Dealing with nuclear attacks and threats

[Mountain King]

I'm an intermediate player (King@MGE) who have had a hard time dealing with nuclear attacks and threats from AI opponents. I haven't played Civ2 in a long time and wanted to give it a try again because it's such a great game, but I'm daunted when thinking about nuclear attacks.

Should I yield immediately when threatened? The problem is that such attacks ruins some of my most important cities, reeling production and depleting the defenses. The cities are then open to invasion and it takes too long to organize engineers and mobilizing a defense.

How do you deal with such problems? I don't want to be a dictator, getting a bad reputation by using nukes myself, so that is no desirable solution.

 

[Ace]

The only way to deal with Nukes is to build the SDI defense in your cities before the AI gets nukes. The other alternative is to wipe out the AI before it gets nukes. Once the AI gets nukes, you can bet it will use them on you.

You can also try to use spies to destroy its production everytime it starts to build a nuke in a city, but that takes a lot of spies and if you miss just one...!

If you build at least one nuke yourself, it acts as a deterent to the AI for a short while, but, in the long run, the AI will decide to use its nukes. Build SDI defenses in evey city!

 

[Mountain King]

Thanks.

I just hate the fact that the AI is so damn aggressive. I think it's too unrealistic.

 

[Ace]

If your playing the "multplayer Gold" version of Civ2, you could look for a copy of the original Civ2 "classic or 2.42" version. It has a much less aggressive AI.

 

[Sub]

Best thing to do in my oppinion is just to make sure the manhatten project doesn't get built. If an ai happens to start building it, find which city its building it in, get a transport, load a spy up and sabatoge the production. Thats what I do.

 

[ElephantU]

If your playing the "multplayer Gold" version of Civ2, you could look for a copy of the original Civ2 "classic or 2.42" version. It has a much less aggressive AI.

It may be nit-picking, but I'd change "less aggressive" to "more rational" for the AI attitudes in Classic/2.42. The design team increased the hostility in versions after that (MPG, FW, ToT) which often means a small, dependent AI civ acts suicidally hostile toward a larger human player who has gifted them often and never stabbed them in the back. The goal may have been to make the AI more of a challenge, but I find it just makes it easier to get war declared and wipe them out, even in a Democracy.

 

[Ace]

It may be nit-picking, but I'd change "less aggressive" to "more rational" for the AI attitudes in Classic/2.42. The design team increased the hostility in versions after that (MPG, FW, ToT) which often means a small, dependent AI civ acts suicidally hostile toward a larger human player who has gifted them often and never stabbed them in the back. The goal may have been to make the AI more of a challenge, but I find it just makes it easier to get war declared and wipe them out, even in a Democracy.

Not really nit-picking...more like a good idea.

As to the "suicidally hostile attitude" of the little civ, thats a given in MPG! I have had large civs with tanks and howies and been attacked by the Greeks with one city and one whole warrior (in MPG)! I have also noted that in MPG, it is impossible to form strategic alliances with any civ after about AD 1. Even if they are worshipful, they still will not ally with you.

IMHO, playing classic instead of Gold is worth at least 3,000 to 10,000 coins over the course of a game!! I.e., the amount you can beg, demand or get gifts from your allies. The ideal way to play is to start your game in classic and when you reach the point where you no longer need/want allies and are at war with them (with the intent to wipe them out), transfer your save game to your Gold folder and finish the game in Gold. That way one can have the best of both worlds!

 

[Sub]

They only act like that when your the strongest Civ. If your not, you'll get along fine.. The second you become the strongest though, they'll backstab you at every chance they get.

 

[Ace]

ahhh, No! In Gold, the AI hates you, period. After AD 1, your toast. You can build your rating with a civ up to Enthusiastic and the next turn it will be back to Hostile! You can be a very weak civ and this still happens. Your rating does not have to be supreme for the AI to hate you. It will do so even if your power is pathetic. Its kind of like the machines in the Terminator movies...they flat out hate humans and do everything they can to destroy them.

 

[gealai]

ahhh, No! In Gold, the AI hates you, period. After AD 1, your toast. You can build your rating with a civ up to Enthusiastic and the next turn it will be back to Hostile! You can be a very weak civ and this still happens. Your rating does not have to be supreme for the AI to hate you. It will do so even if your power is pathetic. Its kind of like the machines in the Terminator movies...they flat out hate humans and do everything they can to destroy them.

I liked that comparison Ace; the AI does remind you of those human-hating Terminator robots. In one of the last games of Civilization 2 I played I was allied with the Indians for thousands of years until they suddenly cancelled the alliance. The next turn they sent a diplomat into one of my cities and destroyed my granary for no reason whatsoever.This led to a war in which the Indians ended up losing (I couldn't conquer their cities because they were too heavily fortrified so I just used Crusaders and Dragoons to pillage all their irrigation until they asked for peace again).
I am not sure if I have the Gold version of Civ 2 or the original; how can you tell?.

 

[ElephantU]

A fundamental difference is that Classic can be played without the CD, while Gold cannot. Specifically, though, from the top menu bar select Game - Game Options and your game version will be listed at the top of the frame.

 

[BlackAdder60]

... The ideal way to play is to start your game in classic and when you reach the point where you no longer need/want allies and are at war with them (with the intent to wipe them out), transfer your save game to your Gold folder and finish the game in Gold. That way one can have the best of both worlds!

In that case why not just activate cheat mode? Thats what it is.

But I like the *tactic* ( as oposed to *cheat*) sugested above to use spies to sabotage the AI:s manhattan project. I'll remember that!

 

[DavidBedford]

Last night, an AI launched a nuclear missile at me for the first time ever - I was rather surprised, and did have to wonder how the Mongols knew that this was one of only two of my cities without an SDI Defence - no spies had been in the vicinity. Particularly annoying as it was a 'sneak attack'. I'd never considered sabotaging the production of the Manhattan Project - in this case, four of the other five empires were all working on it at the same time, so it would have been a major job to sabotage all of them!

David

David

 

[Ace]

Remember, the AI is "all knowing"...! It always knows which of your cities has SDI. It also cheats in that it ignores "range" and can launch a nuke from anywhere against your city of choice.

 

[EquinoxOmega]

@Ace: in my CIV(Fantastic Worlds) the AI doesn't know were I have my SDI and it also doesn't learn it by trying. When the AI attacs my with nukes on an SDI-city it wasted nearly all of its nukes there.

 

[RedWolf]

@Ace: in my CIV(Fantastic Worlds) the AI doesn't know were I have my SDI and it also doesn't learn it by trying. When the AI attacs my with nukes on an SDI-city it wasted nearly all of its nukes there.

Yes I agree - I recently played a game in which the spanish nuked one city in particular every 10 turns or so... sometimes multiple nukes per turn - only to have every one defeated by the SDI. Idiots.

It's interesting though - some AI's are much more likely then others to nuke you it seems.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

@Ace: in my CIV(Fantastic Worlds) the AI doesn't know were I have my SDI and it also doesn't learn it by trying. When the AI attacs my with nukes on an SDI-city it wasted nearly all of its nukes there.

Are you sure the city they attacked had an SDI in it?

An SDI covers three squares out from any city. Thus, if a city overlaps another city the second city is protected. The AI has never attacked a city that has an SDI in it directly to my knowledge, but does not recognize those cities that are protected by another cities SDI.

Building your cities as such and having one protect another is sometimes referred to as a 'nuclear sponge' since, as you said, the AI is willing to throw every nuke they have at the city that does not have its own SDI, but is protected by another city.

Or, perhaps FW is just differnet from Classic or MPG.

 

[RedWolf]

Are you sure the city they attacked had an SDI in it?

An SDI covers three squares out from any city. Thus, if a city overlaps another city the second city is protected. The AI has never attacked a city that has an SDI in it directly to my knowledge, but does not recognize those cities that are protected by another cities SDI.

Building your cities as such and having one protect another is sometimes referred to as a 'nuclear sponge' since, as you said, the AI is willing to throw every nuke they have at the city that does not have its own SDI, but is protected by another city.

Or, perhaps FW is just differnet from Classic or MPG.

You got me thinking so I fired up my saved game (MPG) - as this happened to me last night - 30 minutes or so before my above post.

I watched the AI smash multiple nukes into my city only to have it be defated by the SDI - often more then once per turn.

It was either "Susa" or "Persepolis" (both have SDIs now but as mentioned the timing could be off as to when they were built). But regardless of this, neither city is overlapped by another city so it must have been the city's OWN SDI that was doing the defending.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

You got me thinking so I fired up my saved game (MPG) - as this happened to me last night - 30 minutes or so before my above post.

I watched the AI smash multiple nukes into my city only to have it be defated by the SDI - often more then once per turn.

It was either "Susa" or "Persepolis" (both have SDIs now but as mentioned the timing could be off as to when they were built). But regardless of this, neither city is overlapped by another city so it must have been the city's OWN SDI that was doing the defending.

The reach of SDI is 3 squares out in all directions. It is larger than the radius of the city itself. In your picture, Susa and Persepolis are exactly 3 squares apart, so an SDI in one would cover the other city.

 

[MurphTangClan]

I know it is the only way to prevent nukes, but what a pain it is making sure that every city has an SDI, especially in the middle of a space race or something. Especially if you have a huge civ.