Culture (Unit + Quarter) Speculation Thread

[Krajzen]

Okay, from now on we are getting into truly exciting territory. Huge part of ancient and classical civs was quite predictable due to limited amount of civs and their extreme power disparities. Good luck seeing such game without Egypt, Babylon/Assyria, Greece, Persia, Rome, Phoenicia/Carthage, ancient China, ancient India, Maya etc.

But medieval era? Jesus Christ, the world probably had in this era more diverse powers than at any other period of history. Every region is overflowing with possibilities. And later eras are truly unknowable.

The "necessary" civs for medieval era are imo Vikings, Mongols and Arabs. Would mention more, if not the fact Humankind is bold and had no Celts/Gauls, Han dynasty nor Andean civs, all of which I have considered necessary

 

[mitsho]

We're still missing mystery classical era civ... But yes, let's go back and look at my predictions from around ten weeks ago:

Spoiler :

Oh fun, let me play as well:

(Bronze Era: Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Harrapans, Hittites, Mycenaeans, Nubians, Olmecs, Phoenicians, Zhou)

Classical Era: Carthage, Celts, Goguryeo (Korea 1), Greeks, Huns, Macedonia, Maurya, Maya, Persia, Rome

Feudal Era: Arabs, Aztecs, Byzantium, Franks, Inca, Khmer, Mali, Mongols, Saxons, Vikings

Spoiler :

"Renaissance" Era: Dutch, English, France, Iroquois, Joseon (Korea 2), Ming, Portuguese, Russia, Spanish, Ottomans

Industrial Era: Cherokee, Ethiopia, Japan, Germany, Great Britain, Napoleonic Empire, Moghuls, Sweden, Thirteen Colonies, Zulu

Modern Era: Australia, India, Iran, Italy, PRC, Nazis, Turkey, USA, Soviets, Vietnam

I'm still quite okay with that list.

Inca and Aztecs could be Early Modern, but I feel it makes more intuitive sense for them to be medieval while the Spanish Conquistadores are Early Modern.

We should maybe have another East Asian Faction in there. That Japan or Korea can take the spot of the awkwardly placed Saxons.

But are Franks + Vikings enough to represent the whole of European cultures? It's the medieval era after all. I am struggling though to find a good name for the Holy Roman Empire (no! no!). So, Teutons? There could also be Slavs, but I think Vikings can represent Russia when the Mongols come knocking.

They are also my reason for the Byzantines who we don't really need: It just makes such a good scenario roster: Vikings, Saxons, Franks, Byzantium and Arabs...

 

[need my speed]

Okay, let's do predictions then, ten civilisations for the medieval era. Which ends at about the renaissance ('early modern era')?

1. Arabia (/ Mamlukes)
2. Byzantium
3. Denmark (/ Vikings)
4. Holy Roman Empire
5. Khmer
6. Mali
7. Ming China
8. Mongols
9. Poland
10. Tawantinsuyu (/ Tiwanaku / Incas)
(honorary contenders: Chola India, Seljuks, Goryeo Korea, Tibet - but Tibet is more Classical, I suppose)

And while we're at it; Early Modern Era:
1. Aztecs (questionable, should probably go in Medieval, but to give this an exploration focus...)
2. France
3. Haudenosaunee
4. Italy (/ Venice / Genoa)
5. Joseon Korea
6. Kongo
7. Mughals
8. The Netherlands
9. Ottomans
10. Spain
(honorary contenders: Austria, Edo Japan - but Meiji Japan will be in the Industrial Era, I suspect - Russia - but Russia goes to the Industrial Era, I suspect - Safavid Persia, Songhai, Portugal)

 

[j51]

Depending on what the last classical culture is, I'm nearly certain that the Medieval Era will have:

Arabs, or Abbasids, Ummayads, etc. (city style seen, as was unit on tech tree)
Aztecs (we've seen their city style)
Capetians, or Franks maybe (but the tech tree said "Capetian" cavalry, which has been seen, as well as their probable city style too),
Ghana or Mali (there was a unit for them on the tech tree),
Heian (unless there's a Japanese culture in Classical. I vaguely remember a Samurai unit in early screen shots),
Inca (The only one with no evidence, but c'mon, please, don't hold 'em back like Civs 5 & 6!),
Khmer (probable splash art revealed; mentioned in articles),
Mongols (seen on that map and their horde on the tech tree),
Teutons (probable city style and splash art revealed; unit on tech tree),
Vikings or Norse (seen in screen shots and probable splash art)

It gives me no pleasure to leave the Byzantines out, but the evidence as of now points to "they'll have to wait chief," and, honestly, that makes sense given the limit of ten per era and how rich in documented cultures the Middle Ages were especially.

 

[j51]

Here's my Early Modern guesses if any one cares:

Dutch (Fluyt unit on tech tree),
Haudenosaunee (I think a unit has been spotted in a screen shot or two),
Joseon, or Korean (Hwacha seen in a screen shot, and Turtle Ship on that tech tree.)
Ming (probable splash art; mentioned in other places),
Mughal (no evidence, but gotta be, right?),
Ottoman (on that map),
Polish-Lithanian (Winged Hussar unit spotted),
Spanish (on that map),
Swedish (seen in the last video, but hopefully they're Industrial, because that's a much less crowded era.),
Venetian (Galleass on the tech tree)

After the Early Modern era there's a lot less evidence to go on. Also, I'm guessing the tech tree and maps in that video where from very early dev stages and might not be the best evidence for some of the above. (At least I hope so. I'd much rather have Kongo, the Safavids, or Portugal than Venice, or Sweden in this era.)

 

[Siptah]

I think the Teutons are all but confirmed due to the card and the screenshots. So Europe will at least have them, Vikings and whoever yields the Capetian Knights in the medieval era. Venice would be an interesting addition to those three.

in my original list from some weeks ago, I also had the Arabs in some form, the Aztecs, Korea, the Mongols and Tibet. Khmer are also all but confirmed.

Mali and Pueblo would round out the package nicely. Yet, they are too many already...

 

[ehecatzin]

It gives me no pleasure to leave the Byzantines out, but the evidence as of now points to "they'll have to wait chief," and, honestly, that makes sense given the limit of ten per era and how rich in documented cultures the Middle Ages were especially.

I'm certain we've seen hippodrome and a city center that has byzantine style walls.

 

[Krajzen]

My guess for medieval is
(Bolded are confirmed)

Mongols - militarist
"China" or "Korea" - ?
Khmer - agrarian
Arabs - scientist
Byzantium - builder, maybe aestethe
Vikings - militarist
Franks - expansionist
England - aestethe, maybe builder
Zimbabwe or Swahilli - merchant
Aztec - militarist

My reasoning:
*Khmer agrarian because their agricultural techniques were insane; either that or builder, but I have no other candidate for agrarian maybe except China/Korea
*Arabs scientist because come on (and besides, there is no "religious" )
*Byzantium builder because of Haghia Sophia, Constantinople's walls, general defensive bent, hippodromes etc. That or aestethe.
*Vikings militarist because tbh their territorial *conquests* weren't that giant or stable, it was largely for plunder, and merchant Viking civ would be quite anticlimactic
*Franks are an umbrella civ under which we put Franks, Charlemagne, France, Holy Roman Empire etc etc complicated distinctions, and expansionist because no other European civ this era deserves this anyway
*England appears here, not in early modern (unlike Spanish or Dutch), because it was simply too damn important for medieval Europe. Either builder (of castles) or aestethe (medieval art, Arthurian legends and other literature etc).
*Zimbabwe or Swahilli because I desperately hope for them not to copy Mali from Sid Meier and besides both options are possible only in this era, which also needs merchant civ
*Aztecs because Inca better borderline fits exploration era, and besides so far we didn't get aby Andean civs at all despite many candidates, so we may get no Inca as well until expansion which adds this "regional branch"

 

[ehecatzin]

My guess for medieval is
(Bolded are confirmed)

Mongols - militarist
"China" or "Korea" - ?
Khmer - agrarian
Arabs - scientist
Byzantium - aestethe
Vikings - militarist
Franks - expansionist
England - builder?
Mali or Swahilli - merchant
Aztec - militarist

My reasoning:
*Khmer agrarian because their agricultural techniques were insane; either that or builder, but I have no other candidate for agrarian maybe except China/Korea
*Arabs scientist because come on (and besides, there is no "religious" )
*Byzantium aestethe may seem weird at first but wait. There are already too many militarist civs and Byz was defensive, which also disables expansionist. No other obvious aestethe candidates anyway, and they did Haghia Sophia.
*Vikings militarist because tbh their territorial *conquests* weren't that giant or stable, it was largely for plunder, and merchant Viking civ would be quite anticlimactic
*Franks are an umbrella civ under which we put Franks, Charlemagne, France, Holy Roman Empire etc etc complicated distinctions, and expansionist because no other European civ this era deserves this anyway
*England appears here, not in early modern (unlike Spanish or Dutch), because it was simply too damn important for medieval Europe. Builder as in "builder of castles" and besides I had no other idea.
*Mali or Swahilli as they are the most spectacular Subsaharan civs in medieval era, also brilliant merchant candidate (I honestly hope they pick Swahilli, to copy less civs from Sid Meier : P )
*Aztecs because Inca better borderline fits exploration era, and besides so far we didn't get aby Andean civs at all despite many candidates, so we may get no Inca as well until expansion which adds this "regional branch"

For the east Asian spot I would go with Heinan/Kamakura, I'm thinking east Asia will go something like:

Bronze- Zhou
Classical - Silla
Medieval - Heinan / Kamakura
Early modern - Joseon - Ming
Industrial - Japan (Meiji)
Modern - CCP, Korea

For England I'm not so sure they'll get the medieval spot given we have seen the Teuton card, I think the British medieval spot should be filled by either Anglo-Saxons, Angevins or Normans (and now that I think about it that would be a very nice DLC)

1-Arabia
2-Aztec
3-Byzantium
4-Franks/Capetian
5-Heinan/Kamakura
6-Khmer
7-Mali
8-Mongols
9-Teutons
10-Vikings

 

[Gwydden]

East Asia is not represented at the moment, so I do think the last Classical civ will be either Yamato or Silla. As for the Medieval ones, some are semi-confirmed:

1. Khmer: Agrarian or Builder.
2. Teutons: Militarist or Expansionist, with Teutonic Knight as emblematic unit. Incidentally, the art makes me think Marienburg will make it in somehow, maybe as a wonder.
3. Vikings: probably Militarist, but Expansionist and Merchant are also possibilities. Hopefully they'll go for Longboats instead of the Berserk.

For the rest, my guesses are:

4. Franks: most tags could fit, but my guess is Aesthete or maybe Agrarian. This would represent the medieval French in general, not just the Carolingians. I'm guessing this because the developers are French, France was culturally influential in the High Middle Ages (it's arguably the quintessential medieval kingdom viz a viz the popular imagination), and English elites were culturally French for a big chunk of the Middle Ages anyway. Aesthete and Agrarian reflect the twelfth century renaissance well. For emblematic building probably a castle or cathedral; for emblematic unit a mounted knight. They can save the name "France" for a later iteration.
5. Abbasids: Scientific. It'll probably be Arabs, but I find that a bit of a blob civ. This facilitates the addition of other medieval Muslim nations down the line. The madrasa might make a good emblematic quarter.
6. Byzantines: Builder or Aesthete. Too important to pass up, and perfect as a successor to the Classical Romans.
7. Sassanids: Expansionist. They could have been a Classical civ too, but I think they fit better alongside the Byzantines and an Arab civ. There was a hint of future Iranian civs in the Persia thread.
8. Mongols: Militarist or Expansionist. Easily one of the most important medieval civs, and a good successor to the Huns in-game.
9. Aztecs/Inca: Militarist, Expansionists, or Builder. Either or both of the two would do, but a medieval American civ is necessary, and these are the best known.
10. Mali/Zimbabwe: definitely Merchant. Similar logic as number nine; Subsaharan Africa needs a civ to represent it.

An alternative to the Franks would be the Normans, which fit nowhere else and are a pretty big deal this era. But I seem to recall something that made me think the French would be in for the Middle Ages specifically, though I struggle to remember what exactly. Plus the Normans somewhat overlap with the Vikings.

India already has two civs and I'm pretty sure they'll get at least one more down the line, so I don't see any medieval Indians making it in (the Gupta, Chola, and Delhi Sultanate would all be strong choices, otherwise).

Much more tentative guesses for Early Modern:

1. Ming: Builder or Aesthete. Confirmed, I believe.
2. Japan: Militarist. It probably won't be called "Japan" per se, but this is how I picture the samurai making it in. It makes sense to make them contemporary with the Ming.
3. Spain: Expansionist. This is the Spanish golden age; no way they're skipping it.
4. Ottomans: Militarist or Expansionist. They start out in the Middle Ages, but peak here.
5. Mughal: practically anything fits, but my guess is Builder. Another Indian civ.
6. Portugal/Netherlands: Merchant. Either would fit the niche of maritime European civ.
7. England: Expansionist. This is the last chance to have them in rather than Britain (which will definitely be an Industrial civ).

Plus a Subsaharan African civ, a Native American civ, and a Southeast Asian civ.

 

[Siptah]

Next up medieval.
My list from a few months ago:

Abbasids - still a valid bet, maybe not under this name
Aztecs - confirmed
Holy Roman Empire - Teutons highly likely, they will take the HRE spot
Korea - sure bet, maybe different name
Mali - still believing in it
Mongols - almost confirmed
Pueblo - unlikely, I replace it with the Franks, that were spotted in the tech tree
Tibet - unlikely, yet hope dies last . Edit: should really be Khmer.
Venice - either here or in Early Modern, but for me, it would fit better in here actually
Vikings - confirmed

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Next up medieval.
My list from a few months ago:

Abbasids - still a valid bet, maybe not under this name
Aztecs - confirmed
Holy Roman Empire - Teutons highly likely, they will take the HRE spot
Korea - sure bet
Mali - still believing in it
Mongols - almost confirmed
Pueblo - unlikely, I replace it with the Franks, that were spotted in the tech tree
Tibet - unlikely, yet hope dies last
Venice - either here or in Early Modern, but for me, it would fit better in here actually
Vikings - confirmed

The Khmer were also confirmed so they would go in this era somewhere.
My ideal list would be this, but it's probably not going to happen:
Abbasids/ Arabians (Scientist)
Aztecs (Militarist)
Byzantines (Aesthete)
Carolingians/Franks (Aesthete or Militarist) I think the Teutonic Order/HRE will be in it too, though I would prefer the combination of Medieval France and Germany than be separate.
Inca (Builder)
Kamakura Japan/ or Silla (Aesthete)
Khmer (Agrarian)
Mali (Merchant)
Mongols (Expansionist)
Vikings (Militarist)

Edit: Put in traits

 

[Siptah]

The Khmer were also confirmed so they would go in this era somewhere.
My ideal list would be this, but it's probably not going to happen:
Abbasids (Could just be called Arabians)
Aztecs
Byzantines
Carolingians/Franks (I'd personally combine the ideas of both Medieval France and Germany, but I don't think it will happen)
Inca
Kamakura Japan (Probably will be Silla though)
Khmer
Mali
Mongols
Vikings

right, forgot about the Khmer, they should take Tibet's place in my list.

 

[conorbebe]

My prediction for the Medieval Era is as follows:

1. Arabians/Abbasids
2. Aztecs
3. Chinese/Korean/Japanese culture
4. Franks
5. Khmer
6. Malians
7. Mongolians
8. Pueblo
9. Teutons (Holy Roman Empire)
10. Vikings (Norwegians)

I know it's a bit of a cop out not to decide on one East Asian culture, but I really haven't a clue. We know Samurai are going to be in the game, so predicting Kamakura would make sense, but I feel like the Edo period of Japan would be a strong bet for Early Modern, and I'm not confident we'd see Japan represented twice in a row. Korea is an odd one as both of the most prominent dynastic kingdoms (Silla and Joseon) fall on the boundaries of the Medieval Era, and I'd rather see one of them over Goryeo personally. Meanwhile I haven't a clue where you'd place the Ming dynasty of China, but I'm guessing Early Modern?

Really hoping the Pueblo make it in. The Medieval Era experienced the height of their culture, and I think it would be a real shame if they didn't get any representation.

EDIT: Just realised Venice probably has to fit in here somewhere. Not looking good for the Pueblo :/

 

[Krajzen]

Okay so now when we know classical era my types for medieval are

Aztec - militarist
Mali or Swahilli - merchant
Arab - scientist
Byzantium - aestethe (art)
HRE - expansionist
Franks - builder? (castles)
Vikings - militarist
Mongols - militarist
Ming - no idea, scientist?
Khmer - agrarian


Why Ming, not Korea or Japan? Because Korea and Japan had their truly interesting eras and units after late medieval. Early modern Korea would be Joseon (with a room for second modern incarnation of "Korea") with iconic hwacha or turtle ship, while EM Japan would be Tokugawa with Samurai, as Sengoku period and Imjin war was 16th century, not medieval.

Early modern would be for example:

Ottomans - expansionist
Joseon - scientist
Tokugawa - militarist
Kongo - aestethe (art)
Inca - builder
Spain - expansionist
France - scientist
Netherlands - merchant
Mughals - expansionist
Safavids - aestethe/builder

 

[BuchiTaton]

With Celts in, now I think that each era is mainly regional based, with cluster of cultures:

- ANCIENT
* (The Fertile Crescent Gang) Egyptian, Phoenician, Babylonian, Assyrian, Hittite, Mycenaean, Nubian (7 cultures)
* (Especial Guests) Zhou, Harappan, Olmec (3 cultures)

- CLASSICAL
* (Rome and Friends) Roman, Greek, Goths, Celts, Hunnic, Carthaginian, Persian (7 cultures)
* (Especial Guests) Aksumite, Mauryan, Mayan (3 cultures)

So what is going to be Medieval theme?
- MEDIEVAL
* (Deus vult!) Frankish,Teutonic, Anglosaxon, Norse, Byzantine, Saracen, Mongolian (7 cultures)
* (Especial Guests) Malian, Khmer, Aztec (3 cultures)

- EARLY MODERN
* (Europa...Universalis) Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Austrian, English, Polish, Ottoman (7 cultures)
* (Especial Guests) Ming, Joseon, Mughal (3 cultures)

- INDUSTRIAL
* (Victorian-palooza) British, French, Prussian, Russian, Italian, American, Zulu (7 cultures)
* (Especial Guests) Japanese, Siamese, Afghan (3 cultures)

I would not be surprised to have at least half of the remaining cultures being european or european offshots.

 

[VermelhoRed]

I don't think that each era will be "regional based", I think basically Europe will take most civ spots in all the next eras since it's a game made by a western european company in a world that has been culturally dominated by western european culture

 

[Gwydden]

I'm going to be more specific and try to guess which civ they'll be revealing next week. Irregardless of today's anomalous occurrence, I expect they'll mostly stick to alphabetical order. So, I see three options:

a. Abbasids/Arabs (Scientific). If the spreadsheet I posted in the other thread is correct, we might be getting Umayyads instead. Otherwise, I expect this will be the first Medieval reveal. Emblematic unit would be mamelukes if Arab blob, faris (Arabian knights!) if Abbasids; the emblematic district would be the madrasa.
b. Aztecs (Militaristic). Almost certainly in, unless we get Inca instead. Emblematic unit would be one of the Aztec knightly orders, likely the Eagle or Jaguar Warriors. Emblematic district would be the chinampa.
c. Byzantines (Aesthete). Cataphract for the emblematic unit. For the emblematic district, either a hippodrome or a katholikon (or some other fancy name for Byzantine church architecture).

EDIT: Remembered Anglo-Saxons, but I don't think they're likely because 1. English seem more likely in Early Modern and in Late Modern under Britain—a third time seems a bit much; and 2. no archetype fits them particularly well other than Militaristic, which is likely taken up by Aztecs and Vikings.

 

[BuchiTaton]

I don't think that each era will be "regional based", I think basically Europe will take most civ spots in all the next eras since it's a game made by a western european company in a world that has been culturally dominated by western european culture

Honestly you are 100% right about it. But I like to remember that anecdote about AoE2:The Conquerors, when the development team was pressed to add Koreans to exploit Starcraft popularity on South Korea. So one dev said something like "there is a Korean faction on Starcraft?"

They ended adding Koreans, but the game was not more popular on Korea because it. There are also some hints about the original idea of Magyars, whos design ended being for Huns because they are more popular than Magyars, and we all know that Magyars fit way better on a medieval game than Huns.

10 civs by era should be enough to have at least one culture from Europe, West Asia, South Asia and East Asia, even Africa and America, and you still have 4 for additional cultures on the busiest regions.

For me Classical era could have been perfect just by adding an East Asian culture instead of Goths. I mean we would have many germanic cultures on later eras, could not leave Goths for an expansion?

 

[grug]

I have to say, I honestly hope that English/ Anglo Saxons with Longbowmen are not in the medieval era on release. I read in one of the articles that they would be present, probably to represent the hundred years war. When it looked like the Celts were not present, I figured any old information was unreliable, but now I'm reevaluating and I'd guess that the English will be present.

The English on medieval seems a bad choice in my opinion for a number of reasons. If you want naval powers, there are Majapahit, Swahili, and Polynesia who will likely go unrepresented on release. If you want to represent dramatic conflicts, there are the Mamluks for the Crusades (as opposed to just as a unit for the Arabians) and the Sassanians for the Islamic Conquests and Byzantine-Sassanian Wars who have not been mentioned in any of the released material so far. If you want to focus on a region of the world that blossomed in that period there are the Toltecs, Puebloans, and Mississippians in North America or the Chola, Majapahit, Swahili, and Great Zimbabwe along with the Arabians and Khmer for the Indian Ocean trade who of course can't all fit but are likely to be entirely absent. If you want predecessors to more famous states there are the Toltec, Tiwanaku, or Tran Dynasty Vietnam. If you want interesting ranged units there are early gunpowder weapons in East Asia like Song fire lances, Dai Viet cannons, Javan warships, and Korean hwachas.

I understand that this game has to sell, and that developments in medieval England would have huge repercussions on the fate of the world due to Britain's rise to power in future eras, but I feel like it would be a lost opportunity to have the English. They will certainly be present as the British Empire and UK anyways, and would fill a culture slot in the Medieval Era when other regions of the world were doing the best they would for centuries before the turmoil to come with the arrival of imperialism. I still have faith in the game, but I really was expecting someone else outside Europe for the Classical Era instead of the Celts, and while I can recognize the Celt's importance I really hope the Medieval Era doesn't have 50% of the cultures be European on release.