina > Just Played
Gaspar~ > Up
Rem > On Deck
Maybe it's time to pick off Alex and add Greece to our empire?
ChrTh
hamtastic
JesusOnEez
Sina > Just Played
Gaspar~ > Up
Rem > On Deck
Maybe it's time to pick off Alex and add Greece to our empire?
JesusOnEez
Emperor
REM has gone MIA from my own SG, so it might be worth putting him as MIA in our roster...I doubt he's going to pick the game up after Gaspar~.
JOE
JOE
Gaspar~
Warlord
Preflight check: Not much MM to do, we're about where we can be. We have to figure some way to get Toku to war, preferably against Lizzy. Alex and Kublai's lands will have to be annexed since Toku isn't an option for a while. We're not really ready for war, but it looks like I have infra turns, so I'll work towards that. Anything that isn't building essential infra will be building units. I suspect Alex will sneak attack us sometime soon. If he declares on Kublai instead though, I'll piggyback immediately. If Toku isn't busy when we declare on Alex, he will join him, he loves him way more than us. Our production is remarkably decent for no forges, but once the AI gets Factories we're toast. As soon as its reasonable, we need to beeline Recycling Centers. Best hope as I can see it is to annex enough territory to keep competitive, trade to stay in the race, and then move and hope Al Gore will research for us. If we win this its no small achievement. Tough lands and a tough variant. At least we have our health
Inherited turn - send Cathy Education for Engineering and Philosophy. Send Roosevelt Paper for Theology and all his money. Switch research to Gunpowder.
1575 AD - And our lovely ally Alex fears we are becoming too advanced. I don't care what the situation is, I'm never nurturing this douchebag as an ally again. Note that every other Civ is still willing to trade with us. Unhealthy scum, may the germs eat him alive!
1580 AD - Antium finishes Bank, starts Uni.
1590 AD - Toku finally switches to mercantalism. This should help us more than hurt, loses all those trade routes. Shangian finishes Bank, starts Cat.
1595 AD - Gunpowder in, start Chemistry. Rome finishes Uni, starts Cat. We're up Gunpowder on a few civs, when we get to Chem, I'd go and shut off sci a couple turns to mass-upgrade maces. I think Grens and Cats should do to take out Alex.
1600 AD - Rome Cat -> Mace. Shangian hits unhappy, so I switch the Cat build to a temple.
1610 AD - Samarqnd finishes lib, starts a rax. Rome mace - > Cat.
1615 AD - Neapolis grocer - > hindu temple. Taj Mahal BIFAL, followed by a Lizzie GA, so thats Engerlands. That would have been mighty helpful, but we never had a choice.
1620 Ad - Versailles BIFAL. That's it really.
Nothing exciting, economy is in slightly better shape. Rome can pump out medieval age military without a second thought. 4 turns to Chem, I think immediately Sci off followed by mass upgrades, then bring the hammer to Kublai first. I say Kublai first because if we can't get Toku in a war, theres zero doubt in my mind he'll jump in for Alex. We can't buy Toku in, because we're nowhere near anything that can buy him in, he just owns us on tech, and he likes us, doesn't love us. Lizzie is the obvious war we'd like to see, since they hate each other, but we can't get either one to do anything, since she also owns us on tech and has the side benefit of hating us. We just picked the wrong ally this game, sorry to say. Not going to bother posting demos, they're distorted by GAs. Suffice to say, we're in good production shape and little else. If we annex Greece and Mongolia, we have a chance.
I have our Galley moving back towards Rome, and a worker headed that way too. We can have him improve that Silk tile outside Cumae. Not sure if we can connect it though, but can't hurt. Sorry for the lack of pictures, but nothing happened picture worthy.
The Save:
Inherited turn - send Cathy Education for Engineering and Philosophy. Send Roosevelt Paper for Theology and all his money. Switch research to Gunpowder.
1575 AD - And our lovely ally Alex fears we are becoming too advanced. I don't care what the situation is, I'm never nurturing this douchebag as an ally again. Note that every other Civ is still willing to trade with us. Unhealthy scum, may the germs eat him alive!
1580 AD - Antium finishes Bank, starts Uni.
1590 AD - Toku finally switches to mercantalism. This should help us more than hurt, loses all those trade routes. Shangian finishes Bank, starts Cat.
1595 AD - Gunpowder in, start Chemistry. Rome finishes Uni, starts Cat. We're up Gunpowder on a few civs, when we get to Chem, I'd go and shut off sci a couple turns to mass-upgrade maces. I think Grens and Cats should do to take out Alex.
1600 AD - Rome Cat -> Mace. Shangian hits unhappy, so I switch the Cat build to a temple.
1610 AD - Samarqnd finishes lib, starts a rax. Rome mace - > Cat.
1615 AD - Neapolis grocer - > hindu temple. Taj Mahal BIFAL, followed by a Lizzie GA, so thats Engerlands. That would have been mighty helpful, but we never had a choice.
1620 Ad - Versailles BIFAL. That's it really.
Nothing exciting, economy is in slightly better shape. Rome can pump out medieval age military without a second thought. 4 turns to Chem, I think immediately Sci off followed by mass upgrades, then bring the hammer to Kublai first. I say Kublai first because if we can't get Toku in a war, theres zero doubt in my mind he'll jump in for Alex. We can't buy Toku in, because we're nowhere near anything that can buy him in, he just owns us on tech, and he likes us, doesn't love us. Lizzie is the obvious war we'd like to see, since they hate each other, but we can't get either one to do anything, since she also owns us on tech and has the side benefit of hating us. We just picked the wrong ally this game, sorry to say. Not going to bother posting demos, they're distorted by GAs. Suffice to say, we're in good production shape and little else. If we annex Greece and Mongolia, we have a chance.
I have our Galley moving back towards Rome, and a worker headed that way too. We can have him improve that Silk tile outside Cumae. Not sure if we can connect it though, but can't hurt. Sorry for the lack of pictures, but nothing happened picture worthy.
The Save:
Gaspar~
Warlord
Couple other thoughts, I didn't revolt Vassalocracy because we already had a ton of units built, didn't seem worth losing the OR bonus while only building units in Rome. If you think its worth it the option is there. I think eventually we're looking at Rep/Free Speech/Emancipation/Enviro/FR, but probably not for a while.
Also, I'm in another SG with Rem and can confirm he's MIA, I'd skip til we hear from him.
Also, I'm in another SG with Rem and can confirm he's MIA, I'd skip til we hear from him.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I got it, then. I'll be playing tomorrow.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I'm playing now (sorry for the delay), I have 63 minutes to make sure I don't pass the 48 hour limit 
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Turn 0 -- 1620 AD
Goal: Prepare for War with Kublai.
Sci Meth requires printing press, I'll have to see if I can trade Chem to Alex for it (but I doubt it)
Everything looks good, I hit Enter.
Turn 1 -- 1625 AD
Catherine wants to trade Gold for Corn...doesn't look like it'll hurt our relations that much, so I go for it. Perhaps it'll get Shangian out of revolt ...
Rome: Mace > Knight
Turn 2 -- 1630 AD
Ok, AI is now willing to trade Astronomy. It's against mine--and FDR's--better judgement, but I trade Gunpowder to FDR for Divine Right. You'll see why in a minute (I hope this works).
Turn 3 -- 1635 AD
Antium: University > Catapult
Shangian: Hindu Temple > Catapult
Roosevelt adopts Mercantilism and Organized Religion.
Turn 4 -- 1640 AD
Chemistry is in. Start Liberalism, but that might be temporary.
Rome: Knight > Grenadier
Shangian: Catapult > University
Samarqand: Barracks > Theatre (I want our copper back)
Dammit, my gambit failed. Roosevelt had gotten Philosophy in the last two turns, and I was unable to trade Chem+Phil to him for Astro.
Ok, I switch from Liberalism to Printing Press. Due in 7 at -10gpt. I'll work on getting economics up a little.
Turn 5 -- 1645 AD
Dai Miao BIFAL
Turn 6 -- 1650 AD
Rome: Grenadier > Grenadier
Antium: Catapult > Market
Cumae: University > Bank
Turn 7 -- 1655 AD
Kublai Khan adopts Mercantilism
Elizabeth's GA has ended
Turn 8 -- 1660 AD
Rene Descartes is born in Neapolis. While I'm tempted to kick off a Golden Age, a Great Engineer is handy to have around....although there's nothing really good to build until Pentagon. Hrm, I'm going to leave this for discussion at the end of my turnset. I put Rene to sleep.
Science down to 60%, still get Printing Press in 3 but at +47gpt.
Turn 9 -- 1665 AD
Rome: Grenadier > Grenadier
Samarqand: Theatre > Lighthouse so it can grow
Turn 10 -- 1670 AD
Catherine demands 160 gold. I refuse to cave in.
I'm going to play one extra turn to get us evened up and prepped for discussion.
Turn 11 -- 1675 AD
Printing Press comes in. Start Replaceable Parts for the moment.
Ok, Rene Descartes will get us halfway to Scientific Method.
Looking at dealing with the AI. FDR is the only one without Printing Press. I trade Chemistry and Printing Press to FDR for Astronomy, Music, 10 gold and his World Map. I know I overpaid, but Toku and Alex have Replaceable Parts and Toku has Scientific Method. The World Map was actually useful because Elizabeth is directly south of us! WOW.
Alright, so here are our options:
Start a Golden Age with the 2 GP.
Research half of Sci Meth with Rene. That'll save us ~4 turns. (not really worth it)
Build an Academy, which is probably our best bet.
We're only 7 techs to Rocketry: Replaceable Parts, Rifling, Sci Meth, Physics, Steel, Artillery, Rocketry. However, we're 18 techs to Robotics ... but only 12 techs to Fiber Optics. Hmmm ...
If we're going to start a war, Replaceable Parts > Rifling is probably the best bet. Kublai is pretty backwards techwise at this point; he doesn't have Chemistry yet.
Done with 10 minutes to spare!
Here's the save:
View attachment 119480
Roster
ChrTh > Just Played
hamtastic > Up
JesusOnEez > On Deck
Sina
Gaspar~
Rem > Skipped
Goal: Prepare for War with Kublai.
Sci Meth requires printing press, I'll have to see if I can trade Chem to Alex for it (but I doubt it)
Everything looks good, I hit Enter.
Turn 1 -- 1625 AD
Catherine wants to trade Gold for Corn...doesn't look like it'll hurt our relations that much, so I go for it. Perhaps it'll get Shangian out of revolt ...
Rome: Mace > Knight
Turn 2 -- 1630 AD
Ok, AI is now willing to trade Astronomy. It's against mine--and FDR's--better judgement, but I trade Gunpowder to FDR for Divine Right. You'll see why in a minute (I hope this works).
Turn 3 -- 1635 AD
Antium: University > Catapult
Shangian: Hindu Temple > Catapult
Roosevelt adopts Mercantilism and Organized Religion.
Turn 4 -- 1640 AD
Chemistry is in. Start Liberalism, but that might be temporary.
Rome: Knight > Grenadier
Shangian: Catapult > University
Samarqand: Barracks > Theatre (I want our copper back)
Dammit, my gambit failed. Roosevelt had gotten Philosophy in the last two turns, and I was unable to trade Chem+Phil to him for Astro.
Ok, I switch from Liberalism to Printing Press. Due in 7 at -10gpt. I'll work on getting economics up a little.
Turn 5 -- 1645 AD
Dai Miao BIFAL
Turn 6 -- 1650 AD
Rome: Grenadier > Grenadier
Antium: Catapult > Market
Cumae: University > Bank
Turn 7 -- 1655 AD
Kublai Khan adopts Mercantilism
Elizabeth's GA has ended
Turn 8 -- 1660 AD
Rene Descartes is born in Neapolis. While I'm tempted to kick off a Golden Age, a Great Engineer is handy to have around....although there's nothing really good to build until Pentagon. Hrm, I'm going to leave this for discussion at the end of my turnset. I put Rene to sleep.
Science down to 60%, still get Printing Press in 3 but at +47gpt.
Turn 9 -- 1665 AD
Rome: Grenadier > Grenadier
Samarqand: Theatre > Lighthouse so it can grow
Turn 10 -- 1670 AD
Catherine demands 160 gold. I refuse to cave in.
I'm going to play one extra turn to get us evened up and prepped for discussion.
Turn 11 -- 1675 AD
Printing Press comes in. Start Replaceable Parts for the moment.
Ok, Rene Descartes will get us halfway to Scientific Method.
Looking at dealing with the AI. FDR is the only one without Printing Press. I trade Chemistry and Printing Press to FDR for Astronomy, Music, 10 gold and his World Map. I know I overpaid, but Toku and Alex have Replaceable Parts and Toku has Scientific Method. The World Map was actually useful because Elizabeth is directly south of us! WOW.
Alright, so here are our options:
Start a Golden Age with the 2 GP.
Research half of Sci Meth with Rene. That'll save us ~4 turns. (not really worth it)
Build an Academy, which is probably our best bet.
We're only 7 techs to Rocketry: Replaceable Parts, Rifling, Sci Meth, Physics, Steel, Artillery, Rocketry. However, we're 18 techs to Robotics ... but only 12 techs to Fiber Optics. Hmmm ...
If we're going to start a war, Replaceable Parts > Rifling is probably the best bet. Kublai is pretty backwards techwise at this point; he doesn't have Chemistry yet.
Done with 10 minutes to spare!
Here's the save:
View attachment 119480
Roster
ChrTh > Just Played
hamtastic > Up
JesusOnEez > On Deck
Sina
Gaspar~
Rem > Skipped
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
LKendter said:lurker's comment: What is BIFAL?
BIADL / BIDL (Build in a distant land) makes sense, but BIFAL?
Built In a Far Away Land
EDIT: I don't think I've ever seen BIADL, just FIADL (founded in a distant land)
Gaspar~
Warlord
I don't think we can be thinking about space just yet. I stand by turning off sci for a few turns for mass upgrades and go to war with Grens. If Kublai doesn't have chem, grens will eat longbows, if we wait til Rifles, he probably will have Grens, which are an even match against Rifles. If we hold off til Infantry or Tanks, we'll be watching Toku or Lizzies spaceship, not to mention if we want to have cities up and productive, we need them sooner rather than later.
I'd use the scientist for an academy, I guess. The one nod to space we'll want to make is making sure we have 2 GPs for a GA during the late game, I'd save the Engineer for something, statue or one of the happiness wonders or some such.
As far as teching, I'd aim towards Ecology. That's what its going to take to get parts done productively, and we'll need Factories/PowerPlants/Ironworks ASAP.
My cynical two cents.
I'd use the scientist for an academy, I guess. The one nod to space we'll want to make is making sure we have 2 GPs for a GA during the late game, I'd save the Engineer for something, statue or one of the happiness wonders or some such.
As far as teching, I'd aim towards Ecology. That's what its going to take to get parts done productively, and we'll need Factories/PowerPlants/Ironworks ASAP.
My cynical two cents.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Hey hamtastic,
It's been over 24 hours, do you have it?
It's been over 24 hours, do you have it?
hamtastic
Hamburglar
Sorry, I forgot I was up. I'll play my turns today.
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