Oppenheimer and DoC

[Tigranes]

The state of nuclear affairs in DoC is woefully unrealistic and outdated. This year marks 10th year of DoC development, during which every aspect of the vanila game has been changed except for an unimaginative Firaxis attempt to simulate MAD -- once one country creates a Manhattan project it enables nuclear attacks for all the players. I understand that gameplay will trump realism at any day of the week, but when the very opposite is true one cannot be satisfied with such a simple solution. Plus it is bad for game play, given that human player will prioritize nuclear bombers more than AI. In my current game #1 country USA attacks my peaceful Canada (with whom they have a defencive pact and Pleased relations). They are ahead in techs and finished Ballistic Missile but don't have a single Nuclear Bomber even! Why should I be able to automatically build nukes? Well, because it was an easy solution 20 years ago when Civ4 came around and this was inherited by DoC up to this date.

Instead, we need a more realistic, elegant and fun solution:

1. Every civ must complete their Manhattan Project to enable nuclear attack ability for that civ.
2. Manhattan Project can be only built in the cities with Settled Great Scientist or Great Spy, but multiple such cities of the same civ can contribute to the pool of the project.
3. First civ to complete Manhattan Project makes it available for civ's worst enemy and any defensive pact partner only (given that tech requirements are met). The costs get halved, as in Ballistic Missile and First Satellite.
4. UN leaders give priority to Nuclear non-proliferation treaty before any votes on civic changes.
5. Make AI more willing to build nuclear weapons.
6. Enable some sort of nuclear diplomacy -- Give up nuclear program for XYZ benefits in diplo screen trade offer.
7. Nuclear Triad -- Planes, IBCM, Submarines. Currently game has the first 2, but our Nuclear Submarines (which are powered by nuclear reactor) can only carry civilians. The entire idea of nuclear deterrence is that one cannot nuke all the IBCM silos and nuclear air force bases with a first strike impunity. Enemy Navy's ballistic missile submarines, often referred to as "boomers," serve as an undetectable launch platform for intercontinental missiles and they will retaliate. Enable Nuclear Submarines to carry both types of missiles and make them carry IBCMs which they can load in port cities that produced them.

 

[Hickman888]

I’ve always thought that every civilization should have to complete their own “Manhattan Project”, in order to build nukes themselves. And the idea of automatically sharing that knowledge with any Defensive Pact member is also a good idea.

The only idea you listed that I’m not too sure about is requiring a settled Great Scientist/Spy to build Manhattan Project. I can already envision some frustrating scenario where you are frantically trying to get a Great Scientist, and just coming up unlucky everytime. I think a better solution would be to allow Great Scientists to help rush production of the Manhattan Project, similar to how Great Engineers can rush wonders. And allow spies to steal Manhattan Project access, as an expensive spy mission.

And you are correct on #7, it would be nice to bring back the Tactical Nuke unit from BtS.

 

[Tigranes]

I was thinking about AQ Khan, among others. If you just read about his black market for nuclear secrets, it's kinda hard to call him just a Great Scientist or Great Spy.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2005/09/07/a.-q.-khan-nuclear-chronology-pub-17420

The general idea is that to be successful with nuclear technology you must be lead either by great science or great intelligence. Some one must be the father of your nuclear program.

 

[AOS9001]

While we're talking about overhauling the nuclear weapons, can we talk about how awful the global warming mechanic is? I was in elementary school when this game came out 20 years ago, and even little me knew that nuclear weapons wouldn't cause global warming. I know this was something of a tradition in Civ games, but DOC has changed everything else, why not this? A real global warming mechanic would expand deserts from the arid zones and expand temperate zones into the Arctic/Antarctic zones. Not that global warming (if we should even call it that, knowing what we know now) should be tied to nuclear weapons at all, it should be tied to the amount of coming from buildings in the industrial/global/digital era, if you ask me.

Anyways, submarine implementation in Civ IV sucks too. No nuclear missile subs, the nuclear submarine can only attack conventionally, and only the conventionally-powered WWII submarine can carry missiles. Naval warfare in general after the sailing age is kind of a joke, actually. I'd love a total overhaul but it's a low, low priority.

 

[GuitarDemon]

I was thinking about this the other day. Nukes are kind of funny in civ4 and DOC by extension. I've seen the AI nuke independents with their free bomber and only once or twice seen them nuke another civ.

To add to your suggestion, I think Manhattan should get 50% when discovered by another civ too.

Another idea I had was what if we could set ICBMs to auto attack if your country (or vassal/defense pact partners) is nuked?? Sort of like how ships can be set up to auto protect coast.

Vice versa it could make a human player think twice about getting nuke happy if the AI has nukes ready to counter attack once we press the big red button

 

[Hickman888]

I'm not even saying that this feature belongs in this mod, but I still thought it worth mentioning: In the game Humankind, nukes that are launched take a full turn to hit their target. Meaning there is a solid turn where everybody sees an ICBM get launched, they have no idea its intended target, and they may react accordingly. It could add a lot of nail-biting suspense to the Mutually Assured Destruction game.

 

[Publicola]

Oh man I like that idea. I'd very much like to see this feature in DOC.

 

[Derdan]

I was thinking about this the other day. Nukes are kind of funny in civ4 and DOC by extension. I've seen the AI nuke independents with their free bomber and only once or twice seen them nuke another civ.

To add to your suggestion, I think Manhattan should get 50% when discovered by another civ too.

Another idea I had was what if we could set ICBMs to auto attack if your country (or vassal/defense pact partners) is nuked?? Sort of like how ships can be set up to auto protect coast.

Vice versa it could make a human player think twice about getting nuke happy if the AI has nukes ready to counter attack once we press the big red button

Yeah I would like if the AI were completely prohibited from nuking Independent cities.

 

[freethink]

I'm not even saying that this feature belongs in this mod, but I still thought it worth mentioning: In the game Humankind, nukes that are launched take a full turn to hit their target. Meaning there is a solid turn where everybody sees an ICBM get launched, they have no idea its intended target, and they may react accordingly. It could add a lot of nail-biting suspense to the Mutually Assured Destruction game.

This needs in the game, it would be great if could generate a text announcement. If programming allowed it, the game would ask if you also want to make a launch before the impacts hit, but if you do you will get an automatic diplomatic penalty with everyone (an additional one) for striking before the targets of the original launch are hit.

 

[brett0007]

Not sure if its possible but the AI should be more reluctant to attack other civs with nuclear capability to better simulate "cold war" situations where they more focus on proxy wars and influence.