Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
I don't really notice any difference. Whats so inportant about how a unit is made, as long as its made?
Dark Continent Unit Pack
- Thread starter Dom Pedro II
- Start date
Kal-el
Deity
there is a big difference in the proportions of the Michael model and Kinboat's Paperdoll. I can't believe you are serious when you say the only important thing is that the unit be made. I'm not saying these units are bad, or poorly made, only that for consistency I would love to see them made with the Paperdoll.
I am sure you could ask DPII, Kinboat, UtahJazz, or anyone else if there is a difference in their earlier units and those they are making now with the Paperdoll, and they would all say that since using the Paperdoll the appearance of their units is closer to the original Civ3 artwork, and as such fit better with the rest of the units already in the game, and those being made by other artists in the community.
I am sure you could ask DPII, Kinboat, UtahJazz, or anyone else if there is a difference in their earlier units and those they are making now with the Paperdoll, and they would all say that since using the Paperdoll the appearance of their units is closer to the original Civ3 artwork, and as such fit better with the rest of the units already in the game, and those being made by other artists in the community.
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
It's not quite as simple as that, Kal-el. I've tried out the Paperdoll with various M2 and M3 clothing items, and they conform very badly to the Paperdoll
Kal-el
Deity
oh, I'm sure it's not as simple as I'd wish it were, but then again very few things are. 
But, I'm sure you'd agree the Paperdoll is a better base to use than M2 or M3, wouldn't you? And, as such, the more units made with the PD vice M2/3 the better.
But, I'm sure you'd agree the Paperdoll is a better base to use than M2 or M3, wouldn't you? And, as such, the more units made with the PD vice M2/3 the better.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
There are plenty of older units that look fine that don't use the paperdoll model. Utahjazz' Inti Warrior for example. Or Bebro's units. Conformity is always a bad think if it gets in the way of creativity, and DPII has better things to do than redo his old(and excellilent I might add) units, especially when he could be doing other things, like making new units... 
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
Kal-el said:oh, I'm sure it's not as simple as I'd wish it were, but then again very few things are.
Well, what I've done is changed the proportions of Michael 2 so it roughly matches the Paperdoll - that way I can still use Michael's clothes. Incidentally, even clothes specifically designed for the Paperdoll don't conform properly:
Kal-el
Deity
nice job, Zulu.
utahjazz7
Deity
Wow! Kal-el and Zulu9812 having a discussion . . . it feels like old times again! It's definitely good to see some familiar "faces" around these parts.
Yeah, I'd agree with Kal-el on this one, the paperdoll definitely gives a more CivIII-like feel to the units. This feel isn't impossible to recreate with other models, like the Mikes, but it's much easier and more consistently done with Kinboat's paperdoll.
As far as units that aren't made with the paperdoll go, there are some that fit with the original CivIII units, and there are some that don't. There's more than the model that goes into that though. Some units are really shiny and look like plastic; I don't like that. Some have animations that differ from the style of the CivIII units. Ultimately everyone has their own standards, but I--and I think Kal-el--tend to be a little more selective in determining which units fit with the CivIII originals.
@Zulu, this might help, if you didn't try it already. With Kinboat's conforming figures for the paperdoll, you need to open the joint editor and hit the "zero figure" button. Also, you'll need to reset the conforming figure's hip's x-, y-, and z-transitions to 0, 0, and 0. Once that's done, I've never had a problem with them. Actually, I've recently made a conforming figure myself for which I've had to do the same thing. Dunno why.
Yeah, I'd agree with Kal-el on this one, the paperdoll definitely gives a more CivIII-like feel to the units. This feel isn't impossible to recreate with other models, like the Mikes, but it's much easier and more consistently done with Kinboat's paperdoll.
As far as units that aren't made with the paperdoll go, there are some that fit with the original CivIII units, and there are some that don't. There's more than the model that goes into that though. Some units are really shiny and look like plastic; I don't like that. Some have animations that differ from the style of the CivIII units. Ultimately everyone has their own standards, but I--and I think Kal-el--tend to be a little more selective in determining which units fit with the CivIII originals.
@Zulu, this might help, if you didn't try it already. With Kinboat's conforming figures for the paperdoll, you need to open the joint editor and hit the "zero figure" button. Also, you'll need to reset the conforming figure's hip's x-, y-, and z-transitions to 0, 0, and 0. Once that's done, I've never had a problem with them. Actually, I've recently made a conforming figure myself for which I've had to do the same thing. Dunno why.
utahjazz7
Deity
Kal-el said:
Huh? I'll take a complement when I can get one, but what was this for?
edit: situation under control
Takeno
Kris Kringle
zulu9812 said:
I don't mean to be smart or anything like that, but if what's in the video you have is Kinboat's Aiel download conformed to his paperdoll, you don't need to. His Aiel comes complete with the human inserted, ready to animate. Of course, I'm probably wrong and it's nothing like that and I am just making a fool of myself
. If that is the case, please forgive me 
.
Kal-el
Deity
erm, that was of course meant to read, "nice job, Zulu." 
but nice job, Utah. Just for being you!
but nice job, Utah. Just for being you!
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
Takeno said:I don't mean to be smart or anything like that, but if what's in the video you have is Kinboat's Aiel download conformed to his paperdoll, you don't need to. His Aiel comes complete with the human inserted, ready to animate. Of course, I'm probably wrong and it's nothing like that and I am just making a fool of myself
No, you're correct - I just picked that because it was first on the list. But take a look at this pic.
Besides, it doesn't really matter. My main point was that it's a pain in the ass to get Michael 2 or 3 clothing to fit the Paperdoll:
Some things work better than others though. For some reason, flexible type clothing (like cloth) works really badly, whilst more rigid items (like armour) work better:
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
What I was really trying to say is that I think the African Units are perfect. DPII has done alot of great work, and he took alot of time with these. He has alot on his plate already, don't want to put old things back on it..
And using the Paperdoll model doesn't guarantee a unit will look good...look at some of Civarmy's units, not all of them look great in game, alot of them do, but not all, and all his later units use the Paper Doll..
And using the Paperdoll model doesn't guarantee a unit will look good...look at some of Civarmy's units, not all of them look great in game, alot of them do, but not all, and all his later units use the Paper Doll..
Kal-el
Deity
but I can almost certainly guarantee that any unit DPII makes with the Paperdoll will look even better than his already excellent work done using Michael. The difference between the two mentioned artists is experience with the medium.
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
btw, continuing with the viability of the Paperdoll, and going for a total threadjack, I made this pic up as a british spearman using the Paperdoll model, the paperdoll serf clothes and some michael props. It works okay, although there are still conforming issues with the paperdoll clothing (even after trying utah's tip - notably on the forearms and chest). Also, the paperdoll doesn't take ready poses designed for other characters terribly well, but that's not too important, as I've always taken them as nothing more than a starting off point. Anyway, take a look:
Kal-el
Deity
hard to tell due to image quality, nut the shield looks nice. 
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
it's a jpg set at 100 quality (i.e. max), so it must be down to the render settings - I can never seem to get that bit right
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
Zulu,
I've come up with pokethrough issues before with other projects, and found the best way to deal with them is to hide the body part that's being covered up (so that even if it does poke through for some reason in the animation, it still won't show because it's invisible). If I hadn't learned that nifty trick, I might as well have forgot trying half of the Poser projects that I have in the "ready to animate" stage.
As a matter of fact, with the Shinra SOLDIER, the only parts of David (base P-5 male) that are actually flagged as visible are the arms
I've come up with pokethrough issues before with other projects, and found the best way to deal with them is to hide the body part that's being covered up (so that even if it does poke through for some reason in the animation, it still won't show because it's invisible). If I hadn't learned that nifty trick, I might as well have forgot trying half of the Poser projects that I have in the "ready to animate" stage.
As a matter of fact, with the Shinra SOLDIER, the only parts of David (base P-5 male) that are actually flagged as visible are the arms
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
Unfortunately, with the Paperdoll, if I set his chest to invisible I also lose the neck - which isn't covered by clothing and thus he looks like the invisible man! Also, setting his forearms to invisible means losing the wrists, etc.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
So your taking up unit animation Zulu? Good for you... 
It will be interesting seeing what the King of "Wrong Forum" can pull out of his hat..lol
DPII can tell us to stop threadjacking when he gets back...for now..the thread is ours...
It will be interesting seeing what the King of "Wrong Forum" can pull out of his hat..lolDPII can tell us to stop threadjacking when he gets back...for now..the thread is ours...
