Deadlocks in Debates

[Abaddon]

Call in Perfs.

If the debate is deadlocked, do call Perf he will come in and give everyone the clear truth they need

We heard you the first time.. just ten posts earlier.

No. In fact, I would say mods should come down hard on people who tell others to ignore each other.

You cant force others or control them. You do have control over what you post. If you dont care for the discussion, fine, dont comment and just walk away. Or, if you think it reportable, then report it then walk away.

But telling two people to just ignore each other isnt a regular posters place and its just trolling to be honest. It helps nothing to make such comments.

Surprising that you would disagree...

Can't you at least see what a detrimental effect two people going at it hammer and tongs has in a thread? It destroys the discussion, excludes others, and usually leads to infractions and a lock. Posts get longer and longer as each reply is picked apart into multi-quote boxes.

No-one else can be bothered to read it all.. just the two having their moment.

I am sure i am not the only one that simply turns around and leaves if i look into a thread and see this.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I am sure i am not the only one that simply turns around and leaves if i look into a thread and see this.

I leave when I see that happen

 

[Hygro]

No. In fact, I would say mods should come down hard on people who tell others to ignore each other.

You cant force others or control them. You do have control over what you post. If you dont care for the discussion, fine, dont comment and just walk away. Or, if you think it reportable, then report it then walk away.

But telling two people to just ignore each other isnt a regular posters place and its just trolling to be honest. It helps nothing to make such comments.

Sometimes a good discussion gets derailed by a legally-ok but low quality discussion because two users decide to rehash the same content over and over and over again, from one thread to the next. These types of posts drive away the good discussion. When there's a consistency of which two posters those are in a given type of topic it is entirely appropriate that one member suggests the other two put each other on ignore.

 

[azzaman333]

Sometimes a good discussion gets derailed by a legally-ok but low quality discussion because two users decide to rehash the same content over and over and over again, from one thread to the next. These types of posts drive away the good discussion. When there's a consistency of which two posters those are in a given type of topic it is entirely appropriate that one member suggests the other two put each other on ignore.

How would those posters raise their post counts if they didn't argue the same silly arguments in every thread they meet?

 

[Lord Baal]

Sometimes a good discussion gets derailed by a legally-ok but low quality discussion because two users decide to rehash the same content over and over and over again, from one thread to the next. These types of posts drive away the good discussion. When there's a consistency of which two posters those are in a given type of topic it is entirely appropriate that one member suggests the other two put each other on ignore.

There is an old married couple in OT that is very bad for doing this exact thing.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

This is why i never read threads on american politics or religion anymore. Sooner or later they just devolve into the same old arguments.

 

[Perfection]

We heard you the first time.. just ten posts earlier.

I'm emphasizing the claim that I made earlier, specifically my ability to come into a debate and end the deadlock.

I am also reiterating my willingness to back that claim up with action to whoever may desire my skills.

 

[Hygro]

How would those posters raise their post counts if they didn't argue the same silly arguments in every thread they meet?

Sometimes those types of posters will have other types of threads they like whereas their problem-partners don't like them, so they don't "meet" and then it's not a problem.

 

[MobBoss]

Surprising that you would disagree...

Can't you at least see what a detrimental effect two people going at it hammer and tongs has in a thread? It destroys the discussion, excludes others, and usually leads to infractions and a lock. Posts get longer and longer as each reply is picked apart into multi-quote boxes.

Given that all posters here are presumably equal, who are you to decide whats detrimental and what isnt?

Is this your forum?

No?

Let others post how they will, learn to control your own emotion in regards to it, and report what needs to be reported, and then move on.

I find a post-style nazi to be just as distasteful as a grammer-nazi to be honest.

No-one else can be bothered to read it all.. just the two having their moment.

And whats wrong with that within reason? As long as it doesnt devolve into personal insults, flames or trolling, then big whoopee.

I am sure i am not the only one that simply turns around and leaves if i look into a thread and see this.

And?

Sometimes a good discussion gets derailed by a legally-ok but low quality discussion because two users decide to rehash the same content over and over and over again, from one thread to the next.

Who are you to decide whats low-quality and what isnt? Did some one elect you post quality control officer while we werent looking?

If you think the TOS has been breached, then report it. Those are the people duly appointed to monitor that sort of thing.

These types of posts drive away the good discussion.

By who's metric?

When there's a consistency of which two posters those are in a given type of topic it is entirely appropriate that one member suggests the other two put each other on ignore.

Actually, I am fairly certain that such a post would be trolling, and poster specific under the TOS. It certainly would be even more off-topic than said 'legal but low quality' discussion.

Would you desire some other poster to continually make such suggestions every time you got into a debate with someone around here?

No?

Well then.

 

[Hygro]

I think if I was getting into repetitious quote wars the same poster or two over and over again and it made others in the forum feel like I was cheapening discussion, I would want them to let me know. In fact I would prefer it come from regular posters than moderators.

But as evidenced by my 1000 posts/year habit I don't do that. I think this past year is the first year anyone remembers who I am since 2004 or 2005. Nobody rolls their eyes when I post saying "this again?" at the very least on the merit that I haven't posted enough for there to be an "again".

They do, however, roll there eyes and write tl;dr. And for good reason.

 

[Abaddon]

Thank you Mobboss for Exhibit A.

Multi-quoting, ad hominem haystack. I just can't be bothered to pick it apart.

 

[JollyRoger]

Given that all posters here are presumably equal, who are you to decide whats detrimental and what isnt?

Who are you to decide who can decide?

Is this your forum?

I think he pwns OT, not site feedback.

No?

No means no.

Let others post how they will, learn to control your own emotion in regards to it, and report what needs to be reported, and then move on.

I reported moveon.org to the government years ago. Nothing stops their trolling and flaming.

I find a post-style nazi to be just as distasteful as a grammer-nazi to be honest.

Why the distaste for nazis? Your left-wing bias is showing.

And whats wrong with that within reason? As long as it doesnt devolve into personal insults, flames or trolling, then big whoopee.

Yeah, it's like a gay pride parade - if you don't like it, don't watch. No need for posters to take it to pm, just like there is no need for gay paraders to keep it indoors.

And?

You are not concerned that dualing posters may be inspiring collectivist action?

Who are you to decide whats low-quality and what isnt? Did some one elect you post quality control officer while we werent looking?

It happened during a big dualing postfest that most people had stopped reading.

If you think the TOS has been breached, then report it. Those are the people duly appointed to monitor that sort of thing.

I have reported it, but no action has been taking unless the reportees somehow have internet access from GITMO.

By who's metric?

By those that measure things by yardstick - not those that want to eurotrash the way things are measured.

Actually, I am fairly certain that such a post would be trolling, and poster specific under the TOS. It certainly would be even more off-topic than said 'legal but low quality' discussion.

Given that all posters here are presumably equal, who are you to decide whats trolling and what isnt?

Would you desire some other poster to continually make such suggestions every time you got into a debate with someone around here?

Sure - a new target

No?

Are you even listening to me - I just said "Sure"

Well then.

More Petty and less pettiness would be useful around here.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Train me in your wise ways, master Jedi

 

[Mise]

This is why we need a post up/down-voting system. That way, we can signal our collective dislike at the multi-quoting, ad hominen haystacking that plagues certain threads, which may encourage people to stop doing it. It evidently won't discourage MobBoss, but it might discourage people from engaging with him if doing so earns you a fat stack of downvotes.

Can't we be given the tools to guide the discussion more effectively? There's clearly a need for something to be done about these discussions, regardless of what 1 user is saying here.

 

[MobBoss]

Thank you Mobboss for Exhibit A.

Multi-quoting, ad hominem haystack. I just can't be bothered to pick it apart.

Which is of course your right. But that doesnt alter the fact that I also have the right to post my style, my way, as long as it conforms to the TOS.

Who are you to decide who can decide?

Never said I was. I said thats a mods job.

I think he pwns OT, not site feedback.

What you think of him personally is irrelevant to the point I am making.

That is unless you simply want OT to be this big circle jerk of a clique, where those that dont fit your 'coolness' factor arent welcome.

Is that what you want?

Given that all posters here are presumably equal, who are you to decide whats trolling and what isnt?

Simply giving my read on the TOS. However, that is still up to mods to decide.

More Petty and less pettiness would be useful around here.

You mean like what you just posted? I agree.

This is why we need a post up/down-voting system. That way, we can signal our collective dislike at the multi-quoting, ad hominen haystacking that plagues certain threads, which may encourage people to stop doing it. It evidently won't discourage MobBoss, but it might discourage people from engaging with him if doing so earns you a fat stack of downvotes.

So you would turn OT into a place where only people you like hang out? Differing opinion not welcome.

Can't we be given the tools to guide the discussion more effectively? There's clearly a need for something to be done about these discussions, regardless of what 1 user is saying here.

Simply because I am merely 1 user doesnt mean what I am saying is incorrect.

 

[Zelig]

I recommend reporting the offending posts.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm sure people do - the offenders get warned to cool it by the mods, they ignore it, thread gets closed (and all other relevant debate gets stifled). I can't begin to count how many times I have seen that happen.

EDIT: Maybe we do need a "report to Perfection" button to deal with this sort of thing, just like I'm sure we could do with a Dachssymbol (like the Batsymbol) to summon Dachsman when there is a history emergency going down.

 

[Mise]

So you would turn OT into a place where only people you like hang out? Differing opinion not welcome.

You can continue to post however you like. The rating system wouldn't affect your ability to post, but it will hopefully affect your inclination to post things that the vast majority of other people don't like. If you don't care what other people think then /oh well /shrug

Simply because I am merely 1 user doesnt mean what I am saying is incorrect.

It certainly is unpopular.

I'm sure people do - the offenders get warned to cool it by the mods, they ignore it, thread gets closed (and all other relevant debate gets stifled). I can't begin to count how many times I have seen that happen.

100% agreed. The status quo is clearly unsatisfactory and needs to change.

 

[MobBoss]

You can continue to post however you like. The rating system wouldn't affect your ability to post, but it will hopefully affect your inclination to post things that the vast majority of other people don't like. If you don't care what other people think then /oh well /shrug

A vast majority of people around here already dont like me for my conservative/religious beliefs. So you would create a system where those in the minority are simply punished for having opposing view?

It certainly is unpopular.

So? Is OT a popularity contest? And if its within the TOS does it matter if its unpopular or not?

100% agreed. The status quo is clearly unsatisfactory and needs to change.

Isnt that what the new posting 'rules' are about?

I'm sure people do - the offenders get warned to cool it by the mods, they ignore it, thread gets closed (and all other relevant debate gets stifled). I can't begin to count how many times I have seen that happen.

The irony being that those that complain about this the most have also contributed to it/fed into it many times in the OT themselves.

Suggesting that change isnt really going to change anything as long as ones own perception is 'its cool when I/you/my social group do/does it, but terribly unpopular when someone I dont like does it.

Which is precisely the case here. I have seen every single one of the posters in this thread complaining about this issue do the very same exact thing they are complaining about, but yet its ok when they do it because they are in the majority here and they are justified when they do it.

Sorry, but I would prefer to stick with the Mods and TOS on this one. OT needs to be open to more than just a singular mindset.

 

[Mise]

A vast majority of people around here already dont like me for my conservative/religious beliefs. So you would create a system where those in the minority are simply punished for having opposing view?

Punished? Wherever did you get the idea that you would be punished?