Dear Sid

OpticalJim,

Dude, I just looked up the card that you had installed in your computer. And in all seriousness, Sid has done you less wrong then the person who sold you that card. Is there anyway that you could get a refund for the card? I would complain to the manager of the store where you bought that card.

I hope that you don't take this the wrong way. I really hate when people are taken advantage of by techno-geeks. My grandfather used to get ripped off by 'computer repairmen' all the time. It just makes me sad.
 
itsmekirill said:
I gather from these threads that most, not all, but most of the people having significant issues with the game are using either integrated graphics or very old GPU's like the Geforce 4 MX or a Geforce FX 5200. Hence, it seems that the main problem is that Take-Two/Firaxis understated the minimum requirements for the game and this is the main source of headache.

Now obviously, there is great pressure on them to set the requirements as low as possible so that more people go out and buy it. But really it seems counterproductive (are you listening, Firaxis?) to sell the game to a whole bunch of people who will be lucky to get 5 frames per second on low settings, if they can even get it to run at all, and then have patching and support headaches. Either design the game with lower demands on hardware or be realistic about what it's going to take... And realistically, it seems that to get the most out of this game in terms of the visuals you're going to want at least a Geforce 6600GT on the nvidia side or a radeon X800 for ATI (both around $150). On the other hand, perhaps they should look to how Valve designed Half-Life 2 to work even on the ancient Geforce4 MX.

I personally haven't had any major issues with the graphics, and my frame rates are ok, but then again I have 7800 gtx sli.

I think that there is a non-trivial number of people experiencing problems on 'decent' graphics hardware. For example, I'm running a 9600XT and having a heck of a time finishing a game because Civ 4 crashes to the desktop about every turn.
 
itsmekirill said:
I gather from these threads that most, not all, but most of the people having significant issues with the game are using either integrated graphics or very old GPU's like the Geforce 4 MX or a Geforce FX 5200. Hence, it seems that the main problem is that Take-Two/Firaxis understated the minimum requirements for the game and this is the main source of headache.

Now obviously, there is great pressure on them to set the requirements as low as possible so that more people go out and buy it. But really it seems counterproductive (are you listening, Firaxis?) to sell the game to a whole bunch of people who will be lucky to get 5 frames per second on low settings, if they can even get it to run at all, and then have patching and support headaches. Either design the game with lower demands on hardware or be realistic about what it's going to take... And realistically, it seems that to get the most out of this game in terms of the visuals you're going to want at least a Geforce 6600GT on the nvidia side or a radeon X800 for ATI (both around $150). On the other hand, perhaps they should look to how Valve designed Half-Life 2 to work even on the ancient Geforce4 MX.

I personally haven't had any major issues with the graphics, and my frame rates are ok, but then again I have 7800 gtx sli.


I think this is absolutely right - I'm at the low end but I AM over the minimum reqs on all counts. Right now, I really feel like I got suckered into buying something that I should be able to run on my pc, but can't. I mean, if the minimum really IS a 128 meg card, then say so... Don't pickpocket me for $50 and accept it as a given that I've got another hundred to plop down for a new card.
 
opticaljim said:
I'm not going to go over it all now but I can tell you that I changed out the video card from a 64MB to a 128MB and changed the driver from a Nvidia MX420 to a MX4000.

Again, the recomended specifications call for a 128 MB Video card w/directX 8 support (pixel and vertex shaders).

According to the specifications on the box that contained my new graphic card the specifications are as follows:

GPU: NVIDIA GeForce MX 4000

So what am I missing?

You are missing support for hardware pixel and vertex shaders. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_4

As noted on that page, the Geforce 4MX is basically a fast Geforce 2. It does not meet the recommended requirements for this game. Further, you paid $145 to upgrade from one Geforce 4MX to another marginally faster Geforce 4MX (please do not take that as an insult. To borrow your analogy, if a mechanic ripped me off on a repair job, I would want someone to tell me that I'd been ripped off). Get your money back and buy a Geforce 6600 or Radeon X700 from www.newegg.com or a similar competitive retailer. Video cards are a very easy do-it-yourself install.
 
In the off-chance that Sid is not reading this thread, I'm going to take matters into my own hands and get a video card so I can *hopefully* play Civ IV! However, I don't know that much about video cards, other than what I've been reading on these message boards... so go easy on me!!! Can somebody with some video card knowledge offer a recommendation for a decent PCI video card that will play Civ IV? Maybe even one you're actually using to play the game with good results... I'm not looking for bottom of the barrell, but I don't play any other games, so I won't need anything that fancy either... (and for what it's worth, I'll be using the card to override the intel card that currently resides in my Dell Dimension 2400 with a pentium 4, 2.8 GH processor and 512 mb of ram... so maybe I max out at some level of video card performance anyways!)

Thanks in advance... and further thanks to all the people who are helping less technical civ fans like myself get the game working!
 
Can somebody with some video card knowledge offer a recommendation for a decent PCI video card that will play Civ IV?

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a decent PCI video card. You'll need an AGP or PCI-express slot.
 
itsmekirill said:
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a decent PCI video card. You'll need an AGP or PCI-express slot.

Ok... I understand... but how about a PCI card that is sufficient to run Civ IV??
 
MiddleCity2000 said:
Ok... I understand... but how about a PCI card that is sufficient to run Civ IV??

Even some AGP cards cannot run the game. I highly doubt there is a PCI card available that can run the game. And even if there was, PCI video cards are more expensive so it wouldn't be worth your while.

I wouldn't go out and buy a new graphics card just yet. Wait for the first patch, and see if you can run it then. If not, then think about getting a better card.

I truly think that the system requirements were correct, but the software wasn't implemented properly. On my ATI Radeon 9700 I can run the game fine. Animations are smooth, no chop at all, full access to all my advisors, but then I go look at the enemies territory and the game CDTs. The game was running fine, but there was some programming flaw that killed it. This is why I think everyone should wait for a patch before spending more money. I would hate to have people complain that they paid $50 for the game, and then another $90 or so for a video card, and THEN they release a patch that made their OLD card work.
 
opticaljim said:
"There is a large difference between trolling and constructive criticism. When did you buy this MX 4000 for $150? It is outdated. I found this card sells now for $32.
Clearly your graphics card is the problem. This is also why you have black spots on the terrain."

First of all, I purchased the card from a Best Buy for about $85 and paid a guy $60 to install it for me. Secondly, the problems were all there before the installation and this was supposed to be the solution, regardless of how old the card is it is still 128MB card and, according to the "recomended" specs, an improvement over what I had before.

Clearly, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, not that I'm interested in getting into a pecker contest as to who knows what about computer design. I didn't pay the money I did twice for a lesson in software/hardware engineering.

And as far as attempting to teach me the difference between constructive criticism and "trolling" if you think I'm doing this simply to get a rise out of some of the people on this board and not out of complete and total frustration and anger that many of us have been jacked then you simply don't want to deal with the fact there are enough folks out there that feel the same way I do to the point that this must be dealt with. I intend to deal with it by never purchasing a Firaxis product again.

Moderate that.
Moderator Action: He is actually trying to help. If this is the attitude you are going to take with people who try to help you, then I don't think many people will bother.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889


I don't usually post, as I just go to different game boards to read about others' perceptions of different games. I do agree that many games in recent years have been released before they should be, and are definitely filled with issues that need addressing. I have been one of the lucky ones that can run Civ 4 very well, but I have an upper tier system. What has made me feel like I must post, is the sheer ignorance displayed by the original poster... and furthermore, his obnoxious attitude towards the person who tried to help him with 100% accurate information.

No one likes to find out they've been ripped off. I have in the past, and it's not fun. But I have to tell you, opticaljim, you were badly ripped off with that video card. The Geforce MX 4000 is a horrible video card for running games. It is unquestionably your problem, and unfortunately Best Buy steered you wrong. On top of that, to charge another $60 to install it is completely ridiculous as well. Installing a video card is about as easy as checking the oil on your car. On one hand I feel sorry for you, but on the other, I and most others research these things before throwing money around. It is common gaming knowledge that these MX cards are bad for gaming; you could have found this out before you bought one. It is undoubtedly your problem. I will make you a promise: go buy a Geforce 6600 GT, install the latest drivers, and most of your issues will disappear.

Again, this is not to say the game really does have some bugs that need addressing. But when you say that you spent $150 total on a MX 4000 card--which shows me you know little to nothing about gaming hardware--and expect it to play this game appropriately, I have to feel that your words have little worth to anyone at Firaxis when they read your complaint.
 
Boycott this crap company and Sid. I will never buy another game from any company sid has anything to do with. Or take2 and firaxis. Good luck, but you stole your last cent from me. Enjoy it guys. Keep putting out games like this and good luck in bankruptcy court.
 
Again, this is not to say the game really does have some bugs that need addressing. But when you say that you spent $150 total on a MX 4000 card--which shows me you know little to nothing about gaming hardware--and expect it to play this game appropriately, I have to feel that your words have little worth to anyone at Firaxis when they read your complaint.

So let me see if i can understand your reasoning. It seems to go like this:

Since I don't know a whole lot about gaming hardware I don't deserve to play the game "appropriately" although I didn't have that problem when I played Civ III and all their expansion packs over the last several years.

Perhaps I should never consider buying a car since I also lack some mechanical engineering knowledge.

You called me ignorant. Okay, fair enough, I lack knowledge in certain areas that obviously include PC hardware. I've already mentioned what I do for a living so I like to think there are some things I am good at. One thing I feel I am good at is recognizing when I have been taken advantage of, hence the letter.

What about you? Does there happen to be something in life that you may not know a lot about? Should you be deprived of those things simply because your lack of knowledge prevents you from experiencing it "appropriately"?

I'm not going to belittle you. I was wrong for doing that to the moderator. I felt he was being a condescending instead of helpful but I still shouldn't have reacted the way
I did. I try to expect more from myself.

The entire point I have been trying to make on this post is not only do I believe they rushed the product out to the detriment of many Civ fans but they also used a tech support outfit that completely ignored and sometimes even insulted those who sought help. The never returened the three E-mailes I sent.

As I stated before there have been those on the board who have been truly helpful.

I said to heck with it. I turned off my computer, pulled out the plugs and found the screw that open my computer. I had been watching the fellow who have installed the aforementioned MX4000. I located the card in my computer by matching it up against the previous card that was still lying on my table. I took the card out with a little difficulty because of the notch at the bottom of the card. Again, I've never done anything like this before.

I put the MX4000 back in the box, went back to Best Buy and explained the situation. He allowed me to trade it out for a GeForce 6200. I went back home and put it in my computer. During the process I accidentally knocked out the audio plug. So I had to reopen it and put the little plug back in. I installed the software. I opened the game.

The intro no longer skips.

The game no longer advised me that I'm below minimum requirements.

There is still too much darkness and confusion in areas that have been previously explored but I'm willing to chalk that up to an inferior monitor I'm using from 2 computers ago, a HP Pavilion M50. Or, perhaps, a future patch will clear it up.

Thank you, Blecklord, Skedastic, and dozens of others that have been very helpful by offering suggestions on this board without arrogantly insulting the intelligence of "average" guys like me.
 
animalstyle said:
But why mess up the gameplay, by slowing it down with expensive (system hogging) graphics? Why have graphics, when they dont even matter; they shouldnt matter, especially when it alienates alot of the gamers from playing.

Actually, by going this way they're using less resources for graphics, allowing the AI and game engine to run better. That's why we have these fancy video cards: to do the graphics processing instead of the CPU.
 
See, this is why it just isn't a good idea to pay for a game before you've had a chance to play it and see if it works on your system, if it's worth paying for, and if any issues that crop up after release are addressed with timely patches.

I've bought every Civ game from the original through Complete--but for PTW and Conquests I waited until the game had stabilized to do so. Based on my experiences so far, I do not think I'll be giving Firaxis my $40 until they demonstrate a willingness to fix the fairly serious stability and interface issues that have emerged. I don't pay for the privilege of being a beta tester.

(Mandatory troll spray: yes, I've exhaustively gone through the usual roulette wheel of driver versions, firmware updates, cache clearing, reinstalling, de-OCing, ad nauseam. No other game on my system behaves this badly, and I play a lot of graphics-intensive FPS games.)
 
Catsy said:
See, this is why it just isn't a good idea to pay for a game before you've had a chance to play it and see if it works on your system, if it's worth paying for, and if any issues that crop up after release are addressed with timely patches.

I've bought every Civ game from the original through Complete--but for PTW and Conquests I waited until the game had stabilized to do so. Based on my experiences so far, I do not think I'll be giving Firaxis my $40 until they demonstrate a willingness to fix the fairly serious stability and interface issues that have emerged. I don't pay for the privilege of being a beta tester.

(Mandatory troll spray: yes, I've exhaustively gone through the usual roulette wheel of driver versions, firmware updates, cache clearing, reinstalling, de-OCing, ad nauseam. No other game on my system behaves this badly, and I play a lot of graphics-intensive FPS games.)


You are making judgements based on a cracked version?

And then you think we care about your Civ IV cracked Reviewed here! article?

Sorry your cracked version doesn't work... loser :rolleyes:
 
I agree with OpticalJim. This game is a LEMON!

My laptop meets all of the minimum requirements and most of the recommended ones, but I can't even complete a turn in this game before it freezes. I have all the updated drivers, and I have followed both Microsoft's support suggestions and Firaxis' support suggestions, to no avail. This seems to be the prevailing situation for a lot of people who have blown money on this game. My DxDiag and the steps I've so far taken to fix the game are posted in the "Graphics/Sound Problems?" sticky thread on this board, if you want to see. There's no reason this game shouldn't work. Firaxis has released a lemon, and there is something very, very wrong with that.
 
Hi

I see a lot of people really disappointed with the game.
I understand people are angry, but what some people
got really weird ideas like a firaxis boycott.

anyone thinks this makes sense?

the topic linked below polls this question, have a look
 
You are making judgements based on a cracked version?

Not that it's any of your business, but no, not cracked. If you think cracking the game is the only way a person can fairly evaluate a legitimate copy without dropping $40 first, then I'm afraid you have a failure of imagination with which I cannot help you.

And then you think we care about your Civ IV cracked Reviewed here! article?

You are laboring under the misapprehension that I care about your uninformed assumptions and misconceptions about me. The problem with jumping on your high horse is that when you miss the mark, you hit the ground hard.

Sorry your cracked version doesn't work... loser

Charming. But irrelevant, as I am not using a "cracked" copy of the game and the issues I've encountered are the same that scores of other legitimate users have reported and been unable to fix through diligent, good-faith attempts at troubleshooting.

Sorry to rain on your parade of self-righteousness. But thanks for playing.
 
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