Defensive artillery in city

[Ozymandias]

Indeed a VERY good one When I (and hopefully many others ) commence the Post Labor Day Wiki Assault, this is a "trick" I'd like to see documented, as (even though it's limited to immobile units) seems the best addition to artillery functionality I've heard of for the A.I.

... And, I feel I must add, in the best possible way, that it takes a very twisted mind to conceive of auto-producing immobile "naval" units inland!

All The Best,


Oz

 

[crazyanswer]

Or you make give it a transport capacity, so it cannot load in anything, and you make it "transport foot only" and "transport missile only", so it can in fact transport nothing.

Interesting idea, I shouldn't have missed this before.

But how about this situation if I intend to include two kinds of aircraft:

A) Land Aircrafts, can "Rebase" on cities, can't "Rebase" or "Load" on carriers.
B) Carrier Aircrafts, can "Rebase" on cities, can 't "Rebase" on carriers but can "Load" on them.

Thanks,

 

[Steph]

I don't think you can, but anyway why couldn't aircraft rebase on an aircraft?

Suppose a carrier wing takes some losses. I suppose there won't be any problem to send another wing from another carrier, or even from a land base, to this carrier, as long the pilots and planes are carrier capable.

 

[da3dalus]

You could also have certain cities be able to build a building which auto-produces immobile sea units (which can be done in any city, coastal or non-coastal) and give them bombard. They will bombard the crud out of anything that comes within range (give them whatever graphic you wish). These can act as many things, castle archer towers, dug in artillery, etc... since the unit is a sea unit, land units won't need to fight each one, they can't be captured, but are simply destroyed when the city is taken (same as a ship)... so it may not make it overly powerful, but keep your bombard going in a city that is being besieged. And the AI always makes 100% use out of bombard capabilities of ships, whereas land artillery may/or may not bombard units within range.

Tom

I like the way you think good sir, I will definitely play around with this idea.

This could be a good way to simulate coastal defenses too, if you allow the unit to be buildable it can only be built on coastal cities but it's immobile. You could call it a "coastal battery" or something like that...

 

[Ozymandias]

I don't think you can, but anyway why couldn't aircraft rebase on an aircraft [carrrier]?

I'd love to find a way to keep B-29s from operating off of Lexington-class CVs.

 

[Steph]

Only this kind of carrier, but from other carriers?

 

[nick0515]

... And, I feel I must add, in the best possible way, that it takes a very twisted mind to conceive of auto-producing immobile "naval" units inland!

All The Best,


Oz

So true. You're a twisted, civ modding genious Tom! I wish I could think so far ouside of the box.

 

[elenar]

There is one downside of having immobile naval units as artilery: it won't use defensive bombardment, I think

 

[Ozymandias]

There is one downside of having immobile naval units as artilery: it won't use defensive bombardment, I think

I did a quick experiment and you are quite correct.

Furthermore, having the "naval" unit alone in the inland city won't stop attackers from simply occupying the place.

Best,

Oz

 

[tom2050]

Indeed a VERY good one When I (and hopefully many others ) commence the Post Labor Day Wiki Assault, this is a "trick" I'd like to see documented, as (even though it's limited to immobile units) seems the best addition to artillery functionality I've heard of for the A.I.

... And, I feel I must add, in the best possible way, that it takes a very twisted mind to conceive of auto-producing immobile "naval" units inland!

All The Best,


Oz

Thank you for the compliment (I think ), but I don't think it was me who came up with that idea, I remember it was being discussed somewhere at sometime, and I just happened to remember it. It's only real use would be in certain situations where it is not necessary for other units to actually fight the city artillery to take the city... But where one wants the city to be able to bombard enemy units constantly if they are closing. Certain scenarios this is useful is for medieval castles (boiling oil, archer towers), perhaps emplaced artillery pieces in a WW2 scenario. To help, they could be given lethal land, to make them more useful, and blitz if you wish them to be able to attack more than once.

Of course, immobile land artillery will still fortify (since the Artillery AI flag does not require Load and Capture flags)... but I'm not sure if immobile land artillery will bombard as aggressively as a sea unit will. Also, sea units in a city with more than 1 movement points can't go anywhere anyways, but I'm not sure if land units with 2+ movement points will retreat when in a city (I don't think they ever do), so immobile land arty with blitz would probably be close to the same thing.

But the downsides are evident, as you mentioned, sea arty can't be captured, only destroyed, no defensive bombardment, must be auto-produced unless at a coastal city... so for most situations, it may not be worth the trouble.

Just my 15 cents

Tom

 

[Ozymandias]

Thank you for the compliment (I think )

- Definitely a compliment.

Just my 15 cents

Inflation, huh?

But back to the matter at hand - IMHO it's the only way to simulate REALLY big guns. I've often wished that RRs could be a terrain type with armored trains and huge guns limited to them. As I refuse to have such things wandering willy-nilly through wood and dell, I postulate a slight alteration in history in which such guns are used for static (city) defense, in which case having them destroyed if the city falls also makes sense.

Best As Ever,

Oz

 

[General 666]

A good advice for a defensive artillery can be found here :

Well this is almost a replacement for my earlier firebase.
This unit was designed around the large guns found in cities during the last century. It has however very specific flags needed to achieve optimal usage from the AI.

Flags and Stats needed:
Remove the checkmark from the Go To box
make the bombard higher than the Artillery
The range longer than the artillery
Rate of Fire 3-4
Operational range equal to paratrooper
Check make in zone of control
Check make in bombard effects
Load box checked
Bombard box checked
Airdrop box checked
Foot unit, ranged attack animation, and lethal sea bombardment flags

The most important flags and stats are the removal of the go to check mark and the foot unit flag. The reason is the AI still treats this unit as any artillery unit as long as you do not have the IMMOBILE flag selected. This unit should be available at the time of replaceable parts, making it’s air drop ability only available later with the advent of airports.
Giving it defensive stats is not recommended since without defensive stats it creates a unique tactical unit that must be protected. It can be placed by boats along coast lines to control major sea ways but It’s capture can seriously change the tide of war. With the foot unit flag it can then later be placed anywhere on the map with a helicopter (The Ai does seem to treat it as a paratrooper however I have only seen it used once.)
These stats are recommended so as not to unbalance the current game setup by creating a situation where the AI will build a multiple of these in one city, or only these instead of artillery.
enjoy

EDIT: Check the artillery box as well

City Gun

Here link to the thread :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=56603

 

[nick0515]

Hunter mentions, "The most important flags and stats are the removal of the go to check mark and the foot unit flag. The reason is the AI still treats this unit as any artillery unit as long as you do not have the IMMOBILE flag selected." But we all know how well the AI utilises Artillery units, so I'm not sure there is much advantage in this approach.

 

[Ozymandias]

[...] But we all know how well the AI utilises Artillery units, so I'm not sure there is much advantage in this approach.

Civinator's Ideas are worth exploring.

-Oz

 

[tom2050]

You know, it amazes me that Firaxsis left the AI in the situation of almost completely not using artillery units. If they did something similar to naval units escorting transports, at least then it would have been normal. If an artillery unit is available, have 1 defender escort it, and this would have been at least better than it is now.

Sometimes I have tagged Artillery with the Artillery flag and Offense flag, with Attack and Bombard the same values, so this way AI will occasionally use them as artillery units, but not make them completely useless to AI.

Tom

 

[nick0515]

So the AI NEVER actually uses artillery units to bombard except for in defensive bombardment right?

What about cruise missiles. Does the AI use them to bombard? If so why on earth didn't they programme the AI to bombard with the artillery? I don't usually play modern scenarios so I'm not familiar with the AI's abilities re cruise missiles. I sincerely hope they do use them properly though.

 

[Virote_Considon]

They do bombard properly very, very rarely, IIRC.

 

[nick0515]

They do bombard properly very, very rarely, IIRC.

So they did programme it, just really badly. Oh well...

 

[tom2050]

I'm wondering on whether or not cruise missles will bombard more often if they have very long range (say 10-20 range). I'll have to test it out, but hopefully the AI does... if AI does not, I'll have to resort to using more air units instead, since it is a serious disadvantage to the AI to not use cruise missles.

Tom

 

[Steph]

So they did programme it, just really badly. Oh well...

if (Rand(10000) <= 1)
Bombard();