[LP] Leader Pass Pack 6: Rulers of England (Mar. 2023) - Patch Notes Discussion

[blackbutterfly]

If anything, Elizabeth should have got a reworked Sea Dog as her leader UU, and then we could have got the Longbowmen as the civ UU.
Redcoats are supposed to represent the might of the British Empire, not necessarily the English Empire, so being only for the Age of Empire Victoria fits.

I would have been even more surprised if he did.

Vikings but no longship?!

TBH I think several UUs in the game have been misplaced.

In an ideal world...

Viking Longship should have been Norway's UU. Berserker should have been the leaders.

Same with England.
I agree Sea Dog is very much Elizabethan and should have been her unique.
The iconic Redcoat should have been England's UU.

IMO many of the leader traits have been shoehorned into those in the Leader Pass contrary to history.

Thank god for Amplitude and HUMANKIND!

 

[pokiehl]

Major Elizabeth bug:

So I got my first Great Admiral (classical age) with her, and did not receive 2 trader slots. I even retired the admiral on a ship. Still, no bonus. Several turns later, there is no evidence of this bonus.

Anyone else getting this? I'm looking over everything and it really appears that the bonus is not triggering.

Edit: I just recruited Yi Sun-sin (renaissance great Admiral) and now it worked. So you have to get a renaissance great admiral apparently?

Edit: says " must be Renaissance or earlier" but earlier doesn't seem to work?

Not a bug, just really weird design.

You have to get a Renaissance or earlier Admiral from the standard ruleset—meaning, it can’t be a Great Admiral added with DLC.

Why? I presume to maximize the chances you getting Drake for meme potential or something.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Vikings but no longship?!

TBH I think several UUs in the game have been misplaced.

In an ideal world...

Viking Longship should have been Norway's UU. Berserker should have been the leaders.

Same with England.
I agree Sea Dog is very much Elizabethan and should have been her unique.
The iconic Redcoat should have been England's UU.

IMO many of the leader traits have been shoehorned into those in the Leader Pass contrary to history.

Thank god for Amplitude and HUMANKIND!

In my opinion, the Viking Longship fits well with the Viking King persona of original Harald, while the Berserker fits better with both. Members of the Varangian Guard were known to use the traits that berserkers were known for.

In regard to the Ottomans, I think switching them is a better argument, but it's not the end of the world to me. I don't usually pick civs and leaders based off of available UUs.

Not a bug, just really weird design.

You have to get a Renaissance or earlier Admiral from the standard ruleset—meaning, it can’t be a Great Person added from Rise and Fall or Gathering Storm.

Why? I presume to maximize the chances you getting Drake as the admiral for meme potential or something.

Really? The least they could have done is give us an achievement for it, if that's what is intended.

 

[pokiehl]

Really? The least they could have done is give us an achievement for it, if that's what is intended.

That’s just my speculation, but I’m really having a hard time understanding what other reason it could be. They could have definitely added support for other Great Admirals added through DLC.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That’s just my speculation, but I’m really having a hard time understanding what other reason it could be. They could have definitely added support for other Great Admirals added through DLC.

I wonder if we'll eventually get clarification, because the way it reads it should be any Great Admiral.

 

[Infixo]

People on reddit report that one needs actually a Great Admiral from Renaisaance or later… they dont get trade routes from earlier ones. Eh…

 

[Infixo]

I got curious...
<ModifierId>ELIZABETH_TRADE_ROUTES_MODIFIER</ModifierId>
<ModifierType>MODIFIER_PLAYER_ADJUST_TRADE_ROUTE_CAPACITY</ModifierType>
<OwnerRequirementSetId>PLAYER_HAS_GREAT_ADMIRAL_REQUIREMENTS</OwnerRequirementSetId>
<RunOnce>true</RunOnce>
<Permanent>true</Permanent>
Hm... it lists individually each GA by name.
<RequirementSetId>PLAYER_HAS_GREAT_ADMIRAL_REQUIREMENTS</RequirementSetId>
<RequirementId>PLAYER_HAS_ARTEMISIA</RequirementId>
Then
<RequirementId>PLAYER_HAS_ARTEMISIA</RequirementId>
<RequirementType>REQUIREMENT_PLAYER_HAS_GREAT_PERSON</RequirementType>
and
<RequirementId>PLAYER_HAS_ARTEMISIA</RequirementId>
<Name>GreatPersonIndividual</Name>
<Value>GREAT_PERSON_INDIVIDUAL_ARTEMISIA</Value>
Hm. All looks good?

 

[pokiehl]

I got curious...
<ModifierId>ELIZABETH_TRADE_ROUTES_MODIFIER</ModifierId>
<ModifierType>MODIFIER_PLAYER_ADJUST_TRADE_ROUTE_CAPACITY</ModifierType>
<OwnerRequirementSetId>PLAYER_HAS_GREAT_ADMIRAL_REQUIREMENTS</OwnerRequirementSetId>
<RunOnce>true</RunOnce>
<Permanent>true</Permanent>
Hm... it lists individually each GA by name.
<RequirementSetId>PLAYER_HAS_GREAT_ADMIRAL_REQUIREMENTS</RequirementSetId>
<RequirementId>PLAYER_HAS_ARTEMISIA</RequirementId>
Then
<RequirementId>PLAYER_HAS_ARTEMISIA</RequirementId>
<RequirementType>REQUIREMENT_PLAYER_HAS_GREAT_PERSON</RequirementType>
and
<RequirementId>PLAYER_HAS_ARTEMISIA</RequirementId>
<Name>GreatPersonIndividual</Name>
<Value>GREAT_PERSON_INDIVIDUAL_ARTEMISIA</Value>
Hm. All looks good?

I don’t think it’s bugged at all. It’s just like the ability description says: it has to be a Great Admiral from the standard ruleset (not one from DLC).

 

[blackbutterfly]

I don’t think it’s bugged at all. It’s just like the ability description says: it has to be a Great Admiral from the standard ruleset (not one from DLC).

 

[Infixo]

I don’t think it’s bugged at all. It’s just like the ability description says: it has to be a Great Admiral from the standard ruleset (not one from DLC).

Not bugged, but extremely lazy implemented. They just didn't want to add 3 other files that would trigger specific admirals when additional DLCs are present.
But it easily fixable.

 

[pokiehl]

Not bugged, but extremely lazy implemented. They just didn't want to add 3 other files that would trigger specific admirals when additional DLCs are present.
But it easily fixable.

I don’t feel comfortable attributing it to laziness or anything. They’ve had no issues with dlc-specific support in the past, and even on this very dlc.

Like I said, I just think it’s for the Drake memes.

To be clear: I don’t like the implementation at all.

 

[Aurelesk]

They ran out of the ideas for agenda.

To be fair, if we have to recycle an Agenda, I would have liked a reverse-Harald III Hardråde (Viking) Agenda. Harald would "hate" civilization with no Navy in order to raid them safely, while Elizabeth would "hate" civilization with a big Navy in order to steal it with her Seadog (basically: sea-Genghis Khan). It would be thematic with her rivalry with Philip and his Armada, and fit with England as well since it never really liked that someone would dare to compete with its naval domination (see the Dreadnought arm race between England and Germany).

 

[Infixo]

Like I said, I just think it’s for the Drake memes.

Drake actually triggers it. Only Himerios, Magellan and Hanno are out.

 

[pokiehl]

Drake actually triggers it. Only Himerios, Magellan and Hanno are out.

Yeah. I think we're saying the same thing.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Like I said, I just think it’s for the Drake memes.

I think at this point Elizabeth has replaced Tamar as the Meme Queen.

To be fair, if we have to recycle an Agenda, I would have liked a reverse-Harald III Hardråde (Viking) Agenda. Harald would "hate" civilization with no Navy in order to raid them safely, while Elizabeth would "hate" civilization with a big Navy in order to steal it with her Seadog (basically: sea-Genghis Khan). It would be thematic with her rivalry with Philip and his Armada, and fit with England as well since it never really liked that someone would dare to compete with its naval domination (see the Dreadnought arm race between England and Germany).

When she was revealed back in November, I was sure that's what we would probably get.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I didn't get my +2 Trade Routes with my first Great Admiral, but I did get them with my second one.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think at this point Elizabeth has replaced Tamar as the Meme Queen.

When she was revealed back in November, I was sure that's what we would probably get.

I disagree.

Elizabeth was the O.G if anything for her line.

Tamar then came later when we were trying to guess her constantly.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Not a bug, just really weird design.

You have to get a Renaissance or earlier Admiral from the standard ruleset—meaning, it can’t be a Great Admiral added with DLC.

Why? I presume to maximize the chances you getting Drake for meme potential or something.

This is the exact problem. Thank you for clarifying this. My first admiral came from DLC. I have no idea why they made it so complicated with the "standard ruleset" clause, but I guess it makes sense given they want her to be compatible with the vanilla base game. Still, it just seems sloppy on their part. I don't know why they even have the "renaissance or earlier" condition. Just make it process once you get your first Great Admiral.

 

[AntSou]

wait is this referring to a previous bug where only the first animation ever showed up? cos i still reliably get no natural disaster animations for sationary ones after any reload/restart, they only show up the first time i load into a game each time i launch the application

I still get it as well. Isn't it caused by the asset bug?

Not a bug, just really weird design.

You have to get a Renaissance or earlier Admiral from the standard ruleset—meaning, it can’t be a Great Admiral added with DLC.

Why? I presume to maximize the chances you getting Drake for meme potential or something.

This just makes the whole thing unnecessarily annoying. It's very strange.

And the ability needs to ditch the renaissance era limit entirely. Playing England, it's pretty unlikely you'll not gain an admiral prior to the industrial era anyway. But even if your first admiral comes after the renaissance, so what?

Is it possible to grant a bonus for a specific GP? It would still be a weird design, but the ability could read "2 for first admiral... another 2 if you hire Drake".

 

[pokiehl]

I still get it as well. Isn't it caused by the asset bug?

That's not the asset bug; it's just a regular bug as far as I can tell. Annoying, but at least we can get around it by just closing the game and reloading.

This just makes the whole thing unnecessarily annoying. It's very strange.

And the ability needs to ditch the renaissance era limit entirely. Playing England, it's pretty unlikely you'll not gain an admiral prior to the industrial era anyway. But even if your first admiral comes after the renaissance, so what?

Is it possible to grant a bonus for a specific GP? It would still be a weird design, but the ability could read "2 for first admiral... another 2 if you hire Drake".

Yes, it can be done for a specific Great Person. In fact, that's how Victoria's ability is set up; it checks for each individual Great Admiral that meets the criteria of being from the base game and being Renaissance or earlier.

I think calling out a specific Great Person is just too "on the nose" for an ability...maybe that's why they went about it this way? I don't know.

I agree it's just a strange way of doing the ability. It's going to frustrate players and lead to a lot of bug reports.

And to be quite frank, the ability text IS outright misleading. It specifies "from the Standard Ruleset" right? But "Ruleset" explicitly refers to the expansions, and the ability is in fact locked to Great Admirals from base game. But for example, Hanno is excluded, even though he is from the Babylon Pack, which works with the Standard Ruleset.

That "standard ruleset" clause of the ability implies that Hanno should work. But clearly their real meaning was "Great Admirals not added by any DLC."

---

I hate to be the kind of person who pushes their glasses up their nose and says 'Well actually..." but I think it would've been a better ability if they just grant you the +2 Trade Routes for ANY Great Admiral, as you suggested, or even buffed it by making +1 Trade Route per EACH Great Admiral you get.