CTIV-9: The Academians

[GreyFox]

This may be a silly question with an obvious answer, but so be it. If you have three Great People of different types available and only need two to spark a Golden Age, how do you determine which 2 GPs are used? Is it random unless you actively select two of them as a group?

AFAIK, you can't select. You get to only select one of them. The rest is randomly selected (or by some rule that completely escapes me). I remember reading somewhere that using ChrTh's method grouping great people will cause two golden ages to be triggered (if you have that many great persons, but I have not tried, so ChrTh may be right, I may be mistaken). An experiment with the world builder should clarify this ... but its time for me to go to work

 

[ChrTh]

The more I think about GreyFox's plan the more I like it. Here are the steps for it:
Merge Great Engineer in Ptah
Kick off Golden Age with other Great People
Start Engine in Ptah (during GA)
Finish Thrusters in the 3 cities marked (during GA)
Research Refrigeration > Genetics > Ecology (started in GA)
Build Stasis Chamber in Ptah after Genetics comes in
Build Life Support in Ptah after Ecology comes in, chopping the woods around Ptah to help rush it (make sure the woods will actually contribute to Ptah when you chop them)

Thoughts? Concerns?

ROSTER
ChrTh -- Stole the Save!
Ruff_Hi -- On Deck!
Maquis
Scowler
GreyFox
JesusOnEez -- UP!

 

[ruff_hi]

Well, if ChrTh can do a sudden swap, can I?

Re GAs - Fox is right (according to what I read somewhere sometime). Selecting multiple GAs will start 2 golden ages (if enough GP around).

 

[ChrTh]

Swap? I guess I don't have an objection assuming you're not going to cause us to lose

 

[GreyFox]

Wow, HC is researching almost twice as fast as us (he finishes Fission in 3 while we finishes it in 6, albiet we had a disadvantage of being first to research the tech). It was a close shave I believe that we beat him to the free great engineer.

...
Build Stasis Chamber in Ptah after Genetics comes in
Build Life Support in Ptah after Ecology comes in, chopping the woods around Ptah to help rush it (make sure the woods will actually contribute to Ptah when you chop them)

Thoughts? Concerns?

The questuion is whether Ptah can finish the Chamber fast enough to start Life Support when available. I think it should, since Ptah is pouring out ~180hammers without the Engineer Superspecialist, should complete the chambers in under 6 turns.

Else, might be necessary to delegate Chamber to Zu Chongzi (and chops those trees around Zu Chongzi to have it finish the Chambers same time or earlier than P'tah when the remaining build time is 2 turns).

And yes, I hovered my mouse over the chop command, and both forests say something like "100hammers to P'tah". Assuming Ptah is producing 200hammers into the last part, that will shave us a whopping 1 turn off the Life Support, and win us the race a precious 1 turn earlier.

-

 

[ChrTh]

I guess it depends on how fast Chongzhi can build it ... and how fast we can research Ecology.

If it's the last part, I'd say chop ALL forests that will go to the city. Who cares if it gets unhealthy as a result?

 

[ruff_hi]

Lastly, WTH is the sign "Ruff Woz ere" doing??? You think you the only one who know how to plant a sign, eh??? SO you like signs, eh????

That wasn't me - I just put a sign there that said "Why did we mine this hill". Someone changed it!

And this is a steal.

 

[ChrTh]

Wow, HC is researching almost twice as fast as us (he finishes Fission in 3 while we finishes it in 6, albiet we had a disadvantage of being first to research the tech). It was a close shave I believe that we beat him to the free great engineer.
-

I wonder if that will help us win the game. The Engine is the part that requires the longest Production time, however, I'm guessing the AI doesn't set research paths based on that. The inability to get a Great Engineer may cause the AI to delay Fusion research (since Fusion no longer appears as valuable) until after it gets Ecology and Genetics.

 

[ChrTh]

That wasn't me - I just put a sign there that said "Why did we mine this hill". Someone changed it!

I saw the sign but didn't comment. I thought it was self-evident that if you can mine hills in advance with workers with nothing better to do it may save you some time down the road (if a new resource appears in it). That said, I didn't mine it

 

[Scowler]

I make no comment on the sign change, but I CAN answer the question as to why the hill was mined. I did it in hope of getting a resource pop-up later - as ChrTh said, why not if the worker has nothing better to do.

Regarding GreyFox's vagrant lumbermill: I suspect that was done by an automated worker as they were all going beserk at the beginning of my round. There were also a couple of unwanted farms in unworkable locations. This is what happens when you liberate the workforce...

 

[GreyFox]

I make no comment on the sign change, but I CAN answer the question as to why the hill was mined. I did it in hope of getting a resource pop-up later - as ChrTh said, why not if the worker has nothing better to do.

If it was done before industrialism, I understand (i.e. it was done in the hope of Aluminum being there). Else, its a waste of time. According to Sirian somewhere in RB forumns, spontaneous resource pop only occurs in worked mines. It function somewhat like cottages -- i.e. the longer you work on the mine, the better chances of it poping a resource.

 

[ruff_hi]

I've looked at the save, MM some cities to get max beakers or hammers and here are my findings ...

Tech:
Ecology (4)
Refrig (3)
Genetics (6)

Parts:
Engine 1600H
Status Chamber 1200H (needs Genetics)
Life Support 1000 (needs ecology)

City Production (ignoring carry over)
Ptah 168H (180H with GPE)
Zu Chonghi 111H (120H with GPE)

Build Times (2nd number is with GEngineer Added)
Build Engine in Ptah (10/9)
Build Status Chamber in Ptah (8/7)
Build Life Support in Ptah (6/6)
Build Engine in Zu Chonghi (15/14)
Build Status Chamber in Zu Chonghi (11/10)
Build Life Support in Zu Chonghi (10/9)

My Best Scenario - adding GPE to Ptah
Critical Path
Tech Ecology (4)
Tech Refrig, Genetics (9) turns
Build Status Chamber in Ptah (7)

Other
Build Engine in Zu Chonghi (15)
Build Life Support in Ptah (6)
Resume Thrusters once tech as completed (7)

Total Time = 4+9+7 = 20 turns

Is there a better option? Of course the GA will help but I would guess that it will not shave 1 turn off.

 

[ruff_hi]

And I have found that you only get the space part bonus from aluminium if it is in the cities BFC. So building a mine to pop aluminium on a tile outside the BFC is not worth the effort - but it does look nice!

 

[GreyFox]

And I have found that you only get the space part bonus from aluminium if it is in the cities BFC

You sure abt that??? I seriously doubt so, because I think no way P'tah can be producing 180H without resource speed up.

And by the way, its Stasis Chamber.

Is there a better option? Of course the GA will help but I would guess that it will not shave 1 turn off.

Yep, it won't. It will shave 2 turns off. IIRC, GA add something like 20% research and production (the manual talks abt the effect of the GA), so given a 8 turns GA, it should shave off something close to 2 turns off research.

 

[ruff_hi]

Report

I spend about 30 minutes testing all the configurations of cities, hammers, beakers, building space parts, not building space parts, etc, etc and get the numbers to put together the above analysis.

I then merge the Engineer to Ptah and kick off the golden age. All my numbers are now useless as the tech path comes down from 13 to 10. Oh well, the concept should (cross fingers) still hold.

Set tech to Ecology (4), start building the Engine in Zu Chonghi (11 with the GA), Ecology due in 3 now with GA, press enter ...

(1) HC completes cockpit, Nappy completes Apollo Program, HC has refrig, wants fusion, press enter ...

(2) no change, press enter ...

(3) HC comes calling asking us to cancel deals with Malinese - NO, Ecology comes in, Ptah starts Life Support, tech set to refrig (3), HC has refrig, wants fusion, ecology, press enter ...

(4) no change, press enter ...

(5) MM completes 2 thrusters, all else the same, press enter ...

(6) refrig comes in, start tech on Genetics, HC now has Genetics due in 5, MM Ptah so Genetics due in 4, press enter ...

(7) we pop a great scientist - almost worthless, but I merge him into Ptah as that city is +250% on beakers (other option was research some of flight!), press enter ...

(8) GA over. Genetics was due in 3 last round, still due in 3 - aggg, all cities set to build Ship parts and MM to max hammers, Genetics still in 3, press enter ...

(9) THE SOUND OF WAR TRUMPETS ....

(I quickly save the game and go to bed)

 

[ruff_hi]

You sure abt that??? I seriously doubt so, because I think no way P'tah can be producing 180H without resource speed up.

Yup - very sure. You see, Ptah has aluminium in its BFC and that is why it has a multiple of 4 while all the other cities have a multiple of 3.

And by the way, its Stasis Chamber.

Status, stasis, static ... blah blah blah ... just another stupid space ship part (but thx anyway).

 

[GreyFox]

Damned ... you rascal, wake up and finish the game!!!

 

[Pvblivs]

(9) THE SOUND OF WAR TRUMPETS ....

(I quickly save the game and go to bed)

ARRRRGHHH!!!

Would say I'm very curious now...

 

[ruff_hi]

yawn ... good morning all.

I open save last night (did you know that I have learnt enough of the keyboard keys to save the game without looking at the screen), hit ctrl-tab for the in-game log and find ...

Ok, feeling much better now, hit enter ...

(10) ...

Suggestions for the next player, hit enter, start Ptah on the last part, wake workers on 'chop these' labeled forests (thx Fox) and hit enter a few times (crossing fingers might be useful too).

--- the end game ---​

 

[ChrTh]

Good turns. JesusOnEez is UP, Maquis is also possibly UP if he wants to swap. If neither get to it by then, I may grab it tonight to put to bed.

HC doesn't have Ecology yet.

Ptah can probably be MM'd (a lot of Engineers) into starvation to get Ptah done faster even with the chops. Every turn counts. Obviously, there's no point in getting it done faster than the other cities.