Dawn of man audio files for upcoming leaders

[Vandlys]

And here I was this was a discussion about the leaked audio.

 

[Francel]

I feel stupid… completely skipped reading this thread til now cause I thought “Dawn of Man” was a different upcoming game.

The new intros are lovely.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So to me Elizabeth sounds like she will focus on building up her navy. Possibly her agenda will be the opposite of Harald in which she will hate other leaders with a larger navy.

Ludwig sounds like he will be a wonder builder. Possibly all wonders he builds will yield extra culture.

Rameses II will be the religious/builder pharaoh that Egypt has needed for the longest.

I can see Theodora getting loyalty problems, or rebel partisan spawning, whenever she builds a hippodrome.

Wu Zetian sounds like she'll be a new black queen. I could see her spies working better domestically than sending them to foreign civs.

Sundiata is vague but probably no trading bonuses.

Yongle either sounds exploration focused, or more likely scientific leader for China.

I expect Sejong to still be scientific but not sure how he'll differentiate from Seondok. Maybe wisdom also references religion/faith?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So to me Elizabeth sounds like she will focus on building up her navy. Possibly her agenda will be the opposite of Harald in which she will hate other leaders with a larger navy.

Ludwig sounds like he will be a wonder builder. Possibly all wonders he builds will yield extra culture.

Rameses II will be the religious/builder pharaoh that Egypt has needed for the longest.

I can see Theodora getting loyalty problems, or rebel partisan spawning, whenever she builds a hippodrome.

Wu Zetian sounds like she'll be a new black queen. I could see her spies working better domestically than sending them to foreign civs.

Sundiata is vague but probably no trading bonuses.

Yongle either sounds exploration focused, or more likely scientific leader for China.

I expect Sejong to still be scientific but not sure how he'll differentiate from Seondok. Maybe wisdom also references religion/faith?

Sejong sounds like he might have something to do with civics/governments in addition to Science. Maybe an extra slot of some kind?

 

[Zaarin]

Rameses II will be the religious/builder pharaoh that Egypt has needed for the longest.

sad Akhenaten noises

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Sejong sounds like he might have something to do with civics/governments in addition to Science. Maybe an extra slot of some kind?

That makes more sense.
Irregardless, Sejong might be the first leader in game to prefer Confucianism, even if he isn't presented as a religious leader.

 

[Zaarin]

That makes more sense.
Irregardless, Sejong might be the first leader in game to prefer Confucianism, even if he isn't presented as a religious leader.

It is pretty fascinating that with four leaders of China, one is Taoist and three are Buddhist and not one is Confucian.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It is pretty fascinating that with four leaders of China, one is Taoist and three are Buddhist and not one is Confucian.

That reminds me, does Tokugawa prefer Buddhism or Shinto?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It is pretty fascinating that with four leaders of China, one is Taoist and three are Buddhist and not one is Confucian.

I emphasized might be because isn't there a chance that Yongle might be Confucian, if not Buddhist?

 

[Zaarin]

That reminds me, does Tokugawa prefer Buddhism or Shinto?

The wiki says Buddhism. I wonder what Historical Religions assigns him to, though.

I emphasized might be because isn't there a chance that Yongle might be Confucian, if not Buddhist?

Historically he was Buddhist, as was Wu (unlike the rest of the Tang, if you want to lump her in with them).

 

[AntSou]

That reminds me, does Tokugawa prefer Buddhism or Shinto?

Buddhism according to Civpedia, but Tomatekh's Historical Religions has already been updated.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

OH. MY. GOD. Ludwig II. I was already overly-hyped for him, as one of my favourite germanic rulers ever (so interesting as a guy), and as a dreamer myself, this intro just made me chill. If the abilities and model are at the same level as the intro, Ludwig II might clearly become one of my, if not the, favourite leader.

The rest are great, though.

 

[Lord Lakely]

So to me Elizabeth sounds like she will focus on building up her navy. Possibly her agenda will be the opposite of Harald in which she will hate other leaders with a larger navy.

Ludwig sounds like he will be a wonder builder. Possibly all wonders he builds will yield extra culture.

Rameses II will be the religious/builder pharaoh that Egypt has needed for the longest.

I can see Theodora getting loyalty problems, or rebel partisan spawning, whenever she builds a hippodrome.

Wu Zetian sounds like she'll be a new black queen. I could see her spies working better domestically than sending them to foreign civs.

Sundiata is vague but probably no trading bonuses.

Yongle either sounds exploration focused, or more likely scientific leader for China.

I expect Sejong to still be scientific but not sure how he'll differentiate from Seondok. Maybe wisdom also references religion/faith?

Sundiata's hints very heavily that his ability or agenda is called Lion of Mali, which sounds warlike to me.

Ludwig's LUA or agenda will likewise be Swan King and obviously culture-oriented.

Yongle is scientific, which leaves Wu Zetian for a loyalty bonus of sorts. Wu Zetian was notorious for how ruthlessly she weeded out corruption during het reign, would not be surprised if it's another of those "bonus to all yields if X, malus if Y" abilities.).

Sejong likely ties in Science with Culture in some way. Could see a Eureka theme, where Eureka's can't be earned, but earning an Inspiration quarters the cost of a random tech.

I think you've nailed the others

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Sundiata's hints very heavily that his ability or agenda is called Lion of Mali, which sounds warlike to me.

Warlike sounds plausible. I mentioned it earlier that they might want to make Mali like Songhai was in Civ 5, with him.

Yongle is scientific, which leaves Wu Zetian for a loyalty bonus of sorts. Wu Zetian was notorious for how ruthlessly she weeded out corruption during het reign, would not be surprised if it's another of those "bonus to all yields if X, malus if Y" abilities.).

I can see increased loyalty/amenities whenever a spy is placed in one of your cities.

Also, I want to throw out Qin Shi Huang "The Unifier" persona sounds like he could have a chance to increase his population every time he comes into contact with a tribal villages/ clear a barbarian outpost within a certain number of tiles from his capital.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Warlike sounds plausible. I mentioned it earlier that they might want to make Mali like Songhai was in Civ 5, with him.


I can see increased loyalty/amenities whenever a spy is placed in one of your cities.

Also, I want to throw out Qin Shi Huang "The Unifier" persona sounds like he could have a chance to increase his population every time he comes into contact with a tribal villages/ clear a barbarian outpost within a certain number of tiles from his capital.

In the Julius Caesar livestream, Ed mentioned that Sundiata would have culture elements. He did not elaborate on that, however.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

In the Julius Caesar livestream, Ed mentioned that Sundiata would have culture elements. He did not elaborate on that, however.

Probably something to do with Sunjata, the epic poem about him and the formation of the Mali Empire.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Defining a religion is hard, the further away we get from Abrahamic traditions. There are many people who might identify simultaneously as Confucian, Buddhist, and Taoist (or, in Japan, Shinto). These first three in combination make up “Chinese traditional religion” (esp with aspects of ancestor worship). Sometimes there are conflicts - Confucianism’s focus on the role of the individual in society and Buddhisms role on the individual quest for non-attachment might place them in conflict in some eras, but not in others. Similarly, in some eras buddhism and Taoism (a quest for individual spiritual power) might fuse, in others remain separate (an international religion versus a strictly East Asian one). Calling someone “Buddhist” as opposed to the others is pretty arbitrary in most eras. Even Hinduism has overlap - many Hindus saw Buddhism as a variety of Hinduism, a pushback against caste and notions of self, but retaining a focus on the dharma.

Not only Civ, but the very word “religion” is inadequate to capture these religions, derived as it is from our (speaking as a European-American here) Abrahamic traditions. One might call Confucianism and Buddhism philosophies and not religions, one might call Taoism culture or even magic.

I’m reminded of the fluctuations in surveys of religion in Singapore. Christians and Muslims remain pretty constant, but Buddhists and Taoists constantly flip back and forth, depending on what’s more popular at the time, because the same people (about 50% of the population, and mostly ethnic Chinese people) in practice do both. But a survey demands one, and only one, answer.

Personally, I’m pretty agnostic. My family did Christian holidays but I study Theravada Buddhism for my research and am very familiar with temples and meditation and chants, so I might mark “Buddhist” on a survey that demands an answer. At the same time, I study and regularly attend animist rituals also for research, but animist isn’t a category (and, indeed, most of the divinities whose mediums I work with themselves identify as Buddhist).

Is Confucianism philosophy? Religion? Social science? It’s unclear. Is Hinduism culture? Ways of life? Religion? Are Balinese forms of Hinduism “the same” as Dravidian? As Aryan? All questions too big for the game right now. Take a college course in Asian religion.

Some leaders were explicit. Medieval Confucian leaders sometimes purged Buddhists, accusing them of being anti-family. Some Buddhist leaders invited monks to the court to try and revitalize religion or, at times, bolster an idea of spiritual power actually derived from Taoism (and ignoring conveniently Buddhist lessons on the denial of self). Some Confucian leaders purged Confucian scholars in favor of other Confucians who would write more favorably about them. Sometimes one religion would be the religion of the court, whereas common people could do whatever they liked.

 

[Zaarin]

Some leaders were explicit. Medieval Confucian leaders sometimes purged Buddhists, accusing them of being anti-family. Some Buddhist leaders invited monks to the court to try and revitalize religion or, at times, bolster an idea of spiritual power actually derived from Taoism (and ignoring conveniently Buddhist lessons on the denial of self). Some Confucian leaders purged Confucian scholars in favor of other Confucians who would write more favorably about them. Sometimes one religion would be the religion of the court, whereas common people could do whatever they liked.

One of my favorite such stories is how the Tang emperors maintained a chapel for the Church of the East at their court, which then got purged by the Song in the midst of their anti-Buddhist campaign that also caught Christians and Manichaeans in its crossfire. The Manichaeans endured the purge; the Church of the East did not, though it would once again gain some prominence in China under the Yuan (Kublai Khan's own mother adhered to the Church of the East). The Church of the East has a fascinating history of frequently "almost making it." They were patronized by the Sassanids (mostly because they were persecuted by the Romans), only for the Sassanids to get conquered by the Abbasids. The Abbasids maintained the Church of the East's scholarly traditions as well as the old Sassanid tradition of selecting their court physicians from the Church of the East, but their influence was much diminished compared to what it was under the Sassanids--and then lost entirely after the Seljuks took over. They gained influence in Tang China, only to lose it under the Song. They initially gained influence in the Mongolian courts, only to lose it to Buddhism in the East and Islam in the West. The Church of the East is one of my favorite segments of ecclesiastic history. (I just wish we could find a better adjective for them. The traditional one, "Nestorian," is inaccurate, and "Eastern Christian" is an imprecise label that also includes Miaphysite Christians like Syriacs, Armenians, Copts, and Ethiopians as well as Orthodox Christians like Greeks and Russians.)

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Absolutely! And I wonder, too, about how different their understanding of theology would have been (judging from the huge changes buddhism made when crossing from india to China).

The early history of Christianity (and Islam, in Korea) in East Asia is really fascinating, as is the very brief history (well, suggestions) of Buddhism in classical antiquity - there are burials in Egypt during Ptolemaic times with the Wheel of Dharma on them. (Or, interestingly enough, votive figures of Neptune found in Vietnam). We often represent East Asian / European encounters like two distant civilizations meeting for the first time, and ignore long chains of contact.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yongle is pretty vague also. Histories can be rewritten...

+era score for reloading . . .