Deity+3 classic succession game 1: "We who survived"

[TheViking]

Deity+3 classic succession game 1: "We who survived"

I assume everyone reading this is familiar with what this is all about but just in case: This succession game is a deity+3 game, meaning it is 3 levels more difficult than deity. It requires Civ2 Classic since deity+n games do not work in Civ2 MGE.

Game parameters:

We play as Tokugawa of the Japanese and start with two settlers and Bronze Working.



Map size: 68 x 147 (9996 squares)
Large landmass
Round world
Continents
Wet
Temperate
Age 3 Billion years

I made slight modifications in the map editor (reducing the number of lakes and oceans below 64 and increasing very slightly the chances of naval warfare later on).

AI civs: Celts, French, Spanish, Chinese, English, Indians. Restarts are on.

I was rather undecided on whether to start with two settlers. If lots of people disagree on this we can disband one settler.

I suggest we are not allowed to win by spaceship. However, the AI civs can build them.

No additional restrictions but I'd prefer to avoid fundamentalism unless it's absolutely necessary to win. If we are doing really well between roughly 0 and 500 AD we should consider not allowing bribing of cities.

Should we be required to keep a spotless reputation ?

In addition to me the following have expressed interest in playing:

TimTheEnchanter
Duke of Marlbrough (probably only occasionally; no problem from my point of view)
Jayne
Andu Indorin (possibly not right from the start because of computer problems)
Old n Slow

In addition Kev had expressed interest towards the end of the D+2 succession game. Has anyone heard from him recently ?

Regarding playing strategy, all I can say is that D+3 is hard. Very hard. Going for construction (=fortresses) early on as suggested by Duke in a different thread is probably a good idea. Getting an alliance early on is crucial as well as finding as many AI civs as possible to exchange/steal techs, get alliances etc. Wars should IMO be avoided at all costs. Unhappiness is such a huge problem for the first several thousand years that the AI can easily destroy us despite its stupidity if we are not careful. And the barbs can be a major nuisance.

And here is the game:

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I can play more (normally) during the early stages, but once the game progresses I may have to drop out or greatly reduce the number of turns I play.

It looks like a nice starting spot.

Pop the hut! Pop the Hut!

 

[Old n Slow]

Yeah, yeah, get the hut!

The early turns are a serious challenge, so I'd definately keep the extra settler -- maybe do a little roading before the second city.

 

[MikeLynch]

It requires Civ2 Classic since deity+n games do not work in Civ2 MGE.

Anyone know if they work in Test of Time?

 

[TheViking]

Any volunteer to start the game ?

I suggest we start by playing 10 turns each but reduce this to 5 in the 'endgame' as in the previous game.

I assume Kev will be heard from but still, depending on how many players we want, there may be room for one or two additional players.

We should try getting ceremonial burial ASAP, temples are absolutely necessary. Mysticism will also be useful to increase the effectiveness of temples.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

4000 BC (1) – Two wandering Nomads have decided to try and build an empire of their own. They begin by visiting a local tribe and asking for some support. The tribe offers them a band of ‘horsemen’, whatever those are. They sure look fast so they are asked to explore their surroundings to the East. The other nomad moves to the West in the hopes of finding a decent spot to build their first city.


3950 BC (2) – The band of Nomads moves to build a road for the future settlement while our other friends explore the surrounding terrain a bit more. The ‘horse things’ move East and spot another village. Surely they will be willing to help as the first village has.


3900 BC (3) – A road is built and exploration continues. The local tribe sees our men riding horses and says ‘Hey, we have some of those. We just use them to run around a circular track and see who is fastest; perhaps you can get more use out of them.” The men on horses race each other to the North. The other band of Nomads wanders South to see what is around our area.


3850 BC (4) – The men on horses decide it is best to split up, one heads East, the other continues North. A mighty river is found. The nomads continue to plan for a settlement soon.


3800 BC (5) – The men on horses follows the river North West and finds another local tribe. They show us these men that have big curved sticks that shoot smaller sticks. They call them ‘Archers’, whatever those are. They don’t move as fast as the men on horses, so they are sent South to help protect our soon to founded settlement. The group of nomads looks at the nearby countryside and decides, ‘Well, this is better than nothing’. They drop their gear, start a fire, and build some shelter. The framing for a Barracks is started with the plans to change it to some more useful structure that may help the people remain calm. Scientists begin to look at ways to help deal with death in order to ease the peoples minds. More exploration to the South reveals another local tribe.


3750 BC (6) – The Nomad to the South is timid to visit the local tribe since they have heard rumors that not all tribes are friendly and they have no means to protect themselves. The leaders decides ‘Nations are not built on timid ness, either we push forward or we shrivel and die.’ The tribe leaders tell us they saw us founding our nearby settlement and they are tired of walking so much. They ask if they can join us. We are so happy to see the effect we are having on people already. It just further adds to our resolve that we are needed here. However, the people feel that that this many people may not be able to survive with so little food around so they are angry at this decision. Our settlement, upon hearing of the new towns discontent becomes worried and unhappy. With the people not willing to work, this will reduce our production. We will allow the settlements to become unhappy since the people will work for the immediate time being.


3700 BC (7) – The settlements start to riot, the workers are brought in from the fields to entertain each other. The men on horses the are moving East find another tribe. The men on horses moving North have found a vast Ocean and began moving West. The men with sticks moving South have found another tribe. The remaining Nomad moves to build a road for our second settlement.


3650 BC (8) – The rumors of unfriendly tribes continue to circulate. The men on horses to the East are willing to visit the tribe because they are so close to it that if any unfriendly men come out they can run or fight. Upon approaching the tribe, a band of men on horses runs out to them yelling and shouting. They hear things such as ‘We were waiting for you’, ‘show us the way’. Thus, another band of men of horses joins us.

The men with sticks visit the local tribe because they know the other group of men on horses is nearby to help if needed. Upon approaching the tribe, a band of men on horses runs out to them yelling and shouting. However, these were not kind words, words that will not be repeated here as to not offend the sensitivities of others. Our band of men on horses runs up behind them and bonks them all on the head. A few of our men had minor injuries such as sore shoulders and backs after the melee. However, because of the actions they now know what to expect in battle.

The people are sent back to the fields to collect more food and building materials.


3600 BC (9) – The settlements, again, go into disorder. As long as the people continue to provide progress towards our wealth and science while occasionally working in the fields, we are content.

Our tired men on horses rest for a while. Our men with sticks continue south. Our men on horses to the East continue to explore. Another tribe is spotted, but they will not be visited soon since we have seen that angry tribes do exist.


3550 BC (10) – The people are sent to work in the fields again. Soon, we will have discovered the meaning of Ceremonial Burial and our framing that is being done for a barracks can be easily adapted to suit this new idea.

Our men with sticks continue south towards our settlements as protection. Our nomad continues to build roads to connect our settlements as well as make the land more usable to our populace.

The injured men on horses continue to rest. The men on horses to the East plan for the worst and move into position to visit the local tribe.

World Map

Game

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would have liked to get some gold out of the huts, but I guess units are better than Barbs. I also just realized that the latest Horseman we got was a NONE despite our cities being founded. So, someone is nearby I would guess.

I'm not sure if I'm doing the best things with the cities by letting them go in and out of disorder. When in disorder we still get science production (which is my main concern right now), but by putting them back to work we are also getting 'normal' production intermixed with it.

We shoudl get Ceremonial Burial next turn, and needless to say, I'm planning on switching the Barracks to a Temple. Hopefully the Archer can get down to Kyoto and keep the people content and working soon.

I'm not sure if the second city is helping more than it is hurting (since it caused both cities to be in disorder) but it is providing a bit more science and is actually situated pretty well with our first city.

 

[TheViking]

Nice start, the terrain looks good but unhappiness is a huge problem. However, the terrain also means that the AI civs will grow very fast.

I suggest we use the last letter of a player's name to determine the playing order. This ensures a totally different playing order from the one we had last time:

Jayne
TheViking
Duke of Marlbrough
Andu Indorin
TimTheEnchanter
Kev ? (assuming he wants to play)
Old n Slow

This means I get to clean up the barbs

Since Duke started Andu plays next. Since he's having computer problems it's probably Tim's turn now.

 

[Old n Slow]

Nice turnset Duke -- very pretty country.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I played my turns. I will try to put together the writeup sometime during the day tomorrow.

[real life]The reason I haven't jumped in to play right away the last couple days is that we just added a new little Enchantress to the Enchanter family last week. Needless to say, it's been a little hectic around here as we go back into the world of and and less but I'm all anyway.
[/real life]

 

[Jayne]

Congratulations!!!

 

[Old n Slow]

Ditto --

 

[TheViking]

Congratulations !

Take all the time you need to finish and post the writeup.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Congrats!

Another Civ 2 player in the making. Now, be sure to show her all the details of trade and IPRB. We'll see how she's doing in 6 months or so.

 

[Jayne]

I've already started Lucy (now 20 months) on Civ2!! I've started up a game for her and let her have a bash around on the keys. There's been lots of exploring but she's yet to build a city!!!

Of course she's playing Chieftan. She's not quite ready for D+3 yet!!

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

The reign of Timugawa The Disorderly

Timugawa was a man of knowledge who did not place a high value on the material goods of the world. He could not be bothered with concerns for the wealth of his nation. He did not see the benefit of large buildings. He did not want to build large armies. Timugawa wished to know more about the world around him.

Timugawa was not concerned that the citizens of the city were rioting and were not productively building, so long as they fed themselves well and learned about the world around them. In the early years of his reign the wise men of Japan developed plans for temples to worship the ancestors and to bury the dead so that they could go join the great ancestors in the afterlife. (Not to mention, it got rid of the stench of the bodies!) Yet even with these plans, Timugawa was not interested in building one of these Temples if it meant slowing the peoples' pursuit of knowledge.

Men riding the backs of large powerful beasts roamed the countryside carrying the flag of Japan, gathering information about the land and its inhabitants. Timugawa saw no need in bringing these beasts and their masters back toward the Japanese cities. There was much more value to be gained from them exploring the wilderness.

One of the groups of men riding beasts came across a small village in the wilderness far to the east of the Japanese cities. Much like the citzens of the village known as Osaka, the inhabitants of this village were in awe of the tales told by the beastriders of the great civilization of knowledge that Timugawa envisioned. They pledged to join the Japanese in their quest for knowledge. The people called their village Edo.

Around the same time, another group of the beastriders continued exploring to the east. There they met a group of men bearing long pointy sticks, and wearing bright yellow clothing. They called themselves Spanish. Knowing that Timugawa valued knowledge and growth over fighting, the riders met with the Spaniards to propose plans for peaceful coexeistence.

The Spanish knew nothing of bronze working, a skill which had been passed down from the ancestors, however they had developed an alphabet - something Timugawa had set his people to study already. The beast riders taught the Spanish warriors how to forge bronze tools while the spanish shared their alphabet. Because of this show of friendship, the Spanish vowed peace with the Japanese people so that all could continue to learn about the world. However the spanish did not fully trust the Japanese beast riders because they had nothing else to offer, and therefore the spanish would not agree to an alliance. A beast rider sped across the land to deliver this information to the rest of the Japanese people.For years the Spanish and Japanese lived in peaceful coexistence.

Then one day a group of Japanese explorers north of the main japanese cities came across a tiny village. The village was orderly and peaceful - something Timugawa aspired to. The people of the village had developed a series of laws that all people obeyed. Because the Japanese beast riders had no such laws of their own, this village did not wish to join the Japanese nation. Instead they shared their Code of Laws with the beast riders in the hope that one day the Japanese would live within such laws as well.

Timugawa was impressed by the villagers' laws and quickly put them in force throughout the Japanese cities. With this new knowledge and with three growing cities, Timugawa sent a messenger to the Spanish. Without provocation, the messenger gave this Code of Laws to the Spanish and explained its value. The messenger then recited a longwinded, boring request that the Spanish join in an alliance with the Japanese so that they may exist in harmony for all time. Bored by this long drawn out request, the Spanish emissary forgot what had just happened and he said that an alliance would be granted so long as the Japanese taught him the code of laws. The japanese messenger calmly described the Code (again!) and the spanish emissary was pleased. Thus, an alliance was formed.

Later that year, a group of the beast riders came across another village East of Edo, not far from where the Spanish were most often found. Again these villagers were amazed by the tales told by the best riders of the great Japanese nation, so the village of Satsuma joined the Japanese.

Closer to home, Timugawa had ordered the creation of a road between Kyoto and Osaka. He insisted that the road be built through the middle of the Great Worm Forest, so that it would be easier to study the worms and the incredible strings they created. There was much rejoicing when the road from Osaka to Kyoto was finally completed. Timugawa ordered that more roads be built ner these two cities, and that the people begin to irrigate their fields so that someday they might give better crop yeilds.

Timugawa loved to hear the stories sent back from the Japanese explorers. Beast riders far to the north of Kyoto found a village who made an interesting proposal: They would give another group of beasts, but only if japan vowed to give the riders all the food and materials they would need because their riders were not accustomed to riding far from their village and did not know how to live off the land.

The explorers told of one village that gave 50 shiny discs, while another village told how things like those shiny discs could be given value and used as currency. They told of the great Spanish city of Madrid, and of yet another village named Kagoshima willing to join the Japanese nation.

The city of Osaka produced so much bounty that it had doubled in size since it was discovered. Timugawa ordered that many of these citizens stop working and provide music and stories for the others in the city. By ending the riots in the city, those people working became much more productive.

Log
3550 (turn 0)
- Need 10b for advance, 9 accumulated.
- Work grass in osaka, silk in kyoto for extra trade.

3500 (turn 1)
- Disorder everywhere. This will continue for some time.
- Ceremonial Burial ->Alphabet
- Keep both cities to food production/disorder
- Hut Advanced tribe Edo - pretty lousy land - contains 1 hidden special 2 squares SW of City
- Horse meets spanish warrior - Exchange bronze (only option) for alphabet (only option). Peace. No alliance with our pathetic civilization. No tribute.

3450 (turn 2)
- Disorder everywhere
- research ->Code of Laws
- 33 beakers needed - 6 accum, 4per turn.

3400 (turn 3)
- Most advanced - 3.Spanish, 5.Japan
- Hut scroll Code of Laws!
- Notice that our power is supreme. Talk to the spanish - give code of laws - ask for alliance - they demand code of laws again - Ok! Alliance! But no gift.

3350 (turn 4)
- research -> Monarchy
- Hut Advanced tribe Satsuma - close to spain - seems to be ocean port, better terrain. 2 Hidden specials 1 due east and 2 SW

3300 (turn 5)
- Road completed on silk giving extra arrow (doesn't help now as it goes to gold)
- 19beakers, 48 needed, 5/turn

3250 (turn 6)
- Hut horse (kyoto) at 53,75 - so nobody else near us to the NW.

3200 (turn 7)
- Hut 50g (finally)

3150 (turn 8)
- Road connecting Kyoto to Osaka completed
- Osaka about to grow - Elvis hired
- Talk to spanish - rebuffed

3100 (turn 9)
- Order restored in Osaka - 1b, 1g, 2s
- settler precharged
- Hut - another freaking advanced tribe!
- Hut Currency (delaying monarchy )
- 39 beakers - 60 needed - 6 per turn - 4 turns away

3050 (turn 10)
- Precharged (x1) Settler moved to shore gls square near osaka - (road first, then irrigate to grow city?)
- Madrid Located - right near Satsuma as expected.

Notes
Stayed in disorder in cities to speed growth and science at the expense of production and gold. No units kept for garrison - keep expanding. Once cities reach size 2, one can be an elvis. I didn't want to push temples too much since they cost gold to maintain - figured the Elvi would get us by. Most of these cities could probably start building settlers not long after they stabilize and then just repeat the process to get back to size 2.

Huts gave THREE more advanced tribes (plus other good stuff) Combined with the one AT Duke got, I don't know that I've ever seen a run like that before.

We have an alliance with spanish, hence I let them run around our empty cities. Since we are currently supreme with all our little cities, I didn't figure we'd get much from them, so I haven't begged much. Once our power ranking drops, maybe we can start begging more. Note, we were the first to get Currency, so they probably don't have it yet.

Edo will fill its food box next turn. Hire an elvis next turn to start making sheilds and gold when the city grows. - Same applies to other cities.

By my reckoning we are 3 turns from Monarchy. (4 turns from next oedo year)

We are almost to the point where we could rush the temple in Kyoto, but remember, it will cost 1g to maintain it.

The North
The East
The Center

 

[Kev]

I'm here! I'm here! Sorry, I was away for a while.

* Excellent start in most every account. Found an ally early, lots of good land (we should claim the lovely river area ASAP), an AMAZING run of hut goodies, and expansion that is probably outpacing many of the AI's at this point - though they will soon catch up and pass us I think.

* Have we built a few warriors to keep some peace? May as well get them so they can help with unhappiness a bit. Also better to get them now as we may have to take warrior code in some trade with another civ or from a hut.

* Does roading a forest/silk really give an extra arrow? I did not know that!

* Are we setting up a new order since the one suggested about the last letter of the names seems off?

* Tim - best wishes for you and your newly expanded family. Jayne: My little Shannon is 26 months - we should set up a Civilization play date.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Kev
I'm here! I'm here! Sorry, I was away for a while.

* Excellent start in most every account. Found an ally early, lots of good land (we should claim the lovely river area ASAP), an AMAZING run of hut goodies, and expansion that is probably outpacing many of the AI's at this point - though they will soon catch up and pass us I think.

* Have we built a few warriors to keep some peace? May as well get them so they can help with unhappiness a bit. Also better to get them now as we may have to take warrior code in some trade with another civ or from a hut.

* Does roading a forest/silk really give an extra arrow? I did not know that!

* Are we setting up a new order since the one suggested about the last letter of the names seems off?

* Tim - best wishes for you and your newly expanded family. Jayne: My little Shannon is 26 months - we should set up a Civilization play date.

This start is stunning. I couldn't believe when i kept getting more and more AT's. They're quite spread out so we are rather vulnerable (to barbs, etc.), but it has given us such a boost that we are currently the Supreme Power. Growth is so difficult for us to sustain, the AI's will quickly pass us, but for now we have a leg up on them.

* I did not build a single unit or improvement. I seemed to recall martial law was not very effective at this level (need 2 units to keep 1 citizen content?) So I kept the cities in disorder as they built up enough food to grow to size 2 (this also allows us to accumulate beakers in disorder). Once at size 2, they can hire an elvis to restore order so that one worker can start producing shields.

* Yes, I am pretty sure a road adds one trade to any trade producing square, or any "flat" square. It definitely does it to silk and other trade specials, and I think any rivered square as well.

* As far as I know the order Viking posted still stands...we just started in the middle with Duke, and then skipped Andu since he said his system would be unstable until the end of the year. AFAIK, you're up.

* She "helped" me write up the turns when she woke up early this morning.

 

[Old n Slow]

Off? We merely started in the middle of the list...

I'll be hosting family for the Thanksgiving weekend (extended into the week following as well), so if I may have to pass for a while.

 

[TheViking]

Originally posted by Kev
* Are we setting up a new order since the one suggested about the last letter of the names seems off?

The playing order is (bold=has played)

Jayne
TheViking
Duke of Marlbrough
Andu Indorin (having computer problems; may not play until next year)
TimTheEnchanter
Kev
Old n Slow

As Old n Slow indicated we started in the middle of the list. This means that Kev plays next.

 

[Kev]

I had forgotten about Andu's computer situation.

Looks like I tuned in at a good time (thanks Viking for the reminder email as well).

I'll be happy to jump in now - though I won't be able to play until Friday.