DEITY CHALLENGE - aiming for sub 200T cultural victory

[Hammer Rabbi]

I will try this. Have to work my way up to deity first though. One CV at a time will be my process. Starting on king win a CV on each difficulty in below 200 turns then move to the next difficulty.

the key here is not using Sacred Sites as the method of victory. that has been done on Deity and is commonly viewed as either a "cheap" kind of win or not intended to be a valid method. either way, this is meant to be a non-SS cultural victory. also, there is the assumption of standard settings, 8 civs/16 CSs with non-cooked maps or special settings like Policy Saving.

im with others in that trying this at lower diffs adds more difficulty to it. maybe start at Immortal and see how you do.

 

[Acken]

the key here is not using Sacred Sites as the method of victory. that has been done on Deity and is commonly viewed as either a "cheap" kind of win or not intended to be a valid method. either way, this is meant to be a non-SS cultural victory. also, there is the assumption of standard settings, 8 civs/16 CSs with non-cooked maps or special settings like Policy Saving.

im with others in that trying this at lower diffs adds more difficulty to it. maybe start at Immortal and see how you do.

Can't disagree more and for proof I'm pretty sure we have GotM games on continents at King/Prince with people winning a CV without SS before T200.

If I remember right, a Greece game on continent on King. Greece being far from the best at CV and the map being subpar even strengthen the argument.

Edit: Digging it up it was TSG90 and while I'm incorrect that some winner had it without SS, some people have played it a second time without SS and got sub200.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Can't disagree more and for proof I'm pretty sure we have GotM games on continents at King/Prince with people winning a CV without SS before T200.

If I remember right, a Greece game on continent on King. Greece being far from the best at CV and the map being subpar even strengthen the argument.

Edit: Digging it up it was TSG90 and while I'm incorrect that some winner had it without SS, some people have played it a second time without SS and got sub200.

oh, okay. i didnt remember that anyone did sub200 without SS. thanks. i'll go check out that thread again.

i also dont remember if anyone here thought that total domination minus 1 civ and hanging around for the civ victory was also considered fine to do. less civs to pressure, etc. if that is considered kosher, then i'd guess another Egypt horse archer rush would suffice here. i do know domination at earlier eras are less warmonger-punitive giving that strategy a bump as a means to sub200 CV. but im not too experienced in this since the patch so its just guessing.

 

[Acken]

oh, okay. i didnt remember that anyone did sub200 without SS. thanks. i'll go check out that thread again.

i also dont remember if anyone here thought that total domination minus 1 civ and hanging around for the civ victory was also considered fine to do. less civs to pressure, etc. if that is considered kosher, then i'd guess another Egypt horse archer rush would suffice here. i do know domination at earlier eras are less warmonger-punitive giving that strategy a bump as a means to sub200 CV. but im not too experienced in this since the patch so its just guessing.

OP asks for no domination/conquest but if it's available then yes it's faster to win CV with some civ killing, especially on lower levels due to the cheap investment.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

Edit: Digging it up it was TSG90 and while I'm incorrect that some winner had it without SS, some people have played it a second time without SS and got sub200.

Funny you didn't remember, as you were the winner!

I didn't play this GOTM but read AAR and in fact in replay Uralis got better result than you using intresting peacefully futurism strategy.

He won in 174T, and from his screenshot we can see that on this turn his culture runaway on king difficulty had 3857 culture.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13350900&postcount=26

Luckily I have save on my laptop from my recent Brazil deity game from the same turn. My culture runaway on this turn had 13 425 culture - 3.5*more than from his game!

If after that someone still think sub 200T culture victory on deity is easier to achieve than on eg. king I give up really don't know what to say

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i also just looked at the thread and uralis' t174 victory. the file he linked to has been removed so i couldnt access the saves he linked (not to mention navigating russian website i dont understand) and i didnt see that anyone else looked to 'verify' his win. in theory i can believe it, but there was less explanation than desired.

i'll concede that he did it without SS and peaceful but im still skeptical since i havent seen any saves to look at.

edit: but based on the runaway Culture discrepancy from King (~3500) to Deity (~13500) on the same turn (t174), I now can see what IronfighterXXX is referring to. higher diff wouldnt necessarily make this one easier.

 

[Acken]

glory7 also replayed this map and got a win at 190 but he didn't provide proof. But tbh I'll believe him on that. As shown by Ironfighter there is a huge difference in cultural output so winning with simple hotel + archeology is far from a stretch. And all this was done with Alexander, Brazil has it even easier.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

glory7 also replayed this map and got a win at 190 but he didn't provide proof. But tbh I'll believe him on that. As shown by Ironfighter there is a huge difference in cultural output so winning with simple hotel + archeology is far from a stretch. And all this was done with Alexander, Brazil has it even easier.

i think glory7's was a replay with Tradition 3-city instead of liberty. i dunno if that included any domination or if it still included his delayed SS-tactic til after astronomy. i also trust his abilities too but his posts were short and he never updated the details.

the holy grail of proof is an LP with no tech difficulties (time lapses of turns or crashes). i realize that would be tedious and/or problematic to get it done with no hiccups. but one can dream, haha.

 

[tommynt]

i might start somethng today - my 1. roll an great plains gave me decent land allready

 

[59saintdane]

What civ will you be playing as?

 

[tpac]

Fast peaceful cultural victories on emperor and below are pretty easy IMHO - you can basically just wonder whore + cultural heritage sites + hotels (plus the standard cultural victory bits) and you are done - you don't even need to get to internet or great musician bomb.

Higher levels are a whole different ball game, as the AI will get a lot of the wonders, which ends up adding up culturally for them.

 

[consentient]

OK so I chose a dream start, Poland as the civ, EVERYTHING went my way, didn't need to build any military, FPT quickly over 100, allied all CS, went with Tommynt's mixed Trad-Lib and tried for the fastest possible CV on Emperor. It was 10 turns slower than my average for Deity.

[EDIT: I appreciate that I'm not the best player, but I'm comparing with my own experience. In fact, the Deity CV wins I had were quite hard-fought apart from one with Sweden, and I've improved as a player. So what I'm saying is that I don't believe CV wins can be earlier on Emperor than Deity. It just takes so much longer to tech.]

[EDIT 2: I got almost every Wonder in the game except for maybe 2 or 3 of the 'normal' ones, plus the ones I couldn't get because I didn't open Honor, Piety or Commerce.]

 

[bigwillystyle]

My own experience is a bit different. Simply because I just can't get some of the critical wonders on Deity, but I can on Immortal and below.

That said, you're a better player than me.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

Details later

 

[IronfighterXXX]

My own experience is a bit different. Simply because I just can't get some of the critical wonders on Deity, but I can on Immortal and below.

Just don't listen to him, he obviously has no clue what he is talking about.

In other thread he claims DOMINATION victory is faster on higher difficulty levels

 

[Acken]

I was pretty sure it wouldn't take as long as the science one. Well done. You really should make a LP or two of your games.

OK so I chose a dream start, Poland as the civ, EVERYTHING went my way, didn't need to build any military, FPT quickly over 100, allied all CS, went with Tommynt's mixed Trad-Lib and tried for the fastest possible CV on Emperor. It was 10 turns slower than my average for Deity.

[EDIT: I appreciate that I'm not the best player, but I'm comparing with my own experience. In fact, the Deity CV wins I had were quite hard-fought apart from one with Sweden, and I've improved as a player. So what I'm saying is that I don't believe CV wins can be earlier on Emperor than Deity. It just takes so much longer to tech.]

[EDIT 2: I got almost every Wonder in the game except for maybe 2 or 3 of the 'normal' ones, plus the ones I couldn't get because I didn't open Honor, Piety or Commerce.]

There's a possibility that it takes longer to tech to Internet. But in theory you can win before internet on Emperor and below. So while teching is somewhat slower on Emperor, the fact that the AI has one fourth of Deity culture makes an hotel win way more likely. That's also why you take Brazil rather than Poland for such a goal.

 

[Sessy]

if you can choose opponents and pick war heavy AIs, then put them against each other, it's possible to win before T200 simply because they're not generating enough culture that AIs do (shoshone, ethiopia etc.)
can someone please explain why great plains is an easier map to do stuff?

 

[Acken]

It's really easy to meet everyone every-CS and it's easy to get great land (mountain + river).

Pangeas have potential to be better but that requires more luck (coastal, mountain, river, salts), great plains are fairly consistent the mountain area being always irrigated by water.

 

[consentient]

Details later

Congratulations. Looks like you had pretty good dirt for it. Desert hills, mountain, river, space for expos. Nonetheless, if this is Deity, then hat off to you.

Just don't listen to him, he obviously has no clue what he is talking about.

In other thread he claims DOMINATION victory is faster on higher difficulty levels

Listen, Mr. Fighter, you have misunderstood me. That's your problem. But even if I did have "no clue", then there is no reason to be quite so rude about it in a public forum such as this, is there?

 

[IronfighterXXX]

But even if I did have "no clue", then there is no reason to be quite so rude about it in a public forum such as this, is there?

Well, actually you are right, but we are on forum called 'civfanatics', game is over four years old and you are host so called deity 'challenges' so people may require some knowledge about game from you.

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