DD04 - Clash of the Titans (SID)

[denyd]

PBEM DD04: Clash of the Titans

So you always wanted to take on a SID AI, but hated when they ganged up on you, well now here’s your chance to get even with them. There’s a pair SID AI (Aztecs & Zulu) in a locked alliance waiting for you and the other human players. To win you’ll need either conquest or domination. I’ll try to setup embassies with the other humans, so we can work on the AI first before settling down to attacking one another.

Number of human players: 4
Number of AI: 2
Level: SID
Size: Large
Map: Normal weather & terrain on a Pangaea Map
Barbarians: Off
SGL: Off
Statue of Zeus: Minor Wonder requires Horses
Knights Templar: Minor Wonder requires Iron
Great Library: Add a library to each continental city (like TOA) (no free techs)

Starting bonus: Humans: 2 settlers, 2 workers, 2 Conquistadors & 200g
AI: 6 settlers, 10 workers, 18 Hoplites, 12 Immortals & 3 C-Scouts

Special rules: Only victory conditions are conquest or domination
All players can build AC (Mathematics) & Crusaders (Theology)
AI in a locked alliance – Humans vs. AI is Always War
AI can build Immortals, Hoplites, S-Mercs & Sipahi
AI GA when Immortals, Hoplites, S-Mercs or Sipahi first win
AI start with Warrior Code & Pottery
Zulu are now AGR & MIL

Roster: Cyc (Persia)
Soul_Warrior (Iroquois)
Calis (Celts)
DenyD (Dutch)
AI (Zulu)
AI (Aztecs)

 

[denyd]

Starting save has been sent to Cyc

Please review the start:

You should have 3 settlers, 3 workers, 2 Conquistadors & 200g

Conquistadors, Impi and Chasqui Scouts should not start a Golden Age (forgot to check)
Everyone should have contact (embassy) with everyone else. (forgot to check)
The Great Library should add a library to all of your cities (forgot to check)
Statue of Zeus is a minor wonder and you need horses (forgot to check)
Knights Templar is a minor wonder and you need iron (forgot to check)
Ancient Cavalry is available to all with Mathematics and you need horses (forgot to check)
Crusaders are available to all with Theology and you need iron (forgot to check)
The forgot to checks I'll do if no one else does when my turn comes around.

Everyone should declare war on the Zulu & Aztecs on turn 1.

If anything is wrong, now is the time to fix it.

Each player has 5 luxuries, one of which he has a monopoly on.

All of the uranium is in lands that will probably be in the hands of the AI when the game begins, so let's take them out before nukes are available. You will have easy access to the rest of the resources.

There are an equal number of goody huts on each subcontinent.

Changes to original plan:
I couldn't give any boats as a starting unit
AI got only Warrior Code & Pottery as starting techs
Barbarians are set to sedentary

 

[denyd]

I had a revelation this morning about why there are barbarians. If you add goody huts to the map, there has to barbarians available in the game. I also realized that the goody huts in this game will be land mines with 90% giving barbarians.

So, I'll be resending the start again tonight with the following changes:
1. No goody huts
2. Barbarians back to off (hopefully)
3. AI tribes will get all first level techs

And for being so patient, I'll give each player 5 of their primary AA offensive units (Immortals, Gallic Swords, Mounted Warriors & Ancient Cavalry) to use on the AI C-Scouts

Just curious, but since we all have met already, is anyone interested in combined research to get us ahead of the AI?

 

[soul_warrior]

im uber cool with combined research.
we WILL need it VS SID ai.
im rushing for the WHEEL at full speed.
ill be more than willing to share it later (or sooner)
anyone got BRONZE?

GPS calis.

 

[denyd]

The starting techs are:
Persia: BW & Masonry
Dutch: Alphabet & Pottery
Iroquois: Alphabet & Pottery
Celts: CB & Pottery

I looking to start researching either Writing or Mathematics (if I can get Masonry)

 

[Calis]

Should we start with a tech swap of all?

But after that it could be difficult to find a tech path where 4 civs can research something. How shall we solve that?

I turned off research for the first turn so we can discuss this.

GPS to DenyD...

 

[soul_warrior]

techs we all LACK:
warrior code, wheel

i suggest:
i go for wheel (eta 20?) > HORSEBACK
IRON by PERSIA, followed by POLY? currecncy? - debatable.
someone go for warrior code, followed by writing
someone go for MATH, followed by MYST.

i dont have the exact beaker cost, but this seems like a fair deal.
naturally, we all share when we get our respective techs.

BTW, for my first turn i had 3 settlers, 3 workers, 2 conquistadors.
was that the correct amount?

writing we can get later.
we have zero chance of getting philo, so we shouldnt bother.

 

[denyd]

Here's my first pass on combined research:

Persia: (32)
Iron Working (6)
Code of Laws (10)
Philosophy (6) (taking Republic as bonus)
Literature (10)

Celts: (28)
Mysticism (4)
Polytheism (12)
Map Making (12)

Dutch: (32)
Writing (8)
Mathematics (8)
Currency (16)

Iroquois: (32)
The Wheel (4)
Warrior Code (3)
Horseback Riding (5)
Construction (20)

Any suggestions? I tried to take into account your UU and starting techs. I don't see any bottlenecks.

X-post with SW: I think we've got a pretty good chance for Philosophy as the AI will probably go IW->HBR->Writing

 

[Calis]

Basically I agree, but I do not think that in an AW game Republic is very interesting due to war weariness. Shouldn't we go for Monarchy?

 

[Cyc]

Your tech runs look good, denyd. Sorry I couldn't get into Civfanatics last night. Don't know why I couldn't (strong winds, stolen bandwidth, whatever).

So we'll be getting a new starting save tonight? Sounds good, will miss the goody huts. But no Barbs and 5 Immortals sounds good.

If we start off with a Tech swap and keep trading Techs, (I realize the AI will have the first level of Techs) at what point will we be helping the AI, if at all? Will they be so far ahead of us that we will always be playing catch up?

I think I tried playing SID about 4 years ago.

 

[Cyc]

Basically I agree, but I do not think that in an AW game Republic is very interesting due to war weariness. Shouldn't we go for Monarchy?

Good point, Calis. All that war will catch up to us if we change to Republic. Maybe we should change it to we declare war with AI when we meet them. That would give us a brief chance to use Republic, and if they declare on us, we'd get a little hapiness.

 

[Calis]

Well, I am a Religious civ and changing the government is done quickly, but for the others it could be many wasted turns.

I actually would skip Republic here and go for Monarchy immediately.

 

[denyd]

Persia should be able to get Polytheism from you before they complete Philosophy, so the tech distribution will still work.

I'll make the changes and ship out the new start file tonight (along the the 4 other PBEM games I got today)

 

[Cyc]

Restart received. gps to SW.

War declared and starting techs offered. Researching IW.

 

[soul_warrior]

monarchy is the way to go.
this is really AW.
first we take Manhattan then we take the world

sent techs to all concerned parties.
started WHEEL (due in 19, will drop to 10 or so after i plop town 2 and 3)

gps calis

 

[Calis]

GPS to DenyD...

@Cyc: Could you please make sure to gift me the initial techs next now. you forgot to accept the deal...

 

[denyd]

Sent any missing techs that I had to each player - War declared on Aztecs & Zulu

GPS to Cyc

 

[Cyc]

I didn't forget, Calis. As I understood it, it was to be a trade (not a gift), and I followed standard trade procedures.

One thing we MIGHT want to look at is how much of an advantage Calis and SW will get for not declaring war on both AI tribes. Now who forgot?

gps to SW.

 

[Calis]

I didn't forget, Calis. As I understood it, it was to be a trade (not a gift), and I followed standard trade procedures.

One thing we MIGHT want to look at is how much of an advantage Calis and SW will get for not declaring war on both AI tribes. Now who forgot?

gps to SW.

Oh, if you think I (or we) did it on intend, we can restart at any time...

But it is that simple: I forgot.

But gifting te techs would speed up the start of research I think. But we MIGHT be able to start next turn...

 

[soul_warrior]

item one: i \FORGOT to declare!
item two: sent ALL techs i know to humans.
THEN I GOT WHEEL from AI.
and sent it out as well!!!!
as i stand, i could use a few donations.... hint, hint, hodge, nodge.....
item 3: gps calis