Dear Sid

[TheBarnacle]

I am sick of people trashing this game. I had problems at first - then I tweaked the options and things ran fine. I have an older machine - I can't expect torun things at the high end like I did when my computer was new.
If tweaking doesnt work then do a simple upgrade - if your computer is top of the line I bet the games runs perfectly - try getting newer drivers. try tweaking your graphics card. If you were a true civ fan you would be working on your computer, nit trashing the game, the company and the genius behind it. It sounds to me like you guys were prepared to be disappointed and so were. I was determined to play this game and I perservered.

this is the kind of post i find curious. if you're not having problems anymore, why come here to antagonize those of us who are? obviously, most of us reasonably expected to have the game working out of the box. the 'play' disc isn't actually the play disc? huh, they must've missed that, no biggie. as long as it plays.

and then it doesn't play. not properly. so we check our drivers, our settings, our background apps, and so on. only to find, it still doesn't run. now, perhaps your expectations for a buying a new car are that it runs, sort of. but only after you tweak the carb and check the injector and get some fuel additive and adjust the intake valve. but me? i like to think the new product i buy runs. if you tell me i need to update drivers...ok. a fair and reasonable demand. but to have to "tweak my card" and "work on my computer" to get a brand new product to run, and only then maybe, just isn't a reasonable expectation to have for a consumer.

as for posting the "specific problems" and machine specs....mine are similar/same to many of those already posted. the offered suggestions thus far seem questionable and really come with the "these might work and you still may have other issues" qualifier. i have other things to do than spend 24 more hours trying to get the game to run. if they put out a 'fix' someday, hopefully it'll solve my issues. but in the meantime, i bought the game for entertainment, and fortunately there are loads of other things i can spend my time/$ on to get that. perhaps my desire for instant gratification doomed me this time or else i'd still have $50 to spend on something else.

 

[BleckLord]

There are other things that I know about. I have an associate degree in computer programming, although the degree is a little old, Matlab is my specialty, and I have a B.S. in mathematics.

...

Please understand this: I would never, and I mean never, release a set of eyewear that was below specifications and not in perfect operating order. Please understand this further: There are thousands of ways to make a pair of glasses wrong and only one way to make it right and when it is wrong it must be remade until it is right before releasing to a client. It's called ethics.
...

WOOT Matlab!! WOOT ethics!!

I use Matlab for designing smart patch antena arrays. Do you use a countour plot to visualize the lens? I think that would be cool, I've used the countour plot for 3D antena patterns, very cool.

I really like your point about not being a mechanic, so true. I wish that people would equate software with other products. Quality controll is a science. It really is. There are documented procedures for controlling quality that work; they were perfected by the Japanese after WW2.

Six sigma, process control, 0 dppm. There is no excuse for not having quality control. The buck has to stop somewhere (Firaxis, 2k, Sid,...)

 

[Libertarian]

That was completely ********. People shouldn't have to be "technically orientated" to buy a finished, packaged game, install it and play it problem free.

Amen!

Computer hardware discussions make my eyes glaze over. I have no idea what anyone is talking about. I am a computer user, not a computer builder. One thing I like to use is games. Why I should have to dig into the bowels of my machine just to play makes no more sense than if I had to be an expert mechanic to drive my car.

I've looked at everything I've seen people say to look at, including the dxdiag thing. As far as I can tell, I don't even have a video card. And yet I play Civ III all the time. I called my PC vendor, and he showed me how to set my BIOS for 64 meg of video, and he told me that my video is "onboard". So, I came here asking whether anyone else was using "onboard" video, and if so, were they having problems.

The first response? Someone telling me to search. Gah. Good thing it wasn't real life, or there would have been an assault charge against me. Search my ass. I've been searching for the past three days. Putting "onboard" in the search engine brings up questions about ship strategy. I'm so clueless about all this that at this point, I don't even know what questions to ask.

Anyway, I just wanted to sign in and vent for a bit. Apparently, the powers that be have decided to market solely to computer techs. Since I really can't get an answer (or even figure out how to ask the question), I guess I'll just cancel our order from Amazon which, by the way, hasn't shipped yet.

For those of you who are having no problems, good on you. But please don't take that as license to trash other people who are still having problems. Nothing is worse than an ex-complainer, except for an ex-complainer who taunts the people he left behind.

 

[WildWeazel]

That is good to know. What nicks do they go by? They should be well known then.

They use the Firaxis logo as their avatars.
Trip, Soren, and Mike B are the ones I know of.

 

[DeathInABottle]

Glad to see a lot of you are using the automobile lemon analogy.

Mods: Can you set up a poll on the front page asking how many people are satisfied with their purchase? That would be the best location for a poll, since even people who aren't visiting the Tech Support forum would see it. Or could you maybe do a set of polls for people with different set ups - especially people with laptops? I think that would be illuminating.

Aside: I wonder what it is about computer gaming culture that routinely allows for mediocre game releases. I mean, it's not like this problem is confined to Civ IV; just about everything released these days requires extensive patching for simple playability. I understand that there are a huge number of different software and hardware compatibility issues that a developer has to grapple with, but if that's the case - if the developer is only sure that the game will work on a few select systems - then the requirements listed should be explicit on that point. Like:

"Civ IV will support these operating systems and these graphic cards. It may support other configurations, and these will be added to our support page as they are confirmed. Until then, caveat emptor.

"Oh, also, it won't even load on a laptop. Sorry about that."

 

[Tanstaafl]

Well, "Pfft" right back at you!

If Civ III did ship with as many or same type problems you would expect the manufacturers to be a little better at making this game before shipping it out. If a patch was issued for Civ III at a superfast rate it begs the question why wasn't one done for Civ IV?

I have posted, as hundreds of others, on the technical postings with our equipment and problems encountered. This forum is for belly aching and I think it isn't unwarranted to complain when so many and such varied problems arise from a supposedly sophisticated product.

If you all who complain about us complainers would just go away and let us do our thing then you wouldn't have to be whining about Sid's sainthood being tarnished by us heretics.

 

[Novaya Havoc]

And by the way, moderator, these so-called trolls have each spent a minimum of $50 to enjoy a PC game and they are frustrated because it won't work and especially because they are being ignored by the Firaxis sponsored tech support listed on their booklet.

Right on, brother.

If someone complains about the product and is angry, they're "trolling" or "only .2% of Civ gamers" -- but people who will post vapid praise or spam threads on different grounds are just fine.

I understand that rabid criticism is annoying, but at the same time firewalling or stonewalling the developers/publisher -- or any authority figure in any situation -- doesn't cure the dissent. There is a lot of that occurring on these fan forums, though, and I'm quite surprised at the number of people who would rather try to "shut out" the complaints rather than correct them.

Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, and forcing someone to ignore their problems is only going to exacerbate the dissent.

C'est la vie.

 

[Novotny]

Hi, I haven't posted here in oo I really don't know how long, few years.

I'd like to respond if I may to some points made throughout.

Firstly Ape Drape is not using the latest WHQL drivers; the 77.77's have been out for some time. 81.85's are the latest WHQL'd though there have been many other minor updates in between.

Secondly, Optical Jim I do sympathise with your problem. But I'd also like you to consider the possibility that operating systems degrade over time, and that peroidically it does become necessary to reinstall your operating system. Given that you both upgraded your graphics card and also paid someone to put it in I'm supposing that your computer is at least 3 years maybe 4 old, and that you have never reinstalled the operating system. Its quite likely - and please, this not a jibe - that your system is not entirely error-free.

Thirdly, as touched upon by others people just don't really get the complexity of producing software to work on so many different combinations of hardware and software and also the vastly different ways in which this software is used - its a mind-bogglingly large combination and frankly its not possible to produce software that will perfectly on everything. Well, if Firaxis where given every single combination under the sun ready built with freshly installed up-to-date os and drivers andthat has not been used by a human then they could no doubt, given enough time, produce it working perfectly for everyone. When? maybe next decade. Wanna wait?

So its necessary to draw inferences, as its clearly impossible to test everything. If it works on this and it works on that, well it should work on this combination too. And yet still they must rely on the end-user not to have changed something or made a mistake at some point or installed something that throws up a conflict that could not be reasonably forseen.

I sneaked that in there, did you notice? I suggested that perhaps our systems may not be perfect despite whatever drivers we think we've put in correctly etc. We all must consider that also perhaps we've made errors in the way we use our systems at some point; I have witnessed enough friends I would regard as fairly expert at their work make a minor mistake/error whilst talking such as delete an important file by mistake to realise I must do it sometimes too - you can create problems in your everyday useage of your pc that you don't realise at the time and maybe don't cause a headache at the time - but do later. Maybe now, with some people's civ 4.

Software developers test as much as they can, Publishers publish as soon as they can. Crucial difference. At some point, they've got to draw a line and say 'release now', though have slightly different criteria giving them their green lights. Usually a publisher is shouting Go! and the dev is saying 'not yet! not yet!' Market forces mostly prevail, unless you're Id software and answer to no-one.

I get bugs that I haven't really seen reported yet - and they are fixed by alt-tabbing. Basically mouse losed focus as such so I don't get mouse-overs such as tips etc, and I get the gfx corruption whe you zoom out. Both fix with an alt-tab out and in again. Hopefully, Firaxis can isolate it. Then again, could be my system, something stealing/ trying to steal focus. I remain open-minded, and impressed with the title. Have crashed out to desktop a few times, especially in endgame and do think a memory leak is occuring but hey, my blood pressure remains fine.

Another point on how many machines this is supposed to work on. Consider say Quake 4, another recent release. The min required rig for this game maens the machine it will be played on must be pretty new, or recently upgraded - either way, we're looking at mostly fresh operating systems. Not so with Civ 4 - I'd say quite the opposite. Must be a bloody nitemare.

 

[Hermes]

I am having the same problems that most people are having with the ATI video cards. I have done what the support site said to do, as well as what other people have said on this and other websites. Still getting the renderer error.

I have a P4 2.4ghz, 512mb RAM, ATI Radeon 9600 256mb Video card, Windows 2000 Pro.

ALL drivers, and the operating system have been updated to the latest drivers and versions. Every other game I have are working fine.

Frankly I am really dissappointed with this game. I have been a loyal Civ player since the beginning, and this really turns my stomach.

Its sad that my kids system with a GeForce 4 mx440 with 64mb of ram is running the game just fine.

I see so many people with my same video card that are working fine. Could it be the OS? They dont have and Unpak program for Win 2k as of yet. Meanwhile, I went back to WoW anad will probably send my Civ 4 game back if this doesnt get fixed VERY SOON.

Ok, my rant is done, I feel better.....Now back to WoW!

Have fun with your game Sid!

I had the same problem as you had - and I have the same graphic card - only the unpak fix solved it.... So I hope you will be patient 'till they make a unpak utility for win 2000 - the game is worth it.....

 

[Paccali]

I'm tired of this "too many combinations of hardware" lameass apologist attitude. If Blizzard, Valve, EA, and Id can release games that work amazingly well on most (if not all) of the systems represented in this forum, Firaxis can too. My rig is brand new, and able to run Doom III, WoW, Half Life 2, et. al. at 30 to 60 fps, this game should run around there too.

Don't tell me "ooh, its so hard to make a game for every computer." Thats a bunch of nonsense. This game has serious bugs, and why Novotny and others are apologizing for Firaxis, I can't tell. My computer is up-to-date, high-ended, and working perfectly. Don't tell me that its my fault, that is a load of crap.

Firaxis released a game, in its beta stage at best, and they need to rectify it, instead of hanging up on me when I call tech-support, and not responding to emails.

 

[Hackmeat]

Just a quick reply here since I do not want to get into some flame war...

You have the right hardware and the game. Still get CTD's?

Change you drivers...Latest drivers (even though I have heard this enough on this forum) usually is NOT going to fix you problem. Keep rolling your drivers back until it works. (Video Drivers). I am not going to say I am god and this *will* work, but I can tell you it works most of the time.

 

[GKTemujin]

This is totally unfair. We deserve better than this. We payed 50 dollars for what????? And to all those people who aren't against blaming Sid, Firaxis, and Take 2 ur OK with it because u can actually play the game but I bet that if you were in my shoes you would have thought differently. You don't know the frustation and stress that we've been going through trying to figure out a way to play. I believe that if you get paid to make games especially a BIG game like Civilization IV which has a good reputation you should do your job. I'm sure that if we all knew that this was going to happen then nobody, not even the people that are running the game succesfully, would have bought it.

 

[GertFroebe]

I'm tired of this "too many combinations of hardware" lameass apologist attitude. If Blizzard, Valve, EA, and Id can release games that work amazingly well on most (if not all) of the systems represented in this forum, Firaxis can too. My rig is brand new, and able to run Doom III, WoW, Half Life 2, et. al. at 30 to 60 fps, this game should run around there too.

Don't tell me "ooh, its so hard to make a game for every computer." Thats a bunch of nonsense. This game has serious bugs, and why Novotny and others are apologizing for Firaxis, I can't tell. My computer is up-to-date, high-ended, and working perfectly. Don't tell me that its my fault, that is a load of crap.

Firaxis released a game, in its beta stage at best, and they need to rectify it, instead of hanging up on me when I call tech-support, and not responding to emails.

I totally agree

 

[Red Door]

Dear Sid,

Thank You for making me pay $50 for this piece-of-crap game that does not work. I really appreciate how I will now have to pay $90 for a GRAPHIC CARD because you design your games for extremely nice computers. I hope you will continue to play your games in your mansion.

Your once-loyal Civ Fan,
AlCosta15.

 

[Efexeye]

Dear Sid,

Thank You for making me pay $50 for this piece-of-crap game that does not work. I really appreciate how I will now have to pay $90 for a GRAPHIC CARD because you design your games for extremely nice computers. I hope you will continue to play your games in your mansion.

Your once-loyal Civ Fan,
AlCosta15.

Ok. I'm sorry. This post is totally ridiculous. I ask you, did you read the box specs before you bought the game? Was your video card equivalent to or better than those specs?

Because if not, you have NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.

However, I do. I bought the game KNOWING that I did not have 512 megs of RAM, and, according to the box, not NEEDING 512 megs of RAM.

Wait, what's that in the ReadMe? I have to have 512 megs of RAM if I'm running Windows XP?

WHAT?!?!?

See, my gripe is legitimate. You are simply complaining about the fact that you neglected to check the specs. I'm complaining (a little- the game still basically works fine) because the box was either misprinted, or the specs changed after the box was printed. I have a good reason- you're just pissed because you acted foolishly.

 

[Libertarian]

How can a game require an almost brand new machine to run unless the developers have spent less than a week or two writing it?

 

[opticaljim]

I'm supposing that your computer is at least 3 years maybe 4 old, and that you have never reinstalled the operating system. Its quite likely - and please, this not a jibe - that your system is not entirely error-free.

How about this?

Two weeks before I knew that Civ IV was being released I arranged for someone to pick up my system and "clean" it, that is, neutraize any bugs, get rid of unnesessary programs and install the new 2005 version of Norton Antivirus. when he delivered my computer back to me he used the Norton to show me that the system was clean. He went through a list of programs (some of which I thought I had deleted months ago) that he got rid of. He also installed a new drive CD-Rom drive for me because I had felt that it was skipping. I also had him install an extra 512 MB of RAM to bring it up to 1024MB.

For several days after I picked up my first copy of Civ IV I have tried everything to get it working properly. I'm not going to go over it all now but I can tell you that I changed out the video card from a 64MB to a 128MB and changed the driver from a Nvidia MX420 to a MX4000.

Again, the recomended specifications call for a 128 MB Video card w/directX 8 support (pixel and vertex shaders).

According to the specifications on the box that contained my new graphic card the specifications are as follows:

GPU: NVIDIA GeForce MX 4000

Bus Type: AGP

Memory: 128 MB DDR

Core Clock: 275 MHz

API Support: Microsoft DirectX, OpenGL for Microsoft Windows

Connectors: VGA, S-Video Out

Triangles/Sec: 31 million

It is listed as AGP 8X/4X/2X compatible,

Up to 4 pixels per clock rendering engine.

So what am I missing?

 

[Novotny]

Well, that's a direct x 7 card without pixel shaders. Though people have reported no problems with similar cards, ie the mx400.

 

[Neomega]

Rude tech support? Look at who they were talking to.

 

[itsmekirill]

I gather from these threads that most, not all, but most of the people having significant issues with the game are using either integrated graphics or very old GPU's like the Geforce 4 MX or a Geforce FX 5200. Hence, it seems that the main problem is that Take-Two/Firaxis understated the minimum requirements for the game and this is the main source of headache.

Now obviously, there is great pressure on them to set the requirements as low as possible so that more people go out and buy it. But really it seems counterproductive (are you listening, Firaxis?) to sell the game to a whole bunch of people who will be lucky to get 5 frames per second on low settings, if they can even get it to run at all, and then have patching and support headaches. Either design the game with lower demands on hardware or be realistic about what it's going to take... And realistically, it seems that to get the most out of this game in terms of the visuals you're going to want at least a Geforce 6600GT on the nvidia side or a radeon X800 for ATI (both around $150). On the other hand, perhaps they should look to how Valve designed Half-Life 2 to work even on the ancient Geforce4 MX.

I personally haven't had any major issues with the graphics, and my frame rates are ok, but then again I have 7800 gtx sli.