Old n Slow
Emperor
Looks GREAT so far -- but I'm unable to take my turn until Sunday. 
Please plan around & I'll eagerly jump in as soon as allowable.
Please plan around & I'll eagerly jump in as soon as allowable.
Deity+3 classic succession game 1: "We who survived"
- Thread starter TheViking
- Start date
A quick Threadjack:
If anyone would like to help finish off the demogame, you can play a turn or ten.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1406078#post1406078
I'm basically making it a succession game now since there no longer seems to be any citizens to offer any input.
If anyone would like to help finish off the demogame, you can play a turn or ten.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1406078#post1406078
I'm basically making it a succession game now since there no longer seems to be any citizens to offer any input.
TheViking
The world is not enough
Then I'll play next (probably on Friday) and then Old n Slow can jump in.Originally posted by Old n Slow
Looks GREAT so far -- but I'm unable to take my turn until Sunday.
Please plan around & I'll eagerly jump in as soon as allowable.
We are making great progress, I find it absolutely amazing that at D+3 we are number 1 in both science and population at this stage of the game.
Here are some maps.
The world as we know it:
Our eastern cities near the Spanish:
Our oldest cities, including the capital (Kyoto):
IMO we should found a city on the river squares ASAP. These squares are not visible in the above maps but they are roughly halfway between Kyoto and Edo, i.e. just outside the right edge of the map showing Kyoto. The river is a great area for some cities and we must be first to claim this area.
I still seriously doubt we'll be able to get any of the early wonders but if we do IMO HG is by far the highest priority wonder, it makes it much easier to deal with unhappiness.
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
I agree about getting settled on the river, but it will be hard to contain the spanish with as small as their food and production boxes are at this level. But might we be able to block the spanish from expanding there altogether?
Edo is about to finish a settler. Can we use it and the horse to block the path of potential spanish expansion? In the picture below, we could build the city at the X (not a bad site anyway!) and place the horse at the H to block that path. We would then have to try to quickly crank out a few warriors from there and Edo to block the northern route by placing units at the "B" locations or something similar. I don't know if we can pull it off, but if we did, it would allow us to settle that river basin at our leisure by preventing the Spanish from moving to the west.
Edit: The horse near Osaka and the one exploring N of kyoto could get to the B locations about the same time as the city founding so we would only need one more warrior to block the northern path (we could replace the horses with warriors as the become available)
Edit 2: I think we could rushbuy the warrior in Edo immediately after completing the settler if we get it out of disorder - once to seed the production box, and another because you cant RB units in disorder. The other alternative is to start the new city where we should get sheilds on the first turn (three if we work the pheasant), then pull the worker off for one turn to restore order and then RB the warrior.
Just a thought...
Edo is about to finish a settler. Can we use it and the horse to block the path of potential spanish expansion? In the picture below, we could build the city at the X (not a bad site anyway!) and place the horse at the H to block that path. We would then have to try to quickly crank out a few warriors from there and Edo to block the northern route by placing units at the "B" locations or something similar. I don't know if we can pull it off, but if we did, it would allow us to settle that river basin at our leisure by preventing the Spanish from moving to the west.
Edit: The horse near Osaka and the one exploring N of kyoto could get to the B locations about the same time as the city founding so we would only need one more warrior to block the northern path (we could replace the horses with warriors as the become available)
Edit 2: I think we could rushbuy the warrior in Edo immediately after completing the settler if we get it out of disorder - once to seed the production box, and another because you cant RB units in disorder. The other alternative is to start the new city where we should get sheilds on the first turn (three if we work the pheasant), then pull the worker off for one turn to restore order and then RB the warrior.
Just a thought...
Kev
Hired Goon
I think that if we can put a blocker on the "H" spot, the city site on the plains just SW of that forest would be a better city site and still block the movement. That spot would also have the pheasant and fish, but would not overlap with Edo. Then we could put a city on the shielded square to the NE of where the horse is now and all the cities could fit with minimum overlap - though the Spanish may get that spot first.
Of course, the Spanish have map making already and could just shoot around with a trireme when they wish...
Of course, the Spanish have map making already and could just shoot around with a trireme when they wish...
TheViking
The world is not enough
2050 BC (0): Rush buy settler in Edo.
2000 BC (1): Edo builds settlers. Civil disorder in Osaka and Edo.
1950 BC (2): Nothing to note.
1900 BC (3): Indians start pyramids.
1850 BC (4): Nothing to note.
1800 BC (5): Spanish found Cordoba (there was a settler there at the end of last turn). Nagoya founded. We are no longer no. 1 in population (we are #2).
1750 BC (6): HBR discovered. Izumo founded. The Spanish have become uncooperative so attempt to make them happier. We get Map Making in exchange for HBR and then give Writing to them. Finally, requesting a gift results in $50 so we are rich
.
1700 BC (7): Nothing to note.
1650 BC (8): Nothing to note.
1600 BC (9): Nagasaki founded.
1550 BC (10): Order restored in Edo, this is so it can start warriors so we can rush buy military stuff there if needed (for example to block then Spanish from expanding).
Not a very eventful set of turns. Unhappiness is a major problem, I decided to allow a few size one cities to stay unhappy until they reach size 2 (they produce food despite the unhappiness). I'm not sure temples solve a lot of problems until we get mysticism.
I went for polytheism instead of mysticism to speed up the rush towards monotheism. After exchanging techs with the Spanish we are again number 1 in science but discovering a tech takes 13 turns so I don't think we have any realistic chances of discovering philosophy before everyone else.
The Spanish are again uncooperative, we probably need to keep giving them something. However, we'll soon run out of techs to give to them. Actually they are so small and undeveloped that our best bet might be to destroy them once we discover polytheism. We do have both map making and writing so maybe we should try sending out a ship to seek new alliances instead.
The fact that the Spanish are uncooperative means they might break the alliance soon. Maybe we should build horsemen in Satsuma to prepare for this possibility. Only one more unit is needed to block the Spanish from expanding west.
Getting the Hanging Gardens would greatly improve the situation so Osaka is building a caravan. Kagoshima is also building a caravan but is distant enough from Kyoto that maybe it should be producing something else.
Old n Slow plays next.
2000 BC (1): Edo builds settlers. Civil disorder in Osaka and Edo.
1950 BC (2): Nothing to note.
1900 BC (3): Indians start pyramids.
1850 BC (4): Nothing to note.
1800 BC (5): Spanish found Cordoba (there was a settler there at the end of last turn). Nagoya founded. We are no longer no. 1 in population (we are #2).
1750 BC (6): HBR discovered. Izumo founded. The Spanish have become uncooperative so attempt to make them happier. We get Map Making in exchange for HBR and then give Writing to them. Finally, requesting a gift results in $50 so we are rich
.1700 BC (7): Nothing to note.
1650 BC (8): Nothing to note.
1600 BC (9): Nagasaki founded.
1550 BC (10): Order restored in Edo, this is so it can start warriors so we can rush buy military stuff there if needed (for example to block then Spanish from expanding).
Not a very eventful set of turns. Unhappiness is a major problem, I decided to allow a few size one cities to stay unhappy until they reach size 2 (they produce food despite the unhappiness). I'm not sure temples solve a lot of problems until we get mysticism.
I went for polytheism instead of mysticism to speed up the rush towards monotheism. After exchanging techs with the Spanish we are again number 1 in science but discovering a tech takes 13 turns so I don't think we have any realistic chances of discovering philosophy before everyone else.
The Spanish are again uncooperative, we probably need to keep giving them something. However, we'll soon run out of techs to give to them. Actually they are so small and undeveloped that our best bet might be to destroy them once we discover polytheism. We do have both map making and writing so maybe we should try sending out a ship to seek new alliances instead.
The fact that the Spanish are uncooperative means they might break the alliance soon. Maybe we should build horsemen in Satsuma to prepare for this possibility. Only one more unit is needed to block the Spanish from expanding west.
Getting the Hanging Gardens would greatly improve the situation so Osaka is building a caravan. Kagoshima is also building a caravan but is distant enough from Kyoto that maybe it should be producing something else.
Old n Slow plays next.
TheViking
The world is not enough
Additional notes:
I think we should build a lot of cities in 'Spain', also this is our only hope of having enough production there if the Spanish break the alliance and sneak attack. The following map shows IMO the highest priority cities to found (the priority order is C1, C2, C3):
The more I think about it the more I think that Nara should rush buy settlers now so we can found a city at C2 five turns from now (if the Spanish do not do it before us). C1 can be founded very soon. It might make sense to build horsemen (or an elephant once we get polytheism) instead of settlers in Satsuma.
The city sites in the west have already been extensively discussed. My only addition to that discussion is that I built Nagoya one square SW of the originally suggested location to maximize its number of river squares and minimize overlap with Izumo.
Nagasaki was founded in one of the suggested sites. However, it will probably soon be necessary to discuss this again since (A) I founded Nagoya in a different place (B) Nagasaki has been founded (C) We should give attention to expanding north, there are many great city sites there. (D) We should found cities somewhere S/SW of Nagoya and Izumo (E) There is a nice city site SW of Kyoto and W/WNW of Osaka (F) Add something here, our TODO list is infinite.
Finally a potentially major problem: We are extremely vulnerable to possible barbarian attacks.
I think we should build a lot of cities in 'Spain', also this is our only hope of having enough production there if the Spanish break the alliance and sneak attack. The following map shows IMO the highest priority cities to found (the priority order is C1, C2, C3):
The more I think about it the more I think that Nara should rush buy settlers now so we can found a city at C2 five turns from now (if the Spanish do not do it before us). C1 can be founded very soon. It might make sense to build horsemen (or an elephant once we get polytheism) instead of settlers in Satsuma.
The city sites in the west have already been extensively discussed. My only addition to that discussion is that I built Nagoya one square SW of the originally suggested location to maximize its number of river squares and minimize overlap with Izumo.
Nagasaki was founded in one of the suggested sites. However, it will probably soon be necessary to discuss this again since (A) I founded Nagoya in a different place (B) Nagasaki has been founded (C) We should give attention to expanding north, there are many great city sites there. (D) We should found cities somewhere S/SW of Nagoya and Izumo (E) There is a nice city site SW of Kyoto and W/WNW of Osaka (F) Add something here, our TODO list is infinite
.Finally a potentially major problem: We are extremely vulnerable to possible barbarian attacks.
Cool. Some IPRB should help getting units built. I agree that we shoud plan on wiping them out while we can. Perhaps gift them what we have if they get worse (and of course asking for gifts
) then try and take them out.We are almost half way done with Colossus and a caravan, is that our default choice if we don't get Pottery discovered in time for HG?
TheViking
The world is not enough
I completely forgot that we haven't discovered pottery 
I should have started researching pottery instead of polytheism
If we haven't discovered pottery when we are about to complete the colossus I think we should shut down production in Kyoto until we either get pottery, monotheism or are for some reason forced to build something in Kyoto. Or possibly build Marco Polo which IMO is much more important than the Colossus in this type of game, also Kyoto isn't a good site for the Colossus.
Agreed, if we need to build something there, MP seems the better choice. But, since we can easily hold back the caravans, we might be able to start another wonder elsewhere that helps us out more. . . . ?
Kev
Hired Goon
Are we still considering the possibility of getting to philosophy first? We might get a chance to take pottery or even monotheism if we do.
I agree with the Spanish idea where their death is concerned. We can start a few military units nearby and switch them to elephants once we have poly. Not much in the way of anything will stand up to them until pikemen come online. While they are not the best-placed cities in the world (surprise), the extra cities could speed our expansion further as well.
Perhaps if we crush Madrid first and leave them without a capital we can also look to buy a unit or two cheaply from the spanish (a settler would be nice).
Agree with starting another wonder somewhere else soon. I have a sinking feeling that the wonder race is going to heat up a lot more and end a lot quicker...
I agree with the Spanish idea where their death is concerned. We can start a few military units nearby and switch them to elephants once we have poly. Not much in the way of anything will stand up to them until pikemen come online. While they are not the best-placed cities in the world (surprise), the extra cities could speed our expansion further as well.
Perhaps if we crush Madrid first and leave them without a capital we can also look to buy a unit or two cheaply from the spanish (a settler would be nice).
Agree with starting another wonder somewhere else soon. I have a sinking feeling that the wonder race is going to heat up a lot more and end a lot quicker...
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
Before we go jumping into a war with spain, remember that with the AI's small production box, they probably have tons of units, and they probably have barracks in most of their cities already. Waging war would be very risky with just non-vet Ellies. If we go that route, we probably need some barracks as well.
Kev
Hired Goon
True enough, but with so many units and getting crankier by the minute, they will likely nix our alliance anyway and start things themselves. At least we can try to take them (or at least disable them) when we have ellies up against their phalanx or warriors. Hopefully we get poly quick enough so they can only send horsies out as their offense. When they get their own ellies, we might be in some deep poop.
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
Yes. Elephants are good at making that!
Actually, this is my concern. They could get either Polytheism (capturing one of our cities) or Feudalism (pikemen) pretty quickly and stop us cold. I think if we can just hold them off, our power will fall enough behind that they will take pity on us.
Then again, I'm generally chicken about this sort of thing.
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
After loading up the file, here are a few miscellaneous thoughts...
We're so close to blocking the way, I'd rush another unit quickly to keep the spanish bottled up. I'd probably use use Izumo since it already has sheilds in the production box, then the horse can move up to complete the northern blockade.
Our None settler became a city?
Nagasaki should work fish instead of silk - same beakers, but grows to size 2 to end disorder sooner.
Kagoshima - That settler could road one of those grassland sheild squares to get some trade or work the fish to get an extra beaker (but less sheilds)
Somewhere (Satsuma?) we could build a diplomat to get an embassy with the spanish so we know what they have and what they're doing (unless MPE is imminent)
The AI's are often slow to get philosophy so we still have a realistic chance of getting there first.
We're so close to blocking the way, I'd rush another unit quickly to keep the spanish bottled up. I'd probably use use Izumo since it already has sheilds in the production box, then the horse can move up to complete the northern blockade.
Our None settler became a city?
Nagasaki should work fish instead of silk - same beakers, but grows to size 2 to end disorder sooner.
Kagoshima - That settler could road one of those grassland sheild squares to get some trade or work the fish to get an extra beaker (but less sheilds)
Somewhere (Satsuma?) we could build a diplomat to get an embassy with the spanish so we know what they have and what they're doing (unless MPE is imminent)
The AI's are often slow to get philosophy so we still have a realistic chance of getting there first.
Kev
Hired Goon
Wasn't me. Swear.
Excellent idea. Out of curiosity has anyone found any increase in good will with the AI if there is an embassy established with them?
TheViking
The world is not enough
I suspect I inadvertently may have become a mole in this game by both forgetting to research pottery and also by accidentally using a NONE-settler to found a city.Originally posted by Kev
Wasn't me. Swear.
But researching polytheism instead of pottery has its merits though.
Regarding the wonder race the Indians are building the pyramids. I received no further messages about the AI civs building wonders. Did anyone else receive such messages ?
Old n Slow
Emperor
Aaaannnnd we're back -- any last thoughts before I tickle Murphy & ruin the string of good luck (and forget the barbarian repellant?)
TheViking
The world is not enough
I agree with the idea of starting a second wonder somewhere (we are lucky to have had the chance to start any wonder at all ).
Our resources are extremely limited but it might be a good idea to start preparing sending a trireme+dip somewhere, especially if we do not build MP. Acquiring pottery from the AI would be great. Also if we do not build MP maybe an embassy in Spain (although it might be a waste of resources if we destroy the Spanish once we get polytheism).
).Our resources are extremely limited but it might be a good idea to start preparing sending a trireme+dip somewhere, especially if we do not build MP. Acquiring pottery from the AI would be great. Also if we do not build MP maybe an embassy in Spain (although it might be a waste of resources if we destroy the Spanish once we get polytheism).
