Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

[Leoreth]

It's more of a general idea than a clear definition. I was limited by symbols already in the game as I did not want to add more just for this. The globe represents both exploration and (peaceful) expansion, so in the strengths section it can mean having space to expand or the ability to explore, and in challenges it usually refers to exploration goals or expansion goals that do not require (much) conquest. The golden age symbol is used to refer to golden ages and wonders.

 

[Aradziem]

A small note about this text in civilopedia.
In Polish Wielki means the same as the Great in english so here it's the same information doubled.

 

[Dracosolon]

The Great, Squared

 

[Steb]

The current player is only used as a fallback in case there are no historians for the leading civs or there is no contact with them yet. My assumption would be that a player civ is usually going to be up in the rankings anyway. This also covers for situations where smaller civilizations don't have a historian defined.

I guess I'm a bit concerned that we would rarely or never see the historians of typically lower-ranked civs, including those that tend to be lower-ranked even under player control, like Congo or Tibet or Canada. Not that it matters immensely but it makes it less tempting to try to add historian names to more minor civs.

 

[DpInt]

I've made a test run for Spain up until 1500, prospecting the roadblocks for a historical victory. The first goal is easy, the 12 gold/silver resources aren't difficult to get, winning the Reformation wars might be tight but it's very doable, so I'm guessing that the real trouble will be the 30% spread for Catholicism. In my test run I've razed Lisbon to maxizime food for my core cities, but I'm wondering if the extra core population is worth not having any Portugal. I assume that under a normal run, Portugal will probably be settling small posts all the way to India, therefore contributing a little bit to Catholicism spread. Do you think this is worth it, or would you raze Lisbon too?

 

[Hickman888]

I've made a test run for Spain up until 1500, prospecting the roadblocks for a historical victory. The first goal is easy, the 12 gold/silver resources aren't difficult to get, winning the Reformation wars might be tight but it's very doable, so I'm guessing that the real trouble will be the 30% spread for Catholicism. In my test run I've razed Lisbon to maxizime food for my core cities, but I'm wondering if the extra core population is worth not having any Portugal. I assume that under a normal run, Portugal will probably be settling small posts all the way to India, therefore contributing a little bit to Catholicism spread. Do you think this is worth it, or would you raze Lisbon too?

I think it's probably not worth it. Portugal usually ends up settling a lot of colonies in Africa and Brazil, and since they are a Catholic country, those all contribute a bit more to your goal.

 

[AOS9001]

Yeah, in the chance Portugal fully settles Brazil, the African coast, and parts of south Asia by 1650, they'd contribute more to the Catholicism % than if you raze Lisboa for a bigger core population. Your culture is going to end up taking most of Lisboa's tiles, anyway (Leoreth pls fix how easy it is to take other civ's core tiles via culture, Portugal and Netherlands are begging you).

This assumes Portugal actually tries, of course. I haven't been able to play lately so I don't know what the AI is up to in the past few updates.

 

[DpInt]

Thanks for the tips yesterday. The third goal becomes much easier when you have England, France and Portugal remain Catholic early and in good shape. I had a lucky reformation where only France, Norway and Sweden converted (I had prepared a pretty large invasion fleet to take England out first!), while England and HRE tolerated sects. I had great prophets convert Mali, Kilwa and Vijanagar, though I didn't convert enough Incan cities before they collapsed. By ~1600, I was regrouping all my armies to invade Ottomans next, but I reached a pretty high Catholic percentage before I had to declare war.

Spoiler Spain UHV Images :

 

[jplay51]

Hey y’all- how do colonies work in this? Playing Dutch and got the auto pop armies for the americas, but stuck with hopelessly unproductive and expensive cities even with col policy. Also malacca and Indonesia don’t seem to be worth it/underperform. I’ve never had trouble with trade in any civ4 mod but I’m struggling!

I only seem to be able to free cities to independent via the domestic advisor screen, but never get any options for things like VOC Indonesia as shown in one of the promotional images.

Ty for making this it’s great!!

 

[DpInt]

Hey y’all- how do colonies work in this? Playing Dutch and got the auto pop armies for the americas, but stuck with hopelessly unproductive and expensive cities even with col policy. Also malacca and Indonesia don’t seem to be worth it/underperform. I’ve never had trouble with trade in any civ4 mod but I’m struggling!

I only seem to be able to free cities to independent via the domestic advisor screen, but never get any options for things like VOC Indonesia as shown in one of the promotional images.

Ty for making this it’s great!!

In vanilla Civ4 you want as many of your cities as possible to grow large and powerful, to counter-act the quadratic growth of city maintenance costs, but in RFC/DoC many of your cities won't be capable of being very productive, so you want your core cities to grow as large as possible, and your peripheral cities to grow only as long as each of their pops give/will give you a lot of yields. Some of these peripheral cities are still good to have if they give you resources or strategic points (such as Panama).

For early modern colonialism, you also want to build the trading company building. It slightly increases the yields of some of your colonies and may give you an event where you can spend gold to get armies/colonists/other useful units in your historical area. Sometimes you may prefer to have a vassal manage those cities (depending on your goals for the game, how good the terrain is, how stable the vassal would be, etc.), but currently you can only do that by attacking the civilization of the area if it exists there, or if by some miracle they offer to become your vassal by themselves. I'd like the option to "free" some of your peripheral cities as a vassal (like a trading company), but afaik you can only sometimes free them as sovereign countries.

It'd be helpful if you also mentioned what version, difficult and speed you're playing at.

 

[Leoreth]

Regarding the new Portuguese victory conditions, I honestly did not check if they make sense. Please report back if they are too easy or too difficult.

 

[Stuart98]

I'm curious if super Moors is something that's somewhat common; I did a 3000 BC America spawn and the Moors were the top scoring civ when I spawned, controlling all of their core (minus a the tiles north and to the immediate sides of Cordoba) as well as all of West Africa, and they stayed well ahead of the rest of the old world civs the rest of the game too, briefly losing their Iberian holdings at some point but getting them back via a congress and a brief war after. (This was before yesterday's git update)

 

[Lilna]

I'm curious if super Moors is something that's somewhat common; I did a 3000 BC America spawn and the Moors were the top scoring civ when I spawned, controlling all of their core (minus a the tiles north and to the immediate sides of Cordoba) as well as all of West Africa, and they stayed well ahead of the rest of the old world civs the rest of the game too, briefly losing their Iberian holdings at some point but getting them back via a congress and a brief war after. (This was before yesterday's git update)

From the games I've played, it's rare for them to survive the Iberians, but if they do then they've got superpower potential. Which seems to be WAD to me - a rare alt history sorta deal.

 

[Leoreth]

Is this only for the 3000 BC scenario or also for 600 AD?

 

[Ecthy]

What does it mean, production flavour from Leverage?

 

[Zaddy]

Is this only for the 3000 BC scenario or also for 600 AD?

For what it's worth, I just started a 3000 BC Japan game and the Moors have been on top of the scoreboard the entire game. They built Bell Rock Lighthouse in the 1730s (which I was beelining, annoyed me quite a bit aha) and are in the early Industrial era (granted, everyone else is teching a good bit ahead of where they should be too, including me). This is my first game in a while so I can't speak to 600 AD.

 

[Leoreth]

What does it mean, production flavour from Leverage?

The primary purpose of tech flavours is to influence AI behaviour, i.e. production oriented leaders focus on techs with production flavour etc. But the main reason for this change was to include Leverage in the list of techs that Great Engineers can bulb (which is all techs that have production flavour).

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Would others agree that balancing feedback should be divided into "epochs" (3000BC-600AD, 600AD-1700AD), 1700AD-2020AD)? It seems quite unreasonable to expect, for example, a 3000BC start to hold a good balance into the Medieval Era let alone when a late civ like America spawns, nay?

 

[SultanRedSnake]

@DpInt vassalizing Portugal is 100% the move. Believe it or not, one of the main reasons they sometimes struggle to colonize is lack of map information, so be sure to keep theirs up to date. Also be aware that running Colonialism reduces Peripheral Stability in Colonies so make sure to get them Geography ASAP, especially since you'll be eating many of Lisbon's tiles.

 

[FraggleJock]

Would others agree that balancing feedback should be divided into "epochs" (3000BC-600AD, 600AD-1700AD), 1700AD-2020AD)? It seems quite unreasonable to expect, for example, a 3000AD start to hold a good balance into the Medieval Era let alone when a late civ like America spawns, nay?

Sweeet! a 3000AD scenario when you gonna release it