zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
For comparison, this is something that I'd made earlier with michael 2 set to roughly paperdoll proportions:
Dark Continent Unit Pack
- Thread starter Dom Pedro II
- Start date
Well, that one looks absolutely fine to me, and beautifully animated to boot. Personally I really can't tell the difference between paperdoll units and other ones. As long as they're roughly the right size and shape and are nicely animated that's the main thing, and I certainly think the African units that this thread is ostensibly about are absolutely fine. Since when did all human beings have identical proportions anyway?
Now, the important issue - what's zulu9812 going to be making, and will he take requests...?
Now, the important issue - what's zulu9812 going to be making, and will he take requests...?
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
To be honest, I'm having a lot of trouble with getting it into civ3 format. The poser bit is relatively easy, as I've been using it for the last 4 years. It's the damn pallettes that come afterwards that I can't get my head around.
Kal-el
Deity
that looks very nice, zulu.
@Plotonius, the biggest difference is in the size of the extremeties, i.e. hands, feet and head. The original Civ3 units have overly large craniums, large hands and big feet, and you know what they say about guys with big feet, don't you?
They have to buy big shoes.
@Plotonius, the biggest difference is in the size of the extremeties, i.e. hands, feet and head. The original Civ3 units have overly large craniums, large hands and big feet, and you know what they say about guys with big feet, don't you?
They have to buy big shoes.
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
Personally, I agree with Plotinus; they look great and the animation is excellent! With the size of units used in Civ, most of those proportional things aren't really noticeable. Of course, I'm used to those Games Workshop guys with weapons the size of trees. I think most of us want various units bad enough that we won't argue about what size....er, um...shoes, yeah, that's it...that he's wearing 
Bungus
Archont of Cootertown
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 1,165
That's a terrific animation, Zulu (perhaps as an AttackA. He put a little too much mustard on that swing to be an attack he does more than once). Very fluid. I agree on the bigger hands and feet issue. And larger weapons(thicker) are good too.
My 3 cents on the paper doll vs not-the-paper-doll: I don't think the paperdoll should be the end all unit model. Yeah, its a good base because of its conformity, but having every unit look like the same generic dude gets repetitive, and personaly, I think the paper dolls a little too short and stocky. He looks alot like the warrior model, but firaxis's units all differ in size and figure (warrior being squat and wide, swordsman tall, etc).
Anyway, its up to the unit maker to decide, and they work pretty cheap, so I'm not going to fire them just they don't want to deal with the troubles of fiddling with clipping issues.
My 3 cents on the paper doll vs not-the-paper-doll: I don't think the paperdoll should be the end all unit model. Yeah, its a good base because of its conformity, but having every unit look like the same generic dude gets repetitive, and personaly, I think the paper dolls a little too short and stocky. He looks alot like the warrior model, but firaxis's units all differ in size and figure (warrior being squat and wide, swordsman tall, etc).
Anyway, its up to the unit maker to decide, and they work pretty cheap, so I'm not going to fire them just they don't want to deal with the troubles of fiddling with clipping issues.
Kal-el
Deity
I'm definitely not suggesting that every unit have the exact same body type. In fact I would prefer if some units were thinner, fatter, shorter, etc. But the main point here, is that the Michael based units have wee little heads, hands and feet at the civ scale, whereas those made with the paperdoll as a base conform more closely to the original units. And I for one am in favor of all the art assets in a game being as consistent as possible. I find when a unit does not fit in with the rest of the units it is very disjointing and tends to break the mood.
Kinboat
Conan the Librarian
I never meant my figure to be the 'standard' I started out just trying to get as close as I could (in some of those shots Zulu9812 it looks like you are using one of my older figures which don't quite have the same bone structure and form as my newer version... That might be some of the problems with conforming some things). Also the issue with michael clothes not fitting my figure... I never meant this to be a replacement to that figure in any way... and I can only make clothes so fast 
I realize the conforming issue is annoying (it's bothering me too) and I can see many things I would change now if I had the time... Maybe I should attach a use at your own risk label.
That is a wonderful animation by the way. Very good timing and motion. If palette work is the only thing keeping you from making units have you seen Stephs latest program? I'm not sure if it's available yet but it looks to be a wonderfully helpful tool.
PS... I do have a Fat man model that I'm trying to use for that Samoan Clubman of Kal-els... If I ever finish that and post the model there would be an option for more diversity... Although then again he would have almost no clothing figures.
I realize the conforming issue is annoying (it's bothering me too) and I can see many things I would change now if I had the time... Maybe I should attach a use at your own risk label.That is a wonderful animation by the way. Very good timing and motion. If palette work is the only thing keeping you from making units have you seen Stephs latest program? I'm not sure if it's available yet but it looks to be a wonderfully helpful tool.
PS... I do have a Fat man model that I'm trying to use for that Samoan Clubman of Kal-els... If I ever finish that and post the model there would be an option for more diversity... Although then again he would have almost no clothing figures.
Bungus
Archont of Cootertown
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 1,165
Yeah, I agree Kal. There are dozens of otherwise nice units that I don't use because of size/civ scale/proportion issues. I'm not critizising anyone's work (you can hardly say somebod's a crappy unit maker because their character doesn't wear a size 24 shoe). That said, if a unit maker feels that using the doll would reduce a size or clipping problem they couldn't or don't have the time/inclination to solve, definately use it (I do wish the paper doll was a little taller, though. Especialy when most other homebrewed units are often a tad large; it just seems a happier medium between these and firaxis's. But I suppose overall size has to do with how zoomed in the renders are)
EDIT: Didn't see you had posted, kinboat. Guess I should have refreshed my browser window.
PS. pallete editing sucks..
EDIT: Didn't see you had posted, kinboat. Guess I should have refreshed my browser window.
PS. pallete editing sucks..
Kal-el
Deity
I am looking forward to the Big Kahuna making an appearance on the Civ scene.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
I'm more interested in that Swordsman of yours Kal-El..in fact, I once(over the summer actually) wanted it so badly, I tried using Poser One to make it(don't laugh)...
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
Kinboat said:
No, that's definitely the most recent paperdoll model posted in your thread
Kinboat said:
I took a look in the Utilities forum and I didn't see anything from Steph relating to pallettes - I guess it's not released yet.
Incidentally (and this is aimed mainly at Kal-el), I really don't think that only paperdoll figures are appropriate for Civ3. The following pic was made using Daz's David figure, which is actually built off a female mesh. I think it looks pretty good as a civ figure.
Kal-el
Deity
I agree, that the Paperdoll is not the only appropriate figure, but unless alterations are made to the basic Poser models, they won't "conform" to the original artwork as well as those based on the Paperdoll. And as has been said, some of those figures made with the Paperdoll don't look as good as those made without it.
utahjazz7
Deity
Paperdoll today, paperdoll tomorrow, paperdoll forever!
Like Kal-el said, the DAZ and stock poser figures need their proportions altered . . . severely. Has anyone else noticed disappering wrists and ankles? I remember fooling around with negative tapering percentages for the forearms and shins. Then the hands had to be bumped up to like 125%. The shoulders and forearms had to have their y- and z-scales bumped up. Then, what do you do with the fingers? I wasn't about the alter 30 finger segments. Anyway, the paperdoll, while maybe not totally perfect, eliminates so many problems that more realistic figures have. That's makes unit creation potentially that much faster. And, because the paperdoll has a simpliefied bone structure, I can now create my own conforming clothing. Plus, it looks cool.
I still like some of my older units made with the Poser4 male . . . with all the alterations, but I prefer the paperdoll units.
Like Kal-el said, the DAZ and stock poser figures need their proportions altered . . . severely. Has anyone else noticed disappering wrists and ankles?
I remember fooling around with negative tapering percentages for the forearms and shins. Then the hands had to be bumped up to like 125%. The shoulders and forearms had to have their y- and z-scales bumped up. Then, what do you do with the fingers? I wasn't about the alter 30 finger segments. Anyway, the paperdoll, while maybe not totally perfect, eliminates so many problems that more realistic figures have. That's makes unit creation potentially that much faster. And, because the paperdoll has a simpliefied bone structure, I can now create my own conforming clothing. Plus, it looks cool.I still like some of my older units made with the Poser4 male . . . with all the alterations, but I prefer the paperdoll units.
Zulu, those units are looking awesome -- specially the British spearman and the dude with the wicked sword slash animation. I do hope the pallette issues get sorted out so you can completely Civify those units someday!
