Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[Mr_Hobo]

I don't think I will. The Valley of Mexico is just too small for that.

Isn't that why we have city-states though? Italy, and maybe Carthage and Greece are really the only prime contenders for city-states usage when going for the UHV's. Given a few small adjustments, the Aztecs could have a fairly unique playstyle. Right now they're not all that interesting, and even the new goals don't seem to set them apart.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I agree with Mr_Hobo. Aztec seems to me a perfect candidate for City States both for historical and game play reasons.

 

[Mr_Hobo]

In my opinion, the best part is that the Aztecs can immediately make war on the independent cities. This gives their units experience, and makes the Aztecs different from the other settler-based civs since they will be fighting right from the beginning.

If the basin is made food rich but fairly hammer poor, the Aztec building UHV would then require the player to balance whipping cities against sacrificing slaves. A "settle slaves" goal would require a further balance, which could be interesting.

 

[Leoreth]

You forgot to add Vikings to the trading company civs, both Sweden and Denmark had trading companies.

Yes, but Scandinavian colonies didn't have historical significance at the scale of this mod.

Quick comment: Tisfun and Herat should have Zoroastrianism at the start, while Merv, Samarkand and Kashgar should have Buddhism (and maybe Herat, too). They'll lose it on flip/conquest by the Arabs or Seljuks, but the historical accuracy would be nice.

Yeah, sure.

bump (was posted when you were gone).

Makes sense.

How about a Bamayan Buddha statue wonder?

To what end? Buddhism in Afghanistan was on the decline after the Arab conquest.

That last update broke something and broke it bad, the whole UI is incredibly choppy to the point of unplayable.

Can someone confirm? For me everything works.

Isn't that why we have city-states though? Italy, and maybe Carthage and Greece are really the only prime contenders for city-states usage when going for the UHV's. Given a few small adjustments, the Aztecs could have a fairly unique playstyle. Right now they're not all that interesting, and even the new goals don't seem to set them apart.

I think you misunderstood. The original city states that Tenochtitlan was fighting or forming the Triple Alliance with were all situated at Lake Texcoco, i.e. on the same tile in the game map. The map doesn't allow for historical Aztec enemies to fight, and I won't invent some. You still can settle your cities close and use City States of course ...

 

[Cosmos1985]

While we're in the area, is it really intended that the Samarkand sheep is just out of its BFC?

 

[Mr_Hobo]

I think you misunderstood. The original city states that Tenochtitlan was fighting or forming the Triple Alliance with were all situated at Lake Texcoco, i.e. on the same tile in the game map. The map doesn't allow for historical Aztec enemies to fight, and I won't invent some. You still can settle your cities close and use City States of course ...

Ah, I did misunderstand, sorry. What I meant was that the "Tenochtitlan" tile should represent all the city-states around Lake Texcoco, as it presumably does now. Other cities in the area could represent the Tarascan capitol (while not on the water, it is relatively close) or the Zapotec capitol (Monte Alban had not yet been abandoned by the time of the Aztec spawn). The Triple Alliance fought against these empires, which were also collections of city-states.

Including these may still be slight stretches in terms of the map, however.

Spoiler :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarascan_state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzintzuntzan_(Mesoamerican_site)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Albán

EDIT: Here's a map showing the cities (map is huge, sorry)

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, and now compare the small red area on the world map to the number of tiles it would occupy in the RFC map. It's the one tile neighborhood of Tenochtitlan for the most part, at least the interesting polities.

 

[Mr_Hobo]

Fair enough, but Tehuantepec is far enough away that it could go just south of the stone. And Tzintzuntzan or Colima could go 2 E 1 N.

I will drop this if you want me to, however. I don't mean to be annoying.

 

[Leoreth]

You are not annoying. We only have different opinions and are arguing about it. This is a good thing!

I'll definitely go see how it would look in the game, but don't expect too much.

 

[Mr_Hobo]

Well this is the second thread in which I've pushed for this Here's my idea for a map change:

Spoiler :

The north city could be Colima or Tzintzuntzan and the southern city could be Tehuantepec. I would also get rid of the hill where Tenochtitlan is, because settling 1 E from it would allow a mined-flood plain- hill which could be too good.

 

[Leoreth]

But that raises the question of how Tenochtitlan will manage to grow to become the largest city in the world, which is hard enough as it is in the current setup. And I don't want to lose that goal.

 

[Mr_Hobo]

Yeah, I agree. ~1500 the largest cities were around size 12-13, and that's definitely doable. Tenochtitlan can grow to at least 17. What size were the other contenders at the time of that UHV?

EDIT: Were you accounting for the food bonus from city-states?

 

[Leoreth]

I had one game where I managed to grow to 16 (17 was possible but I couldn't get enough health in time) without the new flood plains, when I was tied with London and beaten by a size 17 Edo. That was completely without City States, but that's not a very helpful civic to grow to such sizes anyway, because I wasn't working any plots that yield no food (the only thing a specialist would be preferable to), and definitely worked more than 7 tiles. Also, I very much needed the happiness from Dynasticism.

 

[Mr_Hobo]

I got Drama and used the culture slider for happiness with the amphitheater and theater. What improvements were you using on the hills? Windmills?

I also popped a GM, which pushed me over.

EDIT: I also had extra health from the fish and clam, would that be enough?

 

[Leoreth]

Using the culture slider is a good idea, but I didn't research Drama. And I didn't get the sea food quickly enough.

 

[Mr_Hobo]

I spawned Indie cities, conquered them, and immediately built boats to get the seafood. I will have to try this all again though...

 

[civ_king]

Yes, but Scandinavian colonies didn't have historical significance at the scale of this mod.

Makes sense.


To what end? Buddhism in Afghanistan was on the decline after the Arab conquest.


Can someone confirm? For me everything works.


I think you misunderstood. The original city states that Tenochtitlan was fighting or forming the Triple Alliance with were all situated at Lake Texcoco, i.e. on the same tile in the game map. The map doesn't allow for historical Aztec enemies to fight, and I won't invent some. You still can settle your cities close and use City States of course ...

I don't mean conquerors, I mean to the corporation, it's unlikely the AI will get it, but I have seen Scandinavia conquer a city or two in India on occasion and also for the player if they want to chase it.

Cool

A central Asian wonder would pretty it up.

I checked with both maps and then redownloaded the current SVN

 

[Leoreth]

I spawned Indie cities, conquered them, and immediately built boats to get the seafood. I will have to try this all again though...

Oh, I thought you were talking about the unchanged map there.

I don't mean conquerors, I mean to the corporation, it's unlikely the AI will get it, but I have seen Scandinavia conquer a city or two in India on occasion and also for the player if they want to chase it.

Oh, I guess that makes sense then.

 

[Mr_Hobo]

Yeah, city-states can grow Tenochtitlan to 17, but not more than that within the time limit. The unhealthiness slows it too much. It is probably doable if the city started at size 4. What if the goal was "Grow Tenochtitlan to size 17 and have more than 50 total population points by 1500"?

 

[iOnlySignIn]

The goal can be changed to "largest city outside of East Asia" which is historically more realistic.

East Asia is already defined as the UHV area of Japan.

But of course, if AI Mongols can actually make a dent in AI China this qualifier won't be necessary.