Culture (Unit + Quarter) Speculation Thread

[bite]

i going to assume the Romans are Legion and Forum for the unique items

 

[conorbebe]

I don’t think it would make sense to include a Polynesian culture in the Classical Era. Although it will be crowded, I have my fingers crossed for some representation of this region in the Medieval Era. The Tonga would make the most sense, but I’d love to see a playable Rapa Nui (Easter Island), with Moai and Matato’a (warriors) themed after the birdman cult!

i going to assume the Romans are Legion and Forum for the unique items

Judging from screenshots, it seems as though the Roman EQ will be the Triumphal Arch.

 

[grug]

Which culture of them?

If they narrowed it to a single culture, the Samoans or Tongans which are believed to be the starting point of the Polynesian expansion would probably fit best in the Classical Era. But as with the Goths, who were composed of the Ostrogoths and Visigoths and could be further divided into tribes like the Thervingi or Greuthungi, or the Huns who are associated with varying groups from the Xiongnu to the Hephthalites to the Black Huns under Attila, the varied Polynesian communities across the Pacific were united by a common heritage and tradition as part of an overarching Polynesian culture. Breaking the Polynesian culture into specific cultures would be a bit like breaking up the Goths or Huns, not to mention that there is a precedent for having a single Polynesian culture in Civ V.

 

[grug]

I don’t think it would make sense to include a Polynesian culture in the Classical Era. Although it will be crowded, I have my fingers crossed for some representation of this region in the Medieval Era. The Tonga would make the most sense, but I’d love to see a playable Rapa Nui (Easter Island), with Moai and Matato’a (warriors) themed after the birdman cult!

That's fair. I was thinking that in the Medieval Era kingdoms like the Majapahit or Sri Vijayans may overshadow them as cultures with a maritime tradition that extended their influence along islands in the South Pacific, but hopefully the Tu'i Tonga, Rapa Nui, or even an Industrial Era Kingdom of Hawaii could make it into the game as representatives of Polynesian cultures. Although if there are city states/ minor factions, that may be a better fit for the Rapa Nui as they were largely limited to Easter Island.

 

[BuchiTaton]

I dont see Polynesians make it on the release version of Humankind. Probably fit better for expansion DLCs.

60 cultures certainly sound like a lot of slots to use, but the "10 cultures by era" burn many of them. One example:
China, without doubt China is on the top 3 of most important cultures (civilizations), with a long and diverse history. Each dynasty have options for unique units and gameplay (that is why I am very happy that Humankind would represent this better than CIV). But, we still can agree that this long history of China is mainly the history of the core Han people/culture. There are many other nations/cultures on China, but if we have Zhou, Ming and PRC, those still are mainly Han nations. Meanwhile we have other options strongly related to China that could give us realy different cultures, for example the Tufan/Tibetans on Medieval Era and the Manchus for the Qing on Modern/Industrial Eras, as we could link Mongols and China through Yuan.

Then, for sure we can have emblematic units for Classical, Medieval, Early Modern, Industrial and Cotemporary eras of UK, France, Germany, etc. But doing that, the 60 slots would turn to be the history of just 10 nations/regions.

I would prefer to have a poll of cultures that actually represent the influence of each new culture. Other example:
Instead of just have Phoenicians moving to Africa to be Carthaginians, why not have Berbers on Classical Era to get some nice Numidian Cavalry replacing memelephants? Mix Egyptians with Berbers could be a nice plausible line, and of course on Medieval Era add Arabs to your North African mix. Carthage would still be a result of Phoenicians+Berbers.

With this approach would make way more sense to name our options as "cultures". Also there are going to be more slots for real cultures instead of dynasties or states.

Now, I know that the later eras would be a problem because that time range was dominated by a small group of nations and their popular emblematic units are too attractive to fit this approach.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Judging from screenshots, it seems as though the Roman EQ will be the Triumphal Arch.

It still could be called a Forum and graphically has a Triumphal Arch in it.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

The EU could be an outrigger canoe as a unique transport ship with either extra movement or able to cross deep ocean tiles, depending on how the game restricts naval vessels from crossing open ocean unimpeded. Another option for the EU is either Koa or Maori warriors, which would show the significance of warfare to Polynesian society but come from pretty squarely in the medieval period.

[. . .]

On a reddit post a few weeks ago CatONineTales said that "early ocean travel is handled slightly differently in Humankind than in Civilization, but you'll have to wait for the details." If deep ocean tiles are treated as a hard limit on exploration prior to the compass for other factions then being able to cross these tiles would be very useful for the Polynesians, but if there is some other difficulty that acts as a soft limit, like morale dropping for long voyages or storms, then it might not be all that useful to play them as a faction.

Allow me to be a horrible tease: The restriction is not that early boats are unable to enter ocean tiles.

I am eagerly anticipating some Scientifically Wild-Ass Guessing about what it might be.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Early boats suffer attrition damage on high seas per turn they are out there? allows some high seas adventure but still locking out crossing large areas.

 

[mitsho]

Allow me to be a horrible tease: The restriction is not that early boats are unable to enter ocean tiles.

I am eagerly anticipating some Scientifically Wild-Ass Guessing about what it might be.

What I can think of:

• Ocean tiles take way more movement points <- my favourite
• There's a chance to lose your boat <- realistic and a risk-reward gamble, but may lead to reloads and frustration
• Your boat take damage over time <- meaning you need to calculate, it's better than the option just above since you then now you will lose your boat if you go further on
• There's a thing you need to build or a leaf-teach you need to research <- might clash with what you just posted
• You need to switch something on in your government or religion that takes up a slot which you might want otherwise to have something else in it. <- can't seem to make that work flavourwise
• Instead of ocean tiles not being allowed, the restriction is just x tiles from coast, maybe a lighthouse extends it <- might also clash with what you just posted

Sorry

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

More and more, I realize that my one big mistake going into the current period of working from home was to not stock up on popcorn for watching these speculations.

 

[Cat-du-fromage]

my guess: there will be natural dangers in the oceans like storm, big waves, maybe sea monsters(like those we saw in some historical maps), and early boats will be vulnerable to them.

 

[Siptah]

• There's a chance to lose your boat <- realistic and a risk-reward gamble, but may lead to reloads and frustration
• Your boat take damage over time <- meaning you need to calculate, it's better than the option just above since you then now you will lose your boat if you go further on

I would vastly prefer the randomized first one of these two for the realism. The chance to sink could increase with every tile that you move further from the coast.

For the second option - instead of damage - it would be nice to give ships a kind of supply that is restocked once you are adjacent to one of your cities (or a neutral coastal tile with 2 food yield for example) again. Supply for early ships might be just enough for one or two turns of movement, while later era ships might be able to spend 10 turns without the need to dock somewhere. Supply would be an interesting restrictive mechanic anyway, also for land units - but it can easily turn out to be very complicated and feel too restrictive.

 

[bite]

More and more, I realize that my one big mistake going into the current period of working from home was to not stock up on popcorn for watching these speculations.

You will come to know this well

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Perhaps an increasing chance your fleet will suffer damage the further you go out might be good. Crucially I don't think you'd want to just wipe out a full health fleet but give the player a chance to turn around or continue and risk further damage or total destruction.

There could be some way to represent better built ships? A city with a well developed shipyard quarter could improve ships built there and let them go further. City improvements could also improve ship quality as well as a source of good quality timber and if you are a naval culture they could also add an innate bonus to all ships built.

Put all the modifiers togeather and the game could give you a score of how good your ship is and how far it can travel with little to no risk of damage. It would let anyone commit to leif erikson escapades if they were determined enough while most cultures would probably wait until its easier to get more sea worthy ships in later eras.

 

[Jkchart]

More and more, I realize that my one big mistake going into the current period of working from home was to not stock up on popcorn for watching these speculations.

Just have it shipped to your place. I'm sure you can order in bulk.

 

[shaglio]

• There's a chance to lose your boat <- realistic and a risk-reward gamble, but may lead to reloads and frustration

This is how the earliest versions of Civilization (1 and possibly 2) handled it. Your primitive boats were fine if they stayed adjacent to land. You could venture out onto water tiles that weren't adjacent to land, but if they were there when you ended your turn, you had a % chance that they would be lost.

 

[Jkchart]

This is how the earliest versions of Civilization (1 and possibly 2) handled it. Your primitive boats were fine if they stayed adjacent to land. You could venture out onto water tiles that weren't adjacent to land, but if they were there when you ended your turn, you had a % chance that they would be lost.

Civ III also worked this way IIRC

 

[grug]

Would be very interesting if going across ocean tiles was done similar to missions and bombing runs by airplanes in CivV - so you could go on voyages of exploration away from the shore as much as you want, maybe by selecting a tile within range and sending a voyage to it, but would be forced to return to shore by the end of the turn. So if you are based in Norway you could send a voyage to Iceland, then Greenland, then Vinland, but if you are based in Spain you might be able to find the Canary Islands or Azores, but not much farther than that. Later exploration could go on either much longer voyages or be done manually. Dangers like storms and reefs would be less of a surprise, as any threats would already be present at the start of the turn, but if you accidentally send a voyage into them you would take some damage.

 

[mitsho]

Would be very interesting if going across ocean tiles was done similar to missions and bombing runs by airplanes in CivV - so you could go on voyages of exploration away from the shore as much as you want, maybe by selecting a tile within range and sending a voyage to it, but would be forced to return to shore by the end of the turn. So if you are based in Norway you could send a voyage to Iceland, then Greenland, then Vinland, but if you are based in Spain you might be able to find the Canary Islands or Azores, but not much farther than that. Later exploration could go on either much longer voyages or be done manually. Dangers like storms and reefs would be less of a surprise, as any threats would already be present at the start of the turn, but if you accidentally send a voyage into them you would take some damage.

Oh yes, I so want that (and I think I proposed it once as well). Basically the argument is that while it makes sense for land units to go from tile A to tile B and then stare menacingly at the enemy unit on tile C until a battle starts... but how does that make sense on water? There's currents, you're constantly moving and there are no hills to climb or forests to hide in. Naval combat and movement should work differently, maybe with missions as airplanes do right now in civ6, maybe differently. The thing is, the sea should feel differently than the land, allowing for different playstyles and a different feel. It can also be more pseudo-realistic: While you can hold a line of communications to the General on the battlefield, you mostly just had to tell your captain "go there and come back" since you cannot send a runner after him and he can't ask the dolphins on the way for directions.

But i feel we can delink this discussion into a new thread, since it doesn't really have anything to do with Polynesians anymore who I do see in Humankind, but not in the classical era. And as a subgroup, not a blob.

 

[LeroyChenkins]

Shot in the dark: maybe you have no control over where the unit goes except for general direction, at least until navigation? Also attrition would be very cool. Forces you to set up waystations and logistical points like the Portuguese feitorias, or how the US and now China is building naval bases in other nations/islands