Darius is underdog?

[alpaca]

You don't really want happiness golden ages, except maybe the first. The happiness you don't use for growing has a huge opportunity cost attached and the GA isn't horribly cost-efficient after the first.

When I play Persia my games tend to go like this: I go for IW, bumrush the nearest one or two civs, then beeline towards Rifling (of course getting Writing, Construction, and whichever happiness techs you need). Meanwhile I build Immortals when I have some production to spare. When I have Rifling I switch to a Taj beeline after researching Civil Service and upgrading my Immortals to Riflemen.

Now you have awesome beatstick Rifles that kill anything they see and heal twice as fast, and since the AI doesn't prioritize Taj much so you can usually get it even on Immortal (and I guess on Deity but I can't guarantee because I never tried). When I am there, I pour a GS into a golden age to build Taj faster.

Only then do I pick up Banking. While Chichen Itza is nice to have, it's not necessary if you play Persia. Going there will hurt you more than do you good. Once you have Taj, you will enter a kind of perpetual golden age where you produce a Great Person every few turns, putting your counter up, and build Brandenburg Gate and The Louvre to have some more fuel for your GA. Run Freedom and Civil Society to get lots of specialist points, scientists are easiest to get but building some Satrapses and getting Merchants isn't bad, either.

 

[Martin Alvito]

You don't really want happiness golden ages, except maybe the first. The happiness you don't use for growing has a huge opportunity cost attached and the GA isn't horribly cost-efficient after the first.

Disagree for most civs; the second Happiness GA is a great way to get Apollo up. For Persia, I agree that Happiness-based GAs are more or less unnecessary because of the monster GAs from Taj and early Great People. If you are aggressive enough in pushing Printing Press, you should get Taj even on Deity.

 

[bobshiznit]

I just finished the Taj in my game and got like 50 GA turns for some reason.
The base for Taj is 15 turns.
+50% for Persia
+50% for Chichen

I don't know what the deal is. What are the other bonuses I could have that would have added turns to the golden age?

 

[bobshiznit]

On normal speed

 

[avl8]

Hmm, is it worth going ICS with Darius?

 

[MykC]

I just finished the Taj in my game and got like 50 GA turns for some reason.
The base for Taj is 15 turns.
+50% for Persia
+50% for Chichen

I don't know what the deal is. What are the other bonuses I could have that would have added turns to the golden age?

To be honest, I think thats what I got as well, 49 actually. I thought I just didn't notice a happiness GA go off and then run into the Taj GA, but...now...

 

[bobshiznit]

I looked at my save. In my game I was in a golden age for about 70 turns prior to getting the Taj so I wasn't adding to the happy bucket. I had about 4-5 turns of GA left built the Taj and had 52 turns then. If the happy bucket doesn't fill during a golden age I couldn't have added that. The numbers add up about right for that to have happened though.

 

[Mumin]

The Persians also get particularly good rewards from the Educated Elite SP

 

[avl8]

The Persians also get particularly good rewards from the Educated Elite SP

Yeah, though you gotta invest omg number of polices to have it...

 

[kossmikman]

I've had a ridiculous run of GA with Darius using the theocracy social policy. In fact, I think the piety branch plays really well with Darius' traits.

 

[avl8]

I've had a ridiculous run of GA with Darius using the theocracy social policy. In fact, I think the piety branch plays really well with Darius' traits.

As well as Honor/Warrior code = earliest great man available in the game. Warrior/Immortal rush followed by golden age ... mmm GA early isnt that great oops...
Still underdoggy for me!

 

[Lord Lakely]

Lulz, you got to be joking. Golden Ages are *AMAZING* and well worth it. (especially considering you get TONS of Great People each game) More Cash, more Production, stronger troops, faster units (all of them) and that 50% longer than usual, like a free Chichen Itza? How is that *not* weak.

 

[MykC]

Yeah, if you get chez nd then taj its a49 turn golden age on standard

 

[avl8]

Lulz, you got to be joking. Golden Ages are *AMAZING* and well worth it. (especially considering you get TONS of Great People each game) More Cash, more Production, stronger troops, faster units (all of them) and that 50% longer than usual, like a free Chichen Itza? How is that *not* weak.

TONS of Great People? In my ICS games I tend to have 5-6 GS plus 1-2 GG. Thats maximum 8. In cultural ones I got that same 7-8 plus those from Louvre/Brandenburg and Porcelain.
Earlier, with the help of Educated Elite it was 9-10 but it wont work on emperor and above.

And each time when great person pops I need him to boost science or lead my forces to glory. The only 1 I can burn without mercy is 2nd great general.

Tell me, want you to burn for golden age any great scientist? Even if he boosts your production and commerce? Even for that nifty +10% strength?

 

[HermannLombard]

TONS of Great People? In my ICS games I tend to have 5-6 GS

With the Persians you only get 5 or 6? How fast are you winning? In an ICS game with any civ you can hope for one GS per city within about 225 turns, maybe 15 or so. With Persia you'll get more.

 

[MykC]

Either way, if you wait till you get the Chez built to set off your first happiness GA and use that GA to get close to or near having the Taj built then when you start your 49 turn GA you should be able to finish the game without leaving GA. I mean, you only really need to bubble up to rifles and thats 3-4 GS. Everything else after you can pop.

The first GP you pop is worth 16 turns, so if you pop 4 GPs its 16+ 14 + 12 + 10. 52 more turns. Your GA is going to indirectly boost your reserch by allowing all of your city to produce more hammers and make more moeny which can quick buy buildings and military units. Which in turn either boosts your infrastructure or you ability to take more cities quickly and your troops are already marching at +1 and +10% attack.

All it comes down to is how long the GA is going to be vs what the GP is worth at the time. I mean if I have 50 cities that will each earn an extra 5 hammers and 5 gold each over 10 turns... .welll.... I'll take the 2500 hammers and 2500 gold while letting my army move quickly and stronger.

That was just an example though an it comes down to what the benefits.

I started playing an ICS game after reading this post with Darisu and did extremely well. As soon as my Taj GA started my armies only stopped a handful of time to biuld a happiness buffer. I forget when the TAJ Ga started but on turn 260 I was still in GA.

 

[Slowpoke]

TONS of Great People? In my ICS games I tend to have 5-6 GS plus 1-2 GG. Thats maximum 8. In cultural ones I got that same 7-8 plus those from Louvre/Brandenburg and Porcelain.
Earlier, with the help of Educated Elite it was 9-10 but it wont work on emperor and above.

And each time when great person pops I need him to boost science or lead my forces to glory. The only 1 I can burn without mercy is 2nd great general.

Tell me, want you to burn for golden age any great scientist? Even if he boosts your production and commerce? Even for that nifty +10% strength?

Honestly, as persia, I would burn 1-2 scientists on golden ages. Especially if you get chicen itza, then it's just a no brainer. The only exception is if you're going for space victory, but even then the extreme GAs get universities up quick.

Of course, I don't play persia though

 

[avl8]

With the Persians you only get 5 or 6? How fast are you winning? In an ICS game with any civ you can hope for one GS per city within about 225 turns, maybe 15 or so. With Persia you'll get more.

Last game was 1295 AD diplo victory as Iroqois ICS. Actually havent played after 1718 AD yet.

I think every GS should bulb you something especially untill renassainse era.

And I still think Darius is a weakling compared to other leaders, cause of his UA, his UB and his UU.
Reason is simple. If you get chichen itza and at least 15 cities your position is already very very good. Darius or any other leader your playing - you already did the hardest part and snowball is rolling.

All topdog leaders just get you to this point with much much stronger UA/UB/UU.
Without the need to sacrifice rare and brilliant person of course

Companion cavalry, great warpath, ancient regime, glory of rome etc etc - just the way better than those snuffy immortals and way-too-late-coming-happybanks.

Mb theres "not ICS" strategy that puts Darius on top, the tactic we havent yet found?
The one like alpaca wrote at the bottom of this page? Is it ICS strat btw?

 

[bobshiznit]

I finished a non-ICS emperor continents game as Darius.
You go conquer and puppet. Puppets build gold buildings during mass golden age/ages, this includes your UB that gives +2 Happy so you can go get more puppets. Conquer Chichen Itza, build the Taj, get a 50 turn golden age and clean up the map with rifles. The +movement and combat bonus makes it super easy.

In the game I started in a weak start - rushed the nearest neighbor and stole workers. I built 4 cities early taking Liberty path to Meritocracy. The uu helps minimally here. I went on a horse-knight rush and cleared the continent. Filled in about 4 more cities, a few were coastal cities to be able to buy ships and find the rest of the enemies. I had very long roads between cities, but it didn't matter much because I had too much gold to know what to do with because of the golden ages. Built rifles and calvary and conquered the world. I took rationalism along the way for the golden age, but I don't think I got much further with the SP's.

The unit build buys during the golden age break the game wide open. I had 5-6 frigates bombarding cities with cavs and rifles mopping up. Conquer an empire, snipe a capital, game over turn 203. My tech rate was slightly slower than my normal games, because I was running limited scientists because of all the golden ages.

The Chichen/Taj combo broke the game, I still had 30 or so GA turns left at the end of the game after having a 100 turns before this.

I have a save from turn 196 if anyone is interested.

 

[neilkaz]

To be honest, I think thats what I got as well, 49 actually. I thought I just didn't notice a happiness GA go off and then run into the Taj GA, but...now...

There's a bug here and it makes Darius really nice if you can get Taj. In my just completed Small Pangaea Immortal Standard Speed game, I was beaten to Chichen Itza by an AI civ even though I burned a GP for a GA to help, but managed to get Taj and when I did..WOW a 33 turn GA !!

So lets say that I had Chichen also..1.5 x 33 rounds down to 49 so that explains the 49 turn GA people are getting. It is quite hard to get early wonders on Immortal or Deity unless you rush toward ones that the AI doesn't try to grab, even if you have GA along the way to help.

Clearly a bug as I Darius should get only a 22 turn GA for Taj w/out Chichen.

Oh and the game was a fun win and not difficult and being in GA a lot helped. My Iroquois win was easier, but I also played that game better than this one, as here I missed a few wonders during GA's (tried too much) and pissed away too many units rather than awaiting reinforcements.

.. neilkaz ..