Darkelf Design

[Ploeperpengel]

thats not what i meant! there will only be civ specific heroes, no religious heroes at all! because any religious hero only makes sense for 1 civilisation and that means it will only BE a civ specific hero not religious.

Actually this might change a bit for chaos. But regardless there won't ever be a hero buildable to all. There will allways be limits based on civilization(be it a single or group of civs).

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

can you elaborate on that ploep? i feel a bit of light ought to be shed on this. i know what i want, but what you plan to do is completely different to that.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

can you elaborate on that ploep? i feel a bit of light ought to be shed on this. i know what i want, but what you plan to do is completely different to that.

No I won't at this time. Doesn't matter to the kinstrife

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

well actually it DOES matter to kinstrife because were having heroes in there. i dont like being kept in the dark on what your planning on doing.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

I think he was alluding to that Chaos IS a religion and as such can have 4 different types of hero... and maybe also these could become available to any civ tainted by Chaos.
maybe...

 

[rocklikeafool]

That would be nice.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I already talked bout this in the WH Minimod thread. But I thought I'd copy and paste this in this thread, since it deals completely with the DEs. Below tells wat I edited (in Naggaroth, obviously) on Solowen's map, which is included in P_L's minimod, and the reasons why I edited it.

Near Naggarond, I added copper into the fat cross. I changed the mountains to hills or plains, so there are no mountains in the fat cross of Naggarond. This allows more growth, but won’t allow you to get a population of over 15. (You can try but good luck!) I guesstimate that most players will have Naggarond with a population of 12 or 13 on average.

Around Hag Craef, I changed the tundra hills and tundra to regular plains or grasslands. I also added a cow to increase growth. This should make the land more desirable to the AI.

With Grond, I changed the tundra to plains or grasslands and the two tundra hills that Ghrond itself sits on to plains hills. I left the ice plains to keep the growth to a reasonable level. (Again, increasing growth but not by too much.)

Where Har Ganeth sits, I added two hills directly above the city. I also changed the tundra plains to grasslands or regular plains. However, I left a strip of tundra one to two tiles wide on the left side. On the right side, I left all the tundra that is two tiles away from the citysite.

With the land around Karond Kar, I changed the tundra hills to hills plains and grasslands. I also added one grasslands tile to the little isle where the city sits, directly southwest of the city itself.

I changed absolutely nothing about the citysite of Clar Karond, with the exception of changing one of the marble resources to gems. Of note, I added a standing stones on scorched earth base tile to show where the Vauls Anvil near Naggaroth sits. It is located directly south of Clar Karond, on the upper side of the River that runes East to West at the top of the Doom Glades.

I also added a spot for Arnheim, as well, which is, as ya know, the only DE city with any farmlands to speak of. It is located to the Southeast of Clar Karond, on the lower left side of the river that goes North to South in the Black Forest. (Ya know, the river that is at the beginning of the arm that covers the South side of the Sea of Malice and the South Side of the Sea of Chill.) The resources near it are some pipeweed. There are also some plains next to river tiles, which will allow you to place watermills for hammers.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Here's an idea that I really think should be implemented for the DEs soon. Masada came up with originally, but I like it a lot. Note that I've posted it in a few other threads as well.

Spoiler :

We create a new "Primeval forest" or some such which cannot be settled on and not cut down... and may only have roads built on it and lumber mills put on it. We can couple this with a "*insert evil sounding word* forest which is impassable to all but scout units cannot have roads built on it and has a few barb spawning huts in them...i can see these situated around the ridge of scorched earth hills (which could be shuffled inland abit) so that Dark Elves can only build roads around the coast and a little way into the forests... note some of the forests will actually be kept as normal forests so they can still chop... these will be the ones close to cities and the coast

I'm willin to work on these two types of forests if someone can tell me where to go for reference on how to do them and provided Ploe wants them in the mod.

 

[deadliver]

Are you planning on having generic heroes or Leader heroes? Gonna have Malekith/Morathi rolling around? Have the civ lose a trait if they die yo!

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i would love to have leader heroes! but some other heros make better sense for other civs. i dont see finubar running around smacking heads in, id reather have techlis or something. but malekith and morathi id definately like.

 

[rocklikeafool]

If ya go the non-leader hero route, the DE (since this is the DE thread) could have Beastmaster Vauroth or Beastlord Rakarth for their recon-type hero, the Blackguard captain (whose I have no idea of), the head Witch Elf (who isn't Morathi and whose name I also forgot), and DE assassin-type hero.
Somethin similar would apply to all civs. 3 or 4 heroes based off of their UUs.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Beastmaster Vauroth

ive never heard of him. i dont think he features in the DE army books.

id rather stick to 2 heroes max per civ, and use the most powerful/influential first. so that means for DE id say Mortahi and Malekith, possibly Rakarth... dunno.

 

[rocklikeafool]

ive never heard of him. i dont think he features in the DE army books.

Vauroth is on this site, http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Beastmaster_Vauroth. He isn't the best example to be used, but it's jus a example of a 'special character' from WH online. And I figure that people like that are potentially useful as heroes. Anyway, nough bout him.

id rather stick to 2 heroes max per civ, and use the most powerful/influential first. so that means for DE id say Mortahi and Malekith, possibly Rakarth... dunno.

Does everyone agree with that? In other words, wat was ultimately decided by all the modders and, most importantly, Ploe? Cuz on one of the threads there were like 3 or 4 heroes, minimum of 2, for each civ. (The DE havin 2 specifically and maybe a few more, but I don't remember those others specifically. [Look at my title unner my name; you'll see why.])

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

well im pretty sure ploep dosnt want heroes comming out of our ears, 2 / civ i personally feel is a balanced number (as is shown in FfH)

another possibility is to have a leader specific hero and then a civ specific hero. so DE would have morathi and Rakarth (or whatever) if they chose Malekith as their leader, and then they would have Malekith and Rakarth as their heroes if they chose morathi as their leader.

similarly, WE wold get Orion as a hero if the leader is Ariel, as well as a civ specific one (Durthu maybe?) and then if Orion is the leader then Ariel is the hero. get my drift? this way there are more hero combinations, but still only a few in each game.

 

[frenzyslave]

Cool. Nifty idea. Makes replay very interesting.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I wanna make a case for 3 per civ. It gives more to work with for the player.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

similarly, WE wold get Orion as a hero if the leader is Ariel, as well as a civ specific one (Durthu maybe?) and then if Orion is the leader then Ariel is the hero. get my drift? this way there are more hero combinations, but still only a few in each game.

wanna make a case for 3 per civ. It gives more to work with for the player.

well as you can see there, id like 3 heroes as well, but only one of two ca nbe used in any one game depending on what leader you pic.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, airight. I guess, man.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

here is a tentative outline of Darkelven unit stats that has been in the team forum for a while. please be aware that the actual strength stats are VERY likely to be different, as ploep will determin those accoding to the system we already have implemented. the main purpose for this data table is to show you promotions and UU effects for the Darkelves

Creative criticism welcome:

All Units Free Promotions:	Druchii (+1 first strike, +1 Movement), Hate Asur (+15% vs Asur, ignores first strikes from Asur)

New Promotion effects:		Druchii:		+1 first strike, +1 Movement)
				Hate Asur: 		+15% vs Asur, ignores first strikes from Asur 
				Subject to Frenzy: 	randomly adds the 'Frenzied' promotion 
				Frenzied:		adds the blitz effect, +20% attack and -20% defence. has a 75% chance of wearing off each turn. the unit is forced to attack any enemy unit near by.
				Ambush:			The unit may cast a new spell called 'stage ambush' 
				Scaly Skin:		+15% Defence
				Stupididty:		Randomly adds the 'Stupid' Promotion. removed after first combat.
				Stupid: 		unit cannot attack.
				Fear:			effect changed to make enemies attacking the unit have a % chance to get -20% strength
				Terror:			Acts as fear does now
				Immune to Psychology:	ignores the effects of fear, terror, stupidity etc.
				Witch Kings Armour:	+25% defence, +50% magic resistance, ignores first strikes. NOT equipment.
				DESTROYER:		(Equipment) if a spellcaster is killed by the wielding unit, the Destroyer will remove a random spell promotion (Aqshy 1, High 3 etc) from the destroyed caster and grant it (and as well as the appropriate channeling promotion) to the wielder. the next spell promotion to do this will remove the previous spell promotion gained in this way.
				AMBER AMULET:		(Equipment) Unit Heals 50% faster in all territories.
				DARK SWORD:		(Equipment) Transferes the 'Feeble' promotion after combat. 
				Feeble:			Unit gets -2 strength perminantly. if strength reaches 0 the unit dies.

New Spell Effects:		Stage Ambush:		Turns the unit invisible (if not already), hidden nationality, lose all movement points, and automatically attack any enemy unit that moves next to them ignoring all defence bonuses. they should get another spell which removes the 'stage ambush' effect.
				Hide:			Turns the unit Invisible and hidden nationality until after first combat.

							Strength	Movement	Elemental Str.	First Strikes	Withdraw %	Transport cap	Promotions				Special			
Ancient					
		
Worker							0		2		-		-		-		-		-					-
Warrior							3		1		-		-		-		-		-					-
Spearman						4		1		-		-		-		-		-					+50% vs Mounted
Archer							3		1		-		-		-		-		-					+25% City Defence, +25% hill Defence, may make 'aerial attack' (range 1) to 70% max damage.
Axeman: Naggaryth Blade Fury (UU)			4		1		-		-		10%		-		Subject to Frenzy			+50% vs Melee
Swordman						5		1		-		-		-		-		-					+25% vs Archer
Horseman						5		2		-		-		-		-		-					+25% vs Melee
Catapult: NONE						
Chariot: NONE						
Monster Ia: Dark Pegasus or Helmount			4		3		-		-		-		1		Fly					-
Monster Ib: Arach Rider (UU)				2		2		3 poison	2		-		-		Invisible, Ambush			-
Scout: Naggaryth Scout (UU)				1		2		-		-		-		-		Ambush					+50% vs Animals
Hunter: Druchii Huntsman (UU)				4		2		-		-		-		-		-					+50% vs Animals, +50% vs Beasts
Hedgewizard: Aspirant					2		1		-		-		-		-		Channeling 1, Dark Magic		-
Galley: Death Galley (UU)				2		1		-		-		-		1		-					-	
Trireme: Doom Reaver (UU)				2		2		-		-		-		-		-					+50% v. Galleys	

Age of Magic
Horse-Archer: NONE 
Militia Spearman					6		1		-		-		-		-		-					+50% vs Mounted					
Militia Archer: NONE replaced by Shade (UU)		3		2		1 poison	-		10%		-		-					May Cast Hide
Ranger: Beastmaster (UU)				7		2		-		-		-		-		Tame Animal, Tame Beast			+100% strength vs beast, +150% vs Animals	
Militia Swordsman: Corsairs (UU)			8		1		-		-		-		-		Boarding Party				May enslave defested units, may capture ships. +25% vs Archer.	
Light Knight: Dark Rider (UU)				8		2		-		-		-		-		Ambush					may make 'aerial attack' (range 1) to 75% max damage	
Wizard: Sorceress					4		1		-		-		-		-		Channeling 2, Dark Magic		-	
Bolt-Thrower: Reaver Bolt Thrower			8		1		-		-		-		-		-					Causes Collateral Damage max 4 units. can bombard city defences.	
War Chariot: Cold One Chariot				7		2		-		1		-		-		Fear, Stupidity, Scaly Skin		+50% vs Infantry, Flanking bonus vs infantry.
Monster IIa: Hydra (UU)					6		1		1 poison/1 fire	-		-		-		Scaly Skin				Causes Collateral Damage max 5 units, no damage limit.	
Monster IIb: Harpies (UU)				5		3		-		-		-		-		Fly					-	
Caravel: Doom Reaver (UU)				2		2		-		-		-		-		-					+50% vs Galleys	
Sea-monster I: Helldrake (UU)				5		3		-		-		-		-		-					+50% vs Ships		

Age of Discovery

Royal Guard: Black Guard (UU)				15		1		-		-		-		-		Guardian				+50% City Defence. +25% vs Mounted, +25% vs melee.
Pikemen: Druchii Drannach Warrior			10		1		-		-		-		-		-					+50% vs Mounted
Longbow: NONE replaced by Druchii Assassin (UU)		9		2		5 poison	2		20%		-		-					Targets Weakest Unit, may Cast Hide
Crossbowman: Druchii Uraithen Warrior (UU)		9		1		-		-		-		-		-					Ignores Defence bonuses. may make 'aerial attack' (range 1) to 80% max damage. +25% city defence, +25% Hill Defence.
Heavy Knight: Cold One Knights (UU)			15		2		-		-		-		-		-					+25% vs beasts, +50% vs Siege. Flanking bonus vs Siege.
Wizard Lord: High Sorceress				6		1		-		-		-		-		Channeling 3, Dark Magic		-
Cannon:NONE Replaced by War Hydra (UUs)			12		1		1 poison/1 fire	-		-		-		Scaly Skin, Breath Fire, Fear		Causes Collateral Damage max 5 units, no damage limit.
Cannon:NONE Replaced by Cold One Pack (UUs)		11		3		-		-		-		-		Fear, Stupidity, Scaly Skin, Blitz	-
Galleon: Death Fortress (UU)				8		3		-		-		-		3		-					enslaves defeated ships
Frigate: Sea Dragon (UU)				6		4		-		-		-		-		-					+50% vs Ships, breath fire.
Religious(Maybe Cult of Khaine as Guild?):	
Witchelves-> (UU)					10		2		2 Poison	-		20%		-		Subject to Frenzy			-
Witchelf Hag (UU)					10		2		4 Poison	-		20%		-		Subject to Frenzy, Canibalize		-
Executioners(Inquisitor) (UU)				14		1		-		-		-		-		-					+100% vs Melee, may remove non state religion.

Mechanical Age
Cavalry: heavey Cold One Knight (UU)			19		2		-		-		-		-		Fear, Stupidity, Scaly Skin		+25% vs beasts, +50% vs Siege. Flanking bonus vs Siege.
Musketman: NONE			
Monster IIIa: Black Dragon (UU)				26		4		-		-		-		-		Terror, Scaly Skin, Breath Fire, Fly	-
Monster IIIb: Black Manticore (UU)			19		2		-		3		30%		1		Fly, Terror				-
Ironclad: Black Ark of Naggaroth (UU)			14		2		-		-		-		7		-					enslaves defeated units (including sea monsters) and turns cargo-> slaves if the ark has empty transport slots)
Uber-Mage: Sorceress Matriarch (UU)			8		1		-		-		-		-		Channeling 4, Dark Magic		-			

Heros:
Malekith						12		1		-		-		-		-		Fear, Immune to Psychology, 		If malekith is in a stack with a heavy Cold one Chariot or a Black Dragon, he may cast a spell to mount either of those units. 
																			Witch kings Armour, DESTROYER, 		
																			Channeling 1/2/3, Dark Magic		
Morathi							7		3		-		-		20%		-		Fly, Channeling 1/2/3/4, Dark Magic, 	Immune to Magic, spells never fail.
																			AMBER AMULET, DARK SWORD

 

[rocklikeafool]

Why is it that, based off of Malekith's strength, he is less powerful than a Heavy Cold One Knight? Does the equipment heroes get offset this nough so heroes don't become outdated?