cz4: RaR ()==[];,;,;,;,;,;> The Hitlist

[Greebley]

Mostly you want to pick a city with good shields.

The reason is that in C3C placement only affects other cities in terms of distance corruption. Distance corruption is not that big compared to the rank corruption - I would say 5% at most - reducing down to 2-3 % if you can get supreme court and you build courthouses.

Its other effect though is to reduce corruption in the city it is built by a large amount. In fact with two corruption reducing buildings, you will have no corruption, IIRC.

We have the good shield producing city on the west of our islands near the mountains. I would put it there. The fact that it is close to the other one won't matter much.

 

[Macdandee]

Greebley,

I have always thought that the effect of distance was greater.

Just to see what the effect would be, I abandoned Hauri (our present FP) and compared the usable shields/wasted shields of the surrounding towns.

before abandoning vs after

Paracas 35/7 vs 24/13
Supe 17/6 vs 13/8
Tihuanaco 26/3 vs 21/6
Cajamarquilla 26/2 vs 21/5

I know that other things have changed besides simply losing the FP, but that still points to a big change due to the distance. I may be overlooking something else though, I know I've already had some misconceptions in my game changed by actually playing in this sg.

Macdandee

 

[LKendter]

edit-got a leader on turn 3...palace to America or army?

Are there any good small-wonders to build? This game has some very expensive small wonders that are awesome such as international port. I am not sure what small wonders are available at this time.

The FP is primarily an OCN increasing tool. This is effectively a courthouse in every city. It has no help at all on rank corruption. It DOES help distance corruption as the distance to palace is counted to the nearest palace.

If we don't have an awesome small wonder, then put the FP in America so that we can speed up getting that island useful. I would then have the FP city build a barracks to start upgraded all the American slaves we have.

 

[JustBen]

All 4 palaces give barracks for free, right?

This is a fun read.

 

[Greebley]

The FP also reduces the rank corruption so just disbanding and comparing doesn't work.

To do it right you want to compare the difference between having a palace on the west coast of our main island vs having a palace on the American continent. It may be higher than 5% (10%?). Call it 5% after you build the courthouse.

I think one thing a courthouse does is reduce the distance corruption by 1/2, and another building would reduce it by 1/2 again.

I would definitely go with an army (missed that question the first time) if you haven't decided yet.

 

[Keiji]

My first thought would be to build the summer palace on the American continent. Unfortunately that continent doesn't seem to have any real high shield producing cities. So the corruption reduction effect in the city itself will not be as effective as it could be.
I wouldn't go for an army either though. I remember reading they can only load 2 units in RaR. Besides, we can already build the training camp from which we can build armies if we want. Come to think of it, perhaps that would be a useful usage of our leader.

 

[Greebley]

Even with 2 units I still think they have value. With twice the HP one can kill of units with much less risk of loss.

Also won't there be the equivalent of the pentagon to get us 3 units or something like that?

The problem with building the training camp and army is usually the large number of shields to build it. We can't really afford them at this time IMO.


On the summer palace, I still think that the high shield town in our SW with very little corruption is worth more than the American continent with slightly reduced corruption. Your choice though.

 

[Macdandee]

Hope everyone had a good holiday, getting this back to me so quickly is a great present!

Preturn- Big changes from last time I saw things. I change a couple of the barracks to shrines on the American isle. Switch Chan Chan to Heroic epic(in 5), I meant to get that started on my last turn.

Musings- It looks as if we may want to change governments after our GA, I'm assuming we will go for Constitutional Monarchy? It is one of the first techs we can get in the next age, so we should steer that way. I was looking at the happiness situation and wondering how best to control our war weariness. I thought of more garrison troops, but that wouldnt do us any good with constitutional monarchy.

IBT- Souix & Tibet building JS Bach's, Siamese building Magellan's, finish Copernicus, Tibet building Gutenberg's

Turn 1 (1060ad)- Pachacamac courthouse-shrine, Ancon port-major port. Upgraded one gally to galleon, but at 150g a pop I'll hold off on more for now. Same with labourers, we have a lot of workers and not all that much work for them.

IBT- Two american horse archers attacked Miami but died to the elite Inti warrior.

Turn 2 (1070ad)- Quito colonist-toll house, Supe cavalier-arquebusier, Cajamarquilla cannon-shrine, Cahauchi eagle knight-toll house, Tihuanaco granery-toll house.
Contact the Ottomans - their tech is pathetic, but they have two luxuries we need WM+dyes+tobacco for siege warfare+usery+chivalry. Still can't lower lux.
Siam and Polynesia are both up jurisprudence and leadership, but we have nothing to trade presently.

IBT- Humanism comes in, start on Free Artistry. Looked at trading it, but the computer is asking more for leadership, and with the twister I think Id have to go jurisprudence first. Don't know that I'd get both with the low cash reserves we have. The only one that has techs we want that would take our luxuries are the Souix, that won't work. I'll hope that I get free artistry to use to swing a better trade before they get humanism.

Turn 3 (1080ad)- Cupisnique town clock-bazaar (forgot that toll houses don't boost entertainment, will change the other toll houses being built to bazaars), Huari Cuirassier-bazaar, Ancon major port-granery.
Whooot--first elephant attacking Chicago gets a leader! I am going see if I can get it over to our main island to build the international port--or military acadamy if we get leadership. Capture Chicago (start shrine). Upgrade an Inti in Chicago to an arquebusier.

IBT- horse archer attacks, and dies leaving me a slave. Siam building Bach's.

Turn 4 (1090ad)- Machu Pichu granery-bazaar, Gutenberg's in Paracas-bazaar, Pachacamac shrine-granary, Cajamarquilla shrine-cannon.
Capture Houston (gaining two more slaves), set up to finish Seattle next turn. Still no decent trade ops.

IBT- Polynesians-Magellan's

Turn 5 (1100ad)- Cuzco town clock-Sistine Chapel(doesn't go obsolete, seems we will need the happiness), Chan Chan heroic epic-town clock, Pucara windmill-town clock, Ancon granery-cannon.
Seattle falls, with another slave. Americans are down to one city on the next island.

IBT- Arabs settle a city on the isle to our east.

Turn 6 (1110ad)- Cupisnique bazaar-temple, Huari bazaar-guild hall.
Build Cerro Sechin on our new island-courthouse. Meet the Romans - trade tm for wm+15, they are behind on tech. Meet the Germans, they are even worse.

IBT- Finish Free Artistry and look at trades. Humanism+elephants+wm+10g to Polynesia for naval cannon+jurisprudence. Cotton+elephants+humanism for leadership+227g with Siam. Both Siam and Polynesia are up flintlock, but I'll wait to see if we can swing a twofer. Shipbuilding is next on tech.

Turn 7 (1120ad)- Quito colonist-windmill, Paracas bazaar-granary, Pachacamac granary-international port (due next turn with the leader), Paramonga summer palace (nice increase in prod)-windmill, Supe arquebusier-granary, Arequipa forge-port, Tihuanaco bazaar-temple.
Income is starting to come up a little bit.

IBT- Siam is building Encyclopedie

Turn 8 (1130ad)- Cupisnique temple-windmill, Pachacamac international port-windmill, Caja.. cannon-town clock, Cahauchi bazaar-granary.
Trade jurisprudence+wool to Tibet for newtonian synthesis+95g+tm, boats loading up to head to the last american hold out.

IBT- Siam is building the Encyclopedie, again

Turn 9 (1140ad)- Chan Chan town clock- library, Paracas granary- library, Miami forge- windmill, Ancon cannon- library, Ocucaje port- major port.
Music theory+printing press to Greece for gems+1=wm, cotton+silks to tibet for coffee+24g. Troops land next to Buffalo.

IBT- Souix & Polynesians building the Encyclopedie

Turn 10 (1150ad)- Paramonga windmill- library, Supe granery- privateer, Tihuanaco temple- library.
Capture Buffalo, the American menace is over! Go to declare on the Souix--but find the Ottomans on the top of my diplomacy list! Arrrg, I renewed 2 luxury trades with them. It is them to us, so our rep should be clean. I apologize for not checking, thought for some reason it was the Souix who were next on the list. I will leave it up to the next person to declare, just in case.

Post turn - I went with Greebley's wise advise, it certainly turned Paramonga into a powerhouse. It also allowed the building of the international port, so we will have another great city out of the deal. I regret my choice for the IP location now, I probably should have gone for the capital. I changed most of the builds in ex-america to courthouses, shrines are not needed there yet. War weariness never got too bad, and our infrastructure is looking up. I have a couple of american workers waiting to board ship in Chicago, think they can still be sacrificed to get 20 culture in ex american towns-send at least one over to Buffalo. I've been holding off on most upgrades, did a couple galleons and a great galleas.

Have fun Keiji, it's really getting interesting (though slow)

1150ad Save

 

[LKendter]

I took a look at the game and notice the new small island has SALTPETER. I would cash rush a colonist in Chicago and claim that resource. That island also has iron, so we really want to push a strong military presence on it.

 

[Greebley]

Using the leader on the Int Port was a good use for it. I think we do want an army victory, but that can wait. The capitol or the city with the summer palace would have been better as you state, though Pachacamac does benefit from a lot of coastal tiles. We can compensate for this by building every possible science and gold building in Pachacamac:

Pachacamac should never build units if there are science or commercial buildings left. It has high gold and we should use it. Other cities can build units,

I would switch Supe to a corvette or a sloop-o-war rather than a privateer. Privateers are targetted by everybody. Since we are always at war, I would rather use the boat in the war rather than picking off random boats of other civs.

I think we will want a decent size fleet in this game. I see us doing a lot of sailing.

Keiji is up. Remember to declare war with the Ottomans

 

[Keiji]

Ok, I got it, I'll see if I can gather a decent force for an invasion of the ottoman empire.

Edit:
Well I have been reviewing all the cities, but with all the possible builds, I'm at a bit of a loss what to build where. Courthouses on the American continent are pretty obvious, so is the building only scientific and tax improvements in Pachacamac. I'm pretty unsure about the rest though, perhaps you guys have a good idea about where we should be heading with our builds?

 

[Macdandee]

LKendter - I believe that we have a colonist already built on the starting island but with a galleon not too far away. There is also a galleon available in Buffalo to move more units there quickly. I had shifted a few units back to the main island preparatory to getting a Souix invasion force together, some of them should probably be shifted back to the ex american island as it is closest to the Ottoman's main isle.

Greebley - I chose Pachacamac primarily for its large number of ocean tiles, and turned down Paramonga since it had just a few. I didn't even consider that the capital worked just a few ocean tiles less than Pachacamac with no corruption untill it was a done deal. I agree that the privateer is probably not the way to go, think that was more a frustration build due to the large number of folks "exploring" our coastline. They are mostly ancient units and picking them off near friendly harbors just gives my violent side something to do while building up for the next invasion I also agree on the naval build up, we presently have only 3 warships with one more being built. Two of those are galleas's that can be upgraded to frigates soon, but we will want more for interdiction and bombarding.

I have a few thoughts on builds. I think we should beef up garrisons at least on the northern shore of the main island and in the western island. Presently we have towns with mostly just one obsolete defender and almost nothing for reactionary forces to take out invaders. As far as buildings, RaR gets me in trouble, I always seem to fucus on infrastructure and it is almost impossible to get all of the buildings I want in all of the towns I want them in. Most cities on the main island are pretty well set up for production improvements, fair for commerce, so so on happiness, and poor on science. The last hasn't seemed to be a high priority, we have been getting techs every 4 or 5 turns self researched and are keeping up with the computer pretty nicely, but we could probably do with at least libraries in all of our home island cities. We might want to switch the capital to Encyclopedie, that would allow us to go lower on science builds and allow us to build up our cash reserves. Still think Sistines would be a good investment for the future though.

Macdandee

 

[Greebley]

I think Pachamac wasn't a bad choice on further thought. We will want shield squares for our capitol, which means less water squares. Pachamac may be a better choice for the near future at least (capitol wins when it can grow past size 12 or gets enough buildings) as we can work more sea.

 

[Keiji]

I always seem to focus on infrastructure and it is almost impossible to get all of the buildings I want in all of the towns I want them in.

That is exactly my problem. There is just so much infrastructure that you could keep building it, but we have to do something else some time.

Beefing up our defenses seems like a good idea. I'm thinking of doing that and letting the western harbor towns specialize in building a navy for a while. A good navy is definitely going to be necessary as we are forced to declare war on farther away civilizations. I guess I'll use the rest of the towns to build us some ground forces for an invasion and for our reactionary force.

 

[Greebley]

Ya, it is a hard call to make.

I tend to go:
Shield producing buildings.
Some Units.
Science Producing buildings (if we can keep up with the AI (usually)).
Some Units.
Comerce Buildings
More units.

I will only build the clock tower when the number of turns gets low - Same with Guild halls.

I do not build all the science buildings right away. There are 4 that are fairly cheap though. Academy, Library, School of Scribes, and Monastary (needs temple). These will increase a cities Science by 200% and are well worth it in the mid-game.

Ports and Toll houses often come earlier than the above pattern might suggest. Ports allow for Major ports which saves building an Aquaduct. Toll houses are very cheap

Note that I feel in RaR, running 100% science is fairly doable if you have a decent size empire. Trade techs and try to get the AI money works well if you build the above science wonders. It even works in deity if you have a good size empire (better than in the normal game I feel).

 

[Keiji]

Pre-turn:
First thing's first, declare on the Ottomans, we lose 2 luxuries.
Switch some more builds on the American continent to courthouses.
Switch the privateer to a sloop-o-war. Leave the rest of the builds.
I receive flintlock and 285g from polynesia for free artistry.
Hmmm, we could use some more gold, there are plenty of units to
upgrade for us.

IBT
Boat building -> Social Contract
Chan Chan, library -> toll house
Cupisnique, wind mill -> library
Huari, guild hall -> library
Chiripa, wind mill -> port

1160 AD (1)
Upgrade a bunch of galleys to galleons.
Sell ship building to Polynesia for economics and 290g.
Sell ship building to Siam for 655g. (We could use the gold)

IBT
Chan Chan, toll house -> musketman
Pucara, town clock -> toll house
Paracas, library -> toll house
Pachacamac, wind mill -> toll house
Paramonga, library -> shipyard
Ancon, library -> frigate
Cahauchi, granary -> library

1170 AD (2)
Disband some Really obsolete units. To expensive to upgrade them.

IBT
Cupisnique, library -> toll house
Huari, library -> toll house
Pachacamac, toll house -> library
Paramonga, shipyard -> frigate
Cajarmaquilla, town clock -> library
Tihuanaco, library -> toll house
We lose our supply of spices.

1180 AD (3)
Do some more upgrading. Our forces are gathering at pachacamac

IBT
Our golden age ends
Chimbote, wind mill -> forge
Paracas, toll house -> cuirassier
Huari, toll house -> cuirassier

1190 AD (4)
ZZZ

IBT
Chan Chan, musketmen -> musketmen
Pucara, toll house -> musketman
Cupisnique, toll house -> cuirassier
Supe, sloop-o-war -> sloop-o-war
Tihuanaco, toll house -> cuirassier

1200 AD (5)
Get furs and tea for economics from tibet.
Do a bunch more upgrading.

IBT
Social contract -> cavalry tactics
Pachacamac, library -> bazaar
Paramonga, frigate -> frigate
Ocucaje, major port -> forge
Chiripa, port -> toll house
Laurichocha, courthouse -> forge

1210 AD (6)
Get cavalry tactics and 16gpt for Social Contract from Polynesia.

IBT
Macchu Picchu, bazaar -> wind mill
Quito, wind mill -> library
Huari, cuirassier -> cuirassier
Ancon, sloop-o-war -> sloop-o-war
Cajarmaquilla, library -> toll house
Arequipa, port -> library

1220 AD (7)
ZZZ

IBT
Chan Chan, musketman -> musketman
Paracas, Cuirassier -> musketman
Cahauchi, library -> toll house
We lose our supply of saltpeter.

1230 AD (8)
ZZZ

IBT
Ancon, shipyard -> sloop-o-war
Cajarmaquilla, toll house -> barracks

1240 AD (9)
ZZZ

IBT
Sea tactics -> Medicine
Philadelphia, courthouse -> forge
Cupisnique, cuirassier -> cuirassier
Huari, cuirassier -> trebuchet (should be cannon)
Pachacamac, bazaar -> marketplace
Paramonga, frigate -> galleon (should be frigate)
Cajamarquilla, barracks -> trebuchet (should be cannon)
Cahauchi, toll house -> town clock
Tihuanaco, cuirassier -> cuirassier
Chiripa, toll house -> library

1250 AD (10)
A quiet set of turns. We've done a lot of building these past ten turns.
Most cities on our own continent have a library and toll house by now.
Our invasion force is coming along nicely too, it's completely done though

Make sure to buy ourselves a supply of saltpeter again.
I'm not going to do such an extensive report again if that's ok with you guys.

 

[Greebley]

Keiji,
Ya, listing just the important stuff works fine.

Since this hasn't been posted for a while:

Greebley
Macdandee
Keiji
LKendter - Up
Cizzlewalk - On Deck?

Cizzlewalk, you said you would be busy for a while. Can you play after Lee?

 

[LKendter]

Gottttttttt ittttttt (10+ characters)

 

[LKendter]

1250 AD
Why are we clearing a forest in range of no cities? I also spot irrigating outside of any city's range.

The below was posted at 1150 AD.

I took a look at the game and notice the new small island has SALTPETER. I would cash rush a colonist in Chicago and claim that resource. That island also has iron, so we really want to push a strong military presence on it.

Make sure to buy ourselves a supply of saltpeter again.

Huh? Claiming that SALTPETER city would have made much more sense.

I am very disappointed to find the saltpeter site unclaimed. I had talked about this when we had a galley in range.


I switch Sistine to Smith's. IMO Smith's is a better wonder. There are quite a few free building from that in RaR.

I give Siam Wool, Silks and Naval Tactics for Constitutionalism and $450.
I give Polynesia Naval Tactics for an updated wm, $85 and $3/turn.

I order a revolt and get stuck with 6 turns of anarchy.

Laborers have speed 2. I plan to upgrade as many of our older workers units as possible to them.


1265 AD
(IT) Siam completes Bach.


1275 AD
(IT) I don't lack that fact that Siam moved a unit inside our borders on the iron island.


1280 AD
I think Siam is about to "sneak" attack. I buy Grand Strategy for $74/turn for insurance. If nothing else, it opens up another option tech. Federalism was outside our price range.
(IT) Siam does declare war. Thanks for the free tech.


1285 AD
Chanchan is formed to claim the Saltpeter.
(IT) The Sioux and Siam ally against us.


1295 AD
(IT) The war cascade continues and Siam and the Arabs ally vs. us.

==========================

Summary:
With the variant nature make sure to build war monuments to get the war weariness reduction. We really want to build the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, as that is equivalent to universal suffrage in helping with war weariness.

Paracas is killer city. I would go with Guild Hall, Town Clock, and the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. We want the ww reduction.

Smith's is due shortly, and I hope our economy gets that nice boast.

We want the Manga Carter wonder badly for the free courthouse effect.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/CZ4-1300AD.zip

 

[Macdandee]

LKendter - I at least hadn't done the worker upgrades because there really wasn't much for them to do until rails.

Tough luck on the anarchy. What government are we in/heading for? I have not done a whole lot with the "middle" governments in RaR, tend to use republic or democracy till later in the game.

You out there Cizzlewalk?