Defend Shakespeare

[Pangur Bán]

What's all this nonsense about shakespeare adding words to the English language? I doubt he added any, since he didn't speak any other language fluently. As for his plots, he tended to take them from other sources. Some of his plays, like Coriolanus and Timon of Athens, are garbage.

Having said all that, I have to admit that his best plays, King Lear, Macbeth and Hamlet, are indeed masterpieces.

Still, a few masterpieces is one thing. Shakespeare's current status is definitely another. The reason Shakespeare's so big is because England needed a literary giant. They imposed this honour on Shakespeare. The difficulty of the English he uses in some way protects this status. But this status continually reinforces itself, as new artists continually turn to reinterpret the most prestigious authors.

Shakespeare is prestigious, but I'm still very skeptical about his exalted status as the greatest writer in the English language.

 

[polymath]

If you speak only of the plays, you tell only half the story -

My own feeling is that is his sonnets are just as fine, if not finer:

"Like as the waves make to the pebbled shore
Thus do our minutes hasten to their end..."

"Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate...."

"...If I could write the beauty of your eyes,
And in fresh numbers number all your graces,
The age to come would say 'This poet lies;
Such heavenly touches ne'er touched earthly faces'..."

"Full many a glorious morning have I seen
Flatter the mountain tops with sovereign eye,
Kissing with golden face the meadows green,
Gilding pale streams with heavenly alchemy..."

"My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun.
Coral is far more red, than her lips red..."

Exquisite!

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by calgacus
Still, a few masterpieces is one thing. Shakespeare's current status is definitely another. The reason Shakespeare's so big is because England needed a literary giant. They imposed this honour on Shakespeare. The difficulty of the English he uses in some way protects this status. But this status continually reinforces itself, as new artists continually turn to reinterpret the most prestigious authors.

Shakespeare is prestigious, but I'm still very skeptical about his exalted status as the greatest writer in the English language.

Would you prefer Chaucer or Milton? Those seem to be the other candidates. I think that Shakespeare, far from bein inaccessable, is MORE accessable because of his language, especially compared to those two. Shakespeare is a performers writer, except the sonnets, and they work well aloud also.

Even his bad plays, like Timon, Coriolanus, Love's Labors Lost, Henry VI are comparable to good modern work, say Tennessee Williams or GB Shaw. To dismiss someone as the greatest after allowing that three of his tragedies are masterworks (I hate the use of the term 'masterpiece", which is, after all, student work) seems a little abrupt. Who else can you name with even two such works?

J

 

[Pangur Bán]

Do you mean playwrights, onejayhawk, or just authors in general? Do you mean English-speaking writers, or just writers?

 

[onejayhawk]

Chaucer and Milton were not playwriters. They are the only two I would seriously consider of comparable stature. If you want to expand to Dante and Cervantes, feel free, but the intent was English language.

Name any english language author of any period that can list two works comparable to Lear and Hamlet. This is acknowledging that one part of Shakespeares genius is his prolific pen. His english history plays alone are worth 2-3 careers. His comedies another 4-5. 12th Night tops anything ever written by an American, not that that is high praise.

J

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by onejayhawk
Chaucer and Milton were not playwriters. They are the only two I would seriously consider of comparable stature. If you want to expand to Dante and Cervantes, feel free, but the intent was English language.

Name any english language author of any period that can list two works comparable to Lear and Hamlet. This is acknowledging that one part of Shakespeares genius is his prolific pen. His english history plays alone are worth 2-3 careers. His comedies another 4-5. 12th Night tops anything ever written by an American, not that that is high praise.

J

Well, that last bit is very, very subjective!

If you want English speaking authors that I think are greater than Shakespeare, I'd start with Walter Scott and James Joyce. But, of course, they're novelists/poets and not playwrights. For playwrights, I'll admit that's a toughy...but I'd say Beckett at least's in the same ball park.