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Cultivating a dose of Anglophilia!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Cam_H, Jun 3, 2007.

  1. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    I will try to answer on this points.

    LB GA for music getting free GA. I do not see any problem here. Ability to build culture in newly conqured cities, ability to build Cathedrals and safe trade matherial. What is bad about it? LB Divine right, well, marble based religion+ one more prerequisite for Nationalism. We are a bit behind technologically compare to my previous save. We need to speed it up.
    I belive self research Nationalism and taking representation from Liberalism is a best plan. It give as republic, and on the way for democracy, for cottage grow and rush buy. Rigth now my main priority is technological defelopment.

    Music and divine right give as ability to trade for any tech we neeeded in nearest future with out giving AI leg in Liberalism race.

    Actially our capital and Rome is sure 2 legendary cities.
    Our second city I did not like as culture candidate, because it got one food resource stolen from it. But a lot of culture wanders were build there and at the end of the day I can steal it from HE pure production city make me decide on it.
    I never care mach about poluting artist pools. GM in a way is better to GA, as send him oversea for profit to run 100% culture or buy Cathedrals. Yes, this city is near capital, but it is only one that had enogth production and forest near by in order to speed it up. Remember, FP or versales do not only reduce near by cities maintains, it provided second goverment center, reducing civ wide maintance.
    6 religions actially is a good demonstration why we did not really needed to run for early religion. So, what if there will be a block? Not taking religion could make Washinton to get it for example, only creating more problems for us.

    Edit:

    I corrected advice, as I mean Rome, not washington as one of legendary cities.
     
  2. mice

    mice Moose

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    Mutineer, what is your advice for a GA farm.

    also
    Really. 2 govt. centres reduce all maintenace? Does a third, FP reduce it civ-wide even further?
     
  3. Cam_H

    Cam_H Deity

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    Mutineer,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I'm not referring to them as problems or bad moves, I'm trying to encourage some discussion on some points that I think are interesting approaches, or just getting some clarification as to the rationale behind some of the choices. :)

    Lightbulbing with Great Artists

    When going for Cultural, it's been my practice to join Great Artists to cities in the early and mid game, and create Great Works in the end game. I find your approach interesting.

    I guess if you were looking for a 'downside', you could take a Great Artist, have burned it on Music only to find that another tribe on the other continent beat you to it (presumes that you weren't watching your alerts, or just outright unlucky to research Music on the same turn as an AI tribe), while you've got a technology that you really don't need for several centuries yet, especially if you're not going after Notre Dame or a Cavalry bee-line.

    In this instance, as was the case in the last round, you effectively got a free technology which will be required at some later point. It's also trade-bait if you want it to be.

    Again, Divine Right was an interesting move, and upon reflection the addition of another religion, plus a useful trading technology could be comfortably argued as a worthwhile trade-off.

    I just see us with The Sistine Chapel enhancing the cultural output of specialists, and my gut reaction would be to join them to a city and take my chances with self-researching these tech's. With that said, it took me a long time to come to terms with lightbulbing three or four Great Scientists for Liberalism!

    Third Culture City

    Thanks for clearing up that Washington thing! I wasn't sure whether Antium or Rome was the way that you felt the game should go.

    Versailles

    I really envisaged York to be a pretty decent hybrid city with a :gp:-emphasis, and quarantined the Great Artist Wonders there - The Parthenon and The Sistine Chapel, eventually The National Epic, possibly The Taj Mahal and The Globe Theatre. If there's any way I can pop a Great Prophet at the least opportune time, my game will do it to me! Great Artists pop with frightening regularity, but only in my non-Cultural games! I just love contaminated :gp:-pools! :rolleyes: :lol:

    Six Religions

    I'm not that concerned about running into a Confucian bloc either - I hand-picked non-Spiritual leaders, so the 'heathen' penalty at worst won't be extreme. I guess with the push towards Liberalism as you've outlined, and with so many religions within our empire, it would seem that Free Religion presents itself as a very worthwhile developmental option. The decision as to which Religious civic next though will be another interesting dilemma.
     
  4. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    yes thurd does that, effect smaller.

    I will put GO farm in Rome, as it some has food excess. Capital can run burocracy for a time. Second city food poor, to many plains.
     
  5. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Ahh CAM_H, but I do know music is not gone yet.
    Scan log, if you see the line like “Homer born in a distant land” – 90% of the time it is some civ discover music. Homer is the first GA in list.
    There is possibility it is not a case if some civ build pantheon and got GA from it. In our case we build Pantheon and there no other artists in log. So, music was still open.
     
  6. mice

    mice Moose

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    Is there any interest in Pacifism? My guess is that it will be better later after OR for building, and possibly FR soon to boost the tech catch up.

    Also it would be good to be in FR or No State when we meet the other block to try to get at least one pleased civ.

    Q. When rush buying, does the Organized Religon 25% apply ? Also does the resource speed up apply?
     
  7. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I'm thinking that Antium maybe a better legend than Rome particlarly if it takes the town and fish it shares with Rome; two fish will give it plenty of spare food, its got more land tiles to develop. Possibly York as third legend; ancient wonders should provide a good culture base for later multiplication.

    More war does seem inevitable; cats with cover as CKN counter?
     
  8. mice

    mice Moose

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    We have horses now. HAs are immune to first strike I think. Could be the best counter. How about drill LB in the stack?
     
  9. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    You can also tell by selecting Music on the header bar and if it says "First to Discover Receives a Great Artist" in the text in the bottom left corner, then it is still out there, if it doesn't its gone. The same applies to Religions as well.



     
  10. Cam_H

    Cam_H Deity

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    (a.) 'Yes' to scanning the log - I confess I was aware of this, but used the "alerts" term instead, which made me sound 'dafter' than I really am! :crazyeye:

    I guess it's possible for the AI to pop a Great Artist from the influence of building The National Epic or it running Specialist Artists (Caste System or Theatres), but I feel that in most cases you'd be right.

    (b.) The Homer thing is interesting ... so is this for the AI only, because York would have popped the first Great Artist (the one actually burned on Music)?

    (c.) Ozbenno - good trick! I was not aware of that one! Thanks. :)
     
  11. mice

    mice Moose

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    Yes good trick. I presume it works with Economics and Physics too.
     
  12. KMadCandy

    KMadCandy giggling permanoob

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    hi folks i am back to reading about this game. i can't join in. most of all, i will be out of town for three weeks it turns out, not two like i had originally at the start of the thread, and two of those i'll be completely cut off from civ. and there's of course that whole "war" thing :crazyeye:. i'll try not to fill up your thread with 500-word long posts, i really truly will! but you know me and i hope you'll be forgiving *giggle*

    oops i hope i didn't step over that line by the warning signs i saw that Mao was going to declare on us in Cam's save. which wasn't a slam on Cam, i pointed it out because i didn't see anything hinted at in the report that might prompt players to look closely at relations. i'm very paranoid, and have a heavily diplomatic-oriented approach 80% of the time, and i thought at least some players might not have noticed it at all, and might benefit from a bit of advance knowledge about that. turned out to not be much in advance didn't it? but we survived :).

    they are, at least in vanilla, which is the version i have open now and am taking an alt-tab break from and decided to look in on y'all. i glanced at the spoilers but didn't download and peek at the games yet. i certainly will at some point since i'm oh so curious! i have faith in you guys, very much so :). and i do not have as much faith in my ability to be a quiet lurker

    ps welcome mrchadt! i hope that you have fun on this team and playing this sort of game! it's so interesting seeing how the same save turns out in alternate universes, i love it.
     
  13. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Yep and Liberalism. Also tells you if wonders have been built and if a tech will obsolete a wonder you have built (won't say anything if you haven't built the wonder).
     
  14. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    I played the turn set. Well, I know my save can not be chosen, but I think I still can publish it in spoiler tags for anyone who wants to compare and look how I played it.

    BTW, I actually agree that if steal second food resource form Rome, Autum probably better 3rd legendary city candidate.
     
  15. Öjevind Lång

    Öjevind Lång Deity

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    I think Rome should be set to farming GA soon, (as soon as we can afford Caste System), but that London, York and Antium are probably the best cities to bet on for a cultural victory. I also think we should start hoarding Great Artists at this point, not use them for other things. Though settling a GA in York might be a good idea. It could do wonder for generating GA points. Also, what if we can get a Great Engineer to swiftbuild the Notre Dame in York?
     
  16. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Settled GP do not generate GP points.
     
  17. mrchadt

    mrchadt Warlord

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    I played last night not sure how I'm doing.
    Spoiler :
    It's going ok for a normal game, but for a cultural victory I don't know.
    Lots of military not much culture. I was too lazy to take notes on what I did so from memory...
    My basic idea was to beeline to liberalism, I considered mutineers idea of getting nationalism first so we get free constitution but rejected it. I felt for the sake of a few hundred beaker difference it was safer to go for nationalism, a bird in the hand being worth 2 in the bush.
    Well, war with mao was looming so I stockpiled catapults and longbows mixed with some maces and crossbows and horses.
    I noticed that both washington and mao had caravels so war with mao meant I would be pillaged in the sea. So I traded with wasington for caravel tech and got astronomy for free with liberalism.
    These galeons were good for an assault on the jewish holy city which we now have worth 16 gold a turn!
    We have a stack ready to take mao's capital and close by cities to make mao our slave.
    We are 10 turns or so from constitution which is when we will really start to crank up our culture.
    I am also tempted to take washington, the city, as I allowed him, washington, to build(for us) the spiral mineret there.
    We have met the three kings of the orient on the other continent and have traded with them gaining banking and gunpowder.
    I have not revolted into nationalism or mercantilism as I only just got the tech 1 or 2 turns ago, and am also considering pacifism soon for some GA's.
    All in all a fun 40 turns.
    ps. I also have a warlord attached to a HA, he is a healer.
     
  18. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I'm certainly a noob when it comes to culture. At some point we need nine cities each with three religions (assuming we're going for the standard cathedral culture multiplier thing). We also need liberalism for free speech.

    As well as that we've got China not being very friendly and still more powerful than us so we could do with some kind of improved military.

    We could do OR for missionary spam but we'd have to be in a state religion whichis bound to annoy someone. Maybe get three religions in three legends and let them build monasteries to spread to our lesser cities?

    Military wise we're probably looking at muskets before we get a proper counter to chokes but that's a totally different branch to liberalism.
     
  19. Öjevind Lång

    Öjevind Lång Deity

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    My bad. However, they most decidedly help increase the odds that any GP born in the city are Great Artists.
     
  20. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    No, they do not.
     

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