Dealing with revolution.

[hifcio]

Hello!

Couple days ago, I decided to switch up my difficulty level to monarch. Everything was fine untill I've build my second city! It has almost immediately started to revolt. It was very early in game, so I could,t switch to any other civic (I didn't have any invented yet). I had no money so bribing rebels was also impossible. My question is, how you can prevent revolution and deal with revolting cities. I've searched this forum but i couldn't fing any straight answer.

 

[DRJ]

1. connect your second city with capital
2. second city should only be 3 squares away from capital, you shouldn't build it too early - I let my capital often grow to size 3 and build work boats or a worker for farms etc. before I create a settler.
3. put 3-4 units as garrison in the second city, this reduces revolutionary sentiments.
4. when a revolution starts, make sure the enemy can't fortify on some forest/hills+forrest aside the city - trying to kill them there can mean heavy losses - a few additional troops you preventively put there can mean the revolutionaries start on grassland/hills where they then can be surrounded and killed faster because of the better odds.
5. if you can't avoid that the revoultionaries did fortify on forrests/hills+forrests don't waste you troops to kill them. The revoultionaries will get reinforcements from time to time and at a certain point they will attack, finally - even at bad odds for them as they try to outnumber you. Be prepared and maybe put a few more troops in the city.

Once you know how revolutions work you can get free workers (a killed settler of the revolutionaries provides a captured worker) and free xp of it + you train your tactical abilities for a stack of death of a strong AI when it comes to attack you later in the game.

Placement of troops is critical. Control the terrain, build forts (with fixed borders [custom game option in AND] they even give culture now).

Try to kill the revolutionaries in the very turn after they imminate; you can leave some elite troops for that outside the city so they don't get damaged by the revolt.

 

[Afforess]

If you are using A New Dawn, the promotions that reduce the chance of Revolting are worth gaining. Sticking a GG with the 100% revolt protection in an unruly city will pretty much qualm any rebellions.

 

[rychan]

Wow, I just tried this mod for the first time, on Monarch (as a long time Civ4 BTS monarch player). What a terrible experience. I had 3 cities at about 1000BC, which is a very slow development, and both of my new cities kept revolting regardless of ludicrous size garrisons, the most stable civics, and bribes. The cities spawned rebels and got captured, because the rebels had fully upgraded axes while the cities were defended with spears. I got one city back, but the rebellions didn't stop. The other city had run-away construction of axemen, maybe one a turn, even though the city had no copper. It's bad enough to have your city break away, it's worse when it gets the Monarch AI cheats to outrun your attempts to take it back. I've got to say this feels like really poor game design to me. Why is this a fun mechanic? Oh well, there are other mods to enjoy.

 

[Afforess]

Wow, I just tried this mod for the first time, on Monarch (as a long time Civ4 BTS monarch player). What a terrible experience. I had 3 cities at about 1000BC, which is a very slow development, and both of my new cities kept revolting regardless of ludicrous size garrisons, the most stable civics, and bribes. The cities spawned rebels and got captured, because the rebels had fully upgraded axes while the cities were defended with spears. I got one city back, but the rebellions didn't stop. The other city had run-away construction of axemen, maybe one a turn, even though the city had no copper. It's bad enough to have your city break away, it's worse when it gets the Monarch AI cheats to outrun your attempts to take it back. I've got to say this feels like really poor game design to me. Why is this a fun mechanic? Oh well, there are other mods to enjoy.

I can't tell if you were playing A New Dawn or not, but I increased the effects of garrisons, so that they have a much more influential effect on holding cities. However, if you dislike the concept of Revolutions, it can be turned off when setting up maps. No need to ditch this mod!

 

[Killtech]

never though revolutions were even possible so early in the game. but as i just watch the AI autoplay i saw how it's doable. i personally never had any problems with revolutions mod and thought it was far too weak. actually playing the game at high difficulties forces you to play different and thus you will never experience any revolts. basically there are two things you can do wrong for this problem to occur:

1. too early expansion. take your time and let your city grow before you build your first settler. develop your starting cities to a reasonable level before any further expansion.

2. neglected economy. you need to upgrade your cities with many buildings to ensure a stable empire. neither military nor expansion is as important as economy in this mod. first you will have to see to let your cities grow to a level where they yield enough . so buildings that give you bonuses to food or production are key. commerce buildings are the next important as they will give you enough commerce to sustain a healthy research rate and prevent 'financial trouble' which seems to be the main reason for revolutions somehow. next thing you should watch is culture. it helps to reduce revolutionary tendencies. happiness can help too.

@Afforess:
now i start to realize why revolutions mod is so disliked. and indeed i understand now why people say it's too powerful.

 

[Afforess]

@Afforess:
now i start to realize why revolutions mod is so disliked. and indeed i understand now why people say it's too powerful.

I know. The real problem is that once a revolution spins out of control, there is no way to regain control. It's a lost cause.

I've tried to make Garrisons much more effective at holding cities, and it has worked to some degree. If you have a rebellious city, stick a GG with lots of troops in that city. With AND, it will hold all but the worst cities.

 

[Killtech]

that is a part of it. but i really do not see a reason why revolutions should harass small empires that early when you still have to deal with barbs a lot. i can really understand how people are annoyed with that. imho i'd cut that out completely.

but at the other hand revolutions are just too weak for highly developed empires that mostly have not much to do except clicking through what cities should produce next. some revolutionary entertainment that could really cause some trouble would add a lot of fun.

all in all i think rev-mod should decrease all revolutionary penalties except from 'foreign culture' and 'distance to capital' so revolutions are a thing for large empires only. and of course boost the revolts effects.

 

[Arakhor]

If I am so "lucky" as to get more than one holy city, then I am royally stuffed as my Rev index suddenly piles through the floor in that city, let alone any other issues that may have been there!

 

[Traks]

I would say it is reasonable.
Look how every year in Jerusalem all those christians fight and insult each other.
But yes, other things are not reasonable in revolution mod.
I have lots of good modifiers, one bad - result is "Worsening". Meh.

 

[Nefelia]

If I am so "lucky" as to get more than one holy city, then I am royally stuffed as my Rev index suddenly piles through the floor in that city, let alone any other issues that may have been there!

If the rest of your empire is relatively stable, the occaisional bribe should take care of your second holy city.

 

[Tapok]

that is a part of it. but i really do not see a reason why revolutions should harass small empires that early when you still have to deal with barbs a lot. i can really understand how people are annoyed with that. imho i'd cut that out completely.

but at the other hand revolutions are just too weak for highly developed empires that mostly have not much to do except clicking through what cities should produce next. some revolutionary entertainment that could really cause some trouble would add a lot of fun.

all in all i think rev-mod should decrease all revolutionary penalties except from 'foreign culture' and 'distance to capital' so revolutions are a thing for large empires only. and of course boost the revolts effects.

This, this, and also this.

 

[JosEPh_II]

that is a part of it. but i really do not see a reason why revolutions should harass small empires that early when you still have to deal with barbs a lot. i can really understand how people are annoyed with that. imho i'd cut that out completely.

but at the other hand revolutions are just too weak for highly developed empires that mostly have not much to do except clicking through what cities should produce next. some revolutionary entertainment that could really cause some trouble would add a lot of fun.

all in all i think rev-mod should decrease all revolutionary penalties except from 'foreign culture' and 'distance to capital' so revolutions are a thing for large empires only. and of course boost the revolts effects.

While we disagreed on many things killtech, on this you have nailed it. To this day I still cannot stand to use revolutions. In any Mod that makes it it's core I have to bypass that Mod, no matter the quality of the rest of that mod.

I just wish Afforess had kept it out of AND.

JosEPh