cultural winning in civ 5 is plain stupid
- Thread starter Jim Bro
- Start date
Hello,
if you try to achieve it via a OCC style, it is certainly the most passive way to win, but that doesn't make it "plain stupid" IMHO.
In the OCC, you still have to make sure that you don't get behind in research and steamrolled by Chinese Infantry... (At least, that was my pre-patch .217 impression.)
Another way is to found two or three Cities and then conquering any number of other Cities. If you make them Puppets, they don't increase your Culture
cost for Policies at all but once they build temples and such they contribute to your Culture output. I guess that's the strategy that Kublai Khan would take in CiV...
if you try to achieve it via a OCC style, it is certainly the most passive way to win, but that doesn't make it "plain stupid" IMHO.
In the OCC, you still have to make sure that you don't get behind in research and steamrolled by Chinese Infantry... (At least, that was my pre-patch .217 impression.)
Another way is to found two or three Cities and then conquering any number of other Cities. If you make them Puppets, they don't increase your Culture
cost for Policies at all but once they build temples and such they contribute to your Culture output. I guess that's the strategy that Kublai Khan would take in CiV...
Naokaukodem
Millenary King
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2003
- Messages
- 3,952
Last Civ5 victory: culture (Prince), for the sake of it, as I did it once for Civ4 also... what I can say is that it is very long to win by this way either way... In my last Civ5 game I could have win by diplo or space way before culture...
Yngvi
Chevalier du Tastevin
I find it a challenging way to win; either you have 2 or 3 cities and risk falling behind militarily or otherwise, or with even 8 or 9 cites the culture costs rise and there's always something more urgent than culture. I have yet to win by culture; for me it's proven more difficult than either the spaceship or the diplomatic victories.
That would be the bribery...err....diplomatic victory. Cultural victory isn't a walk in the park.
builer680
eats too much Taco Bell
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2010
- Messages
- 525
I don't think he's saying that it's easy or hard to win a culture victory. He's just saying it's a stupid win condition, regardless of how easy or hard it is. That's how I understand him anyway.
It may or may not be a bit of a weird way to win, depending on how you look at it. I can understand the concept of cultural assimilation, especially from a larger empire. But with a small empire, especially in the extreme case of a OCC, I don't see how that could translate into worldwide cultural domination, no matter how glorious and refined your one single solitary city is.
It's a bit more believable with a couple of cities and lots of puppets, but in general I detest the very idea of puppeting and it's apparent design goal to take your attention away from empire management and forcefully redirect it (ala grabbing your head and physically turning it) towards your units. So, I've never pursued that particular strategy. I've done OCC culture victory just for the variety, just not a few founded cities with lots of puppets.
But... at least with that approach (a few founded cities and lots of puppets), there is, or at least there can be, a significant land footprint for your Civ. It has always struck me as "wrong" in Civ 5 that larger Civs somehow have a harder time exerting enough cultural dominance to win the game in comparison to smaller Civs, no matter the issue of balancing the victory paths for large versus small empires. It just doesn't make sense to me.
In the end though, it just isn't that big of a deal to me. But I can certainly understand why someone else would find it to be a silly win condition... an option just for the sake of having another non-conquest win condition.
It may or may not be a bit of a weird way to win, depending on how you look at it. I can understand the concept of cultural assimilation, especially from a larger empire. But with a small empire, especially in the extreme case of a OCC, I don't see how that could translate into worldwide cultural domination, no matter how glorious and refined your one single solitary city is.
It's a bit more believable with a couple of cities and lots of puppets, but in general I detest the very idea of puppeting and it's apparent design goal to take your attention away from empire management and forcefully redirect it (ala grabbing your head and physically turning it) towards your units. So, I've never pursued that particular strategy. I've done OCC culture victory just for the variety, just not a few founded cities with lots of puppets.
But... at least with that approach (a few founded cities and lots of puppets), there is, or at least there can be, a significant land footprint for your Civ. It has always struck me as "wrong" in Civ 5 that larger Civs somehow have a harder time exerting enough cultural dominance to win the game in comparison to smaller Civs, no matter the issue of balancing the victory paths for large versus small empires. It just doesn't make sense to me.
In the end though, it just isn't that big of a deal to me. But I can certainly understand why someone else would find it to be a silly win condition... an option just for the sake of having another non-conquest win condition.
elthrasher
Revcaster
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 712
What are you trying to say here? That the culture victory is unlikely to be the shortest path to victory? You could do a two city sword rush with the Songhai and puppet everything. Get up to Philosophy fast and your puppets will start building the Mud Pyramid Mosque. With just two "real" cities and eventually 20-30 puppets, the culture win will come up a lot faster than any other opportunities.
Probably do similar now with the Aztecs.
JaeChunDaeSung
Prince
I've pulled off a Cultural Victory under different conditions except OCC, I'd think it'd be too easy to do with only one city, and you'd be a sitting duck if you weren't trying to keep up scientifically (growing your population), maintaining any small semblance of an economy, AND have a sufficient army that detracts jealous invaders.
It helps to not get involved in DoFs or Denunciations, and I'll stick with that even after this new patch makes them only last for so long. Otherwise, some civs will plainly hate you for your "superiority" or "progress", despite definitely outnumbering you in population, technology, or economy.
It also helps to defend yourself for what may come, considering I've once dealt with Catherine (no surprise on my part) declaring war just as I was finishing up. Since the AI likes to observe your economic and/or military prowess or strength, what they say to you can serve as a warning to what they think of you.
It helps to not get involved in DoFs or Denunciations, and I'll stick with that even after this new patch makes them only last for so long. Otherwise, some civs will plainly hate you for your "superiority" or "progress", despite definitely outnumbering you in population, technology, or economy.
It also helps to defend yourself for what may come, considering I've once dealt with Catherine (no surprise on my part) declaring war just as I was finishing up. Since the AI likes to observe your economic and/or military prowess or strength, what they say to you can serve as a warning to what they think of you.
Boogledygook
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2011
- Messages
- 21
I've done it, Egypt, one city but not One City Challenge.
Well. I won but it was stupid. By the time I completed the Utopia Project, I had 7 Civs at war with me, my city was ringed in mech infantry that were the only thing preventing a massive wave of enemy infantry and rifles from overwhelming my city, the population was about 13 million in the one city, happiness was at -17 and had it taken me a few more turns I'm sure my city would have been conquered and destroyed.
Hardly seems like a Utopia to me.
Well. I won but it was stupid. By the time I completed the Utopia Project, I had 7 Civs at war with me, my city was ringed in mech infantry that were the only thing preventing a massive wave of enemy infantry and rifles from overwhelming my city, the population was about 13 million in the one city, happiness was at -17 and had it taken me a few more turns I'm sure my city would have been conquered and destroyed.
Hardly seems like a Utopia to me.
JaeChunDaeSung
Prince
For the lack of money and research one can be capable of with only one city and no puppets or unconnected puppets, yeah, it hardly seems ideal. I can get why vying for it makes you the envy of the world, but still yeah it feels like a weird accomplishment in hindsight.
it wouldn't surprise me if the cost of policies was reduced in a future patch to make culture wins more attractive to the player.
my last culture victory i had 1 city about 20 puppets, and 10 allied city-states( 8 culture ones, 2 maritime) AND it still took me forever to get a culture win. i really could have gone for domination or science with quicker results or even built UN and won sooner.
my last culture victory i had 1 city about 20 puppets, and 10 allied city-states( 8 culture ones, 2 maritime) AND it still took me forever to get a culture win. i really could have gone for domination or science with quicker results or even built UN and won sooner.
Save_Ferris
Admiring Myself
I like the SP idea, just not so sure about the Utopia project. However, I do like this game's cultural victory over Civ IV's.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
I've done it, Egypt, one city but not One City Challenge.
Well. I won but it was stupid. By the time I completed the Utopia Project, I had 7 Civs at war with me, my city was ringed in mech infantry that were the only thing preventing a massive wave of enemy infantry and rifles from overwhelming my city, the population was about 13 million in the one city, happiness was at -17 and had it taken me a few more turns I'm sure my city would have been conquered and destroyed.
Hardly seems like a Utopia to me.
Simple... upon completing the utopia project, the peoples of the world realized that your way was the best way since it survived waves of attack... and they joined with you in your
______ _____ ______ ______ ________ Paradise abandoning their previous leaders
This sounds like a very good idea. Thanks - I might try it.
Like some of the other posters, I had a culture victory just for the sake of it, and had to by pass all other forms of victory just to attain it!
I found that until the advent of broadcast towers, progress was very slow.
Truthy
Chatbot
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2010
- Messages
- 2,203
Not as dumb as diplomatic victory by any means.
yea but why would you let them. they tried to kill you and now that you have a utopia you just let them join. Utterly silly and unrealistic. Culture victory should be that your TV is SO good everyone else watches it on their couch forever until they die, allowing you to take over the world.
Civsassin
Immortal
Diplo victory gets more difficult at the higher levels. The AI are way more aggressive, and they tend to conquer city states often particularly when they are completing quests from another to destroy a rival. My last game, I was playing at immortal difficulty, and I had about three in my stable. It was a constant battle to maintain them, but I managed throughout most of the game. The opportunity for a diplo win came up three times before I completed the apollo project. Each time, the most votes for any one civ was 5. That was because many CSs were conquered, and the remaining ones were hotly contested.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Diplo victory is infinitely more stupid than the Cultural Victory. Diplo victory is lacking UN interaction and manipulation, and CSes so reliant on money for friendship are extremely limiting to the gameplay of the Diplo victory.
I would like it, however, if more AI ganged up on a player about to win a cultural victory...typically their individual armies are weak so they don't do anything (even though banded together they could probably cause enough damage to hamper a cultural victory). I remember that in Civ 4 AI would often do this, but more importantly, AI *knew* how to efficiently win cultural victories, thanks to inspiration from the improved AI mod which Firaxis copied for its patch. I hope Firaxis makes Civ 5 cultural leaders more competitive too, typically Pacachuti only makes 1 city when aiming for a cultural victory, which I find plain idiotic.
I would like it, however, if more AI ganged up on a player about to win a cultural victory...typically their individual armies are weak so they don't do anything (even though banded together they could probably cause enough damage to hamper a cultural victory). I remember that in Civ 4 AI would often do this, but more importantly, AI *knew* how to efficiently win cultural victories, thanks to inspiration from the improved AI mod which Firaxis copied for its patch. I hope Firaxis makes Civ 5 cultural leaders more competitive too, typically Pacachuti only makes 1 city when aiming for a cultural victory, which I find plain idiotic.
