Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

[Leoreth]

"Currently in +1 cities" means that there is one city that would get more unhappy population if you lose the resources. For example, if you have four already unhappy cities, you would see "currently in +1 cities" when trading away your second instance of a resource that affects three cities. But also, if you have three happy cities but one of them is at exactly equal happiness and unhappiness, you would see the same when trading away the last instance of a resource. All of this is aware of the order of which cities would lose access to a resource.

Likewise "for +2 cities" means that there are two unhappy cities that would gain access to the resource and therefore have less unhappy population.

I added this because I found it very intransparent in the diplomacy window if you would gain/lose anything from additional/fewer resources. Note that +0 doesn't necessarily mean that its useless. The second instance of a resource might not have any benefit because the affected cities are already happy/healthy, but the third might. Still, this is a lot more informative than what we previously had.

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

Overall question: How do you turn off specific "Victory Conditions"?

I haven't done this for some time, but I think it should still work.
Edit RFC Dawn of Civilization.ini and set NoCustomScenario to 0. Then in the game you should be able to use Custom Scenario option and pick what game options and victory conditions you want to be active. You probably can't turn off your UHV this way because it is likely that it is not integrated into the DLL that well.

 

[Leoreth]

You should be able to.

 

[Temüjin VIII]

"Currently in +1 cities" means that there is one city that would get more unhappy population if you lose the resources. For example, if you have four already unhappy cities, you would see "currently in +1 cities" when trading away your second instance of a resource that affects three cities. But also, if you have three happy cities but one of them is at exactly equal happiness and unhappiness, you would see the same when trading away the last instance of a resource. All of this is aware of the order of which cities would lose access to a resource.

Likewise "for +2 cities" means that there are two unhappy cities that would gain access to the resource and therefore have less unhappy population.

I added this because I found it very intransparent in the diplomacy window if you would gain/lose anything from additional/fewer resources. Note that +0 doesn't necessarily mean that its useless. The second instance of a resource might not have any benefit because the affected cities are already happy/healthy, but the third might. Still, this is a lot more informative than what we previously had.

I see. To clarify, "Currently in +x cities" is shown on your resources (both happiness and health), and "for +x cities" is shown on the other civ's resources? And since the number pertains to the number of cities that could switch happy/healthy status, that could be from 0-3?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, correct.

 

[Enyavar]

Just a quick question, is the Protestant Holy City supposed to be chosen randomly among the cities of your Empire, or is it fixed?

I always thought it was random, but now it seems to me that Vienna is the only option when playing as HRE.

Edit: The Pedia-Text still says that Reformation is linked to "Printing Press" instead of correctly stating it is "Academia".

 

[Leoreth]

Which pedia text?

 

[Enyavar]

Which pedia text?

Civiliopedia --> Concepts --> Reformation
There is no hint about what determines the holy city, but I can tell it is not a random city.

 

[DanLT3]

When I play HRE Frankfurt seems to be the only option for holy city. I had to gift it away to get Wien to get the holy city.

 

[Fresol]

For Protestantism It's always your capital I think. So if you want Wien to be the holy city just don't found cities until the flip happens.

 

[DanLT3]

For Protestantism It's always your capital I think. So if you want Wien to be the holy city just don't found cities until the flip happens.

Not true, I even switched capital to Wien building a Palace. Still Frankfurt got the holy city.

 

[Enyavar]

I settled Köln and Erfurt instead of Frankfurt... and my capitol is Brandenburg.

So there must be a list of cities approved for (HRE) Protestant holy city.
My current suspicion is an algorithm that says: If Frankfurt doesn't exist --> Wien.

The amount of churches, or other faiths present isn't influencing anything: I had other cities with pure Cath, with no religion, or with Judaism present. Sometimes Judaism was removed from Wien as a result of Cath spreading, other times it remained. Any number of Cath civilizations flipped their faith; in my final run it was England going on crusade against the flippers (Portugal, Poland, France and me flipped), while Spain remained excommunicated (heheh, not regretting that). So, thanks to eliminated Vikings and never-spawned Italians: guaranteed English pope.

 

[DanLT3]

I also tested by settling Dortmund (1 SE of Amsterdam) instead of Frankfurt and it still got the holy city (even with Wien as capital).

 

[merijn_v1]

Protestantism has no hard coded citylist, but there are some elements in favor if Frankfurt becoming the holy city (if HRE founds protestantism).

So there must be a list of cities approved for (HRE) Protestant holy city.
My current suspicion is an algorithm that says: If Frankfurt doesn't exist --> Wien.

This is not true. There is no such list.

Some cities do get a bonus when determining the holy city. For example Parsa gets a huge bonus for founding Zoroastrianism. But Protestantism does NOT have a favored city.

The amount of churches, or other faiths present isn't influencing anything:

True and not true. The amount of churches does no influence the anything. Other religions being present makes a city less likely becoming the holy city. But usually all HRE cities are catholic, so all have the same penalty making it having practically no influence.

Other city properties that influence the likeliness:
- higher population increases the chance of becoming the holy city
- being the capital reduces the chance of becoming the holy city
- being in the same region as your capital

There also is a bit randomness involved as well.

 

[DanLT3]

So a big city in the same region as your capital (but not your capital) is the most likely (yet random) to be the holy city. The randomness is based on the seed I guess, because a saved game the turn before always gives the same result.

 

[Enyavar]

But Protestantism does NOT have a favored city.

The game had the choice between Kiel, Brandenburg, Freiburg, Köln, München, Erfurt and Wien. Brandenburg was capital and most populous, followed by Freiburg, Köln and Kiel. Wien only comes after those four.

From 1380 to 1440, I was always going to develop Academia the next turn. Protestant Holy City: Always Wien. Each turn. Then I saveloaded, dialed in another tech to progress first, and tried Academia again one turn later. Wien again.

But as you say "region", what does the game calculate as "regions"? Wien IS my only city in the 1700 HRE core, while the other cities all sit in the future Prussian core. Even though Prussia doesn't exist for 60 turns yet, in 1400.

 

[merijn_v1]

The game had the choice between Kiel, Brandenburg, Freiburg, Köln, München, Erfurt and Wien. Brandenburg was capital and most populous, followed by Freiburg, Köln and Kiel. Wien only comes after those four.

From 1380 to 1440, I was always going to develop Academia the next turn. Protestant Holy City: Always Wien. Each turn. Then I saveloaded, dialed in another tech to progress first, and tried Academia again one turn later. Wien again.

I looked again at the code and saw the reason for this. There is another thing that influences the value, which is that outside of Europe, the value is set to a certain value. But looking at this part of the code again, I spotted a bug in this part, which makes it apply to all cities. As a result all cities have the same value. When multiple cities have the highest value, it picks the first one in the list of cities the code looped through. That is usually Frankfurt. Or in your case it is always Wien.

I made bug report.

But as you say "region", what does the game calculate as "regions"? Wien IS my only city in the 1700 HRE core, while the other cities all sit in the future Prussian core. Even though Prussia doesn't exist for 60 turns yet, in 1400.

Each tile is assigned to a certain region, which is used for various game mechanics. The WB has a to show all regions. Go to the DoC-Maps menu and select the Region ID map. If you enable the "selects all tiles in the region" button, all the tiles that are in the same regions as the one your mouse is on are highlighted. (You can see the name of that region on top of the screen)

All of your cities are in the "Europe" region.

 

[Xfactor]

* Edit:Moved to suggestions and request topic *

 

[need my speed]

I remember the game's inherent limit on the amount of vassals once being discussed - was this ever removed from this mod? I'm thinking of starting a game where I will vassalise the entire world, but if that is hardcoded to be impossible...?

 

[Lost King]

I have a question about the -stability "civic is outdated" debuff. Is there a clear way to tell which civics are outdated? Perhaps I'm missing something, but if it is somewhat hidden it would be nice to be able to tell which civics are outdated on the civics screen.