TheGrumpyBuddha
King
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 834
DEITY CHALLENGE - aiming for sub 200T victory
- Thread starter IronfighterXXX
- Start date
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 834
For what it's worth, I replayed my Inca map and managed to get Petra this time. Still, city size is so small early on that I didn't get Education until turn 115, and even with the rush growth from the setup I didn't win an SV until turn 252.
A respectable win, one of my best (I rarely open Plastics before turn 210, and it was turn 200 this time, and I had 5 GS and Rationalism finisher/Oxford all left to work with) but ...
I am thinking this is going to require a crazy turn 40 NC with an awesome city/4 or 5 stolen workers/somehow still no war risk. OR, an early rush on an AI where you capture some quality cities with an asston of fresh new luxes, get your peak science up fast.
Aztec with a mountain/jungle/lake setup might work ...
A respectable win, one of my best (I rarely open Plastics before turn 210, and it was turn 200 this time, and I had 5 GS and Rationalism finisher/Oxford all left to work with) but ...
I am thinking this is going to require a crazy turn 40 NC with an awesome city/4 or 5 stolen workers/somehow still no war risk. OR, an early rush on an AI where you capture some quality cities with an asston of fresh new luxes, get your peak science up fast.
Aztec with a mountain/jungle/lake setup might work ...
Definitely the way to go. Thorak still has the best HoF SV at 221 turns with aztec/lakes. I've submitted a few myself but can't get close to his turns. But man if you could find the right map with 4-6 mountain spots next to a river or lake with a good 2-4 lake tiles close to most of them each you'd have some crazy amount of bpt if you can manage the happiness
Saw this thread and decided to give it a shot. Always play with legendary start and allow policy saving so it's not 100% legit but still a feat imo
I play Sejong and my strategy is pretty simple. 3 coastal cities with maxed growth. Managed plastics a few turns after turn 140 and had the labs up and running in all three cities a couple of turns after turn 150. From there on it was smooth sailing to science victory at turn 196. Was a bit worried about maintaining happiness with Order but it went well. I pretty much only play this way and I've had wins between 213-230 before. Was also very lucky as I ONLY got Great Scientists until the very end when I got two engineers who hurried two of my spaceship parts. 5 academies in total close to the capital and bulbed 4-5 techs. Got lucky with the spawn too as capital was on river with mountain next to it. Found two more coastal mountains for the other two cities pretty fast. City #2 was up around turn 40 and #3 around turn 55. #3 was also on a river. Fun challenge all in all even though i 'cheated'.
I don't agree with those who say that research agreements aren't worth it. They saved me MANY turns. But yeah - only do RA with the top dogs. I've tried with more cities too, but it slows down progress and I always end up with happiness problems. 3 cities will generate between 900-1100 science without the science boost from Order. Sure, more cities would probably generate more science but it would take longer to get there and you also need to have more troops to defend them. Anyway. Good luck and thanks for the thread!
I play Sejong and my strategy is pretty simple. 3 coastal cities with maxed growth. Managed plastics a few turns after turn 140 and had the labs up and running in all three cities a couple of turns after turn 150. From there on it was smooth sailing to science victory at turn 196. Was a bit worried about maintaining happiness with Order but it went well. I pretty much only play this way and I've had wins between 213-230 before. Was also very lucky as I ONLY got Great Scientists until the very end when I got two engineers who hurried two of my spaceship parts. 5 academies in total close to the capital and bulbed 4-5 techs. Got lucky with the spawn too as capital was on river with mountain next to it. Found two more coastal mountains for the other two cities pretty fast. City #2 was up around turn 40 and #3 around turn 55. #3 was also on a river. Fun challenge all in all even though i 'cheated'.
I don't agree with those who say that research agreements aren't worth it. They saved me MANY turns. But yeah - only do RA with the top dogs. I've tried with more cities too, but it slows down progress and I always end up with happiness problems. 3 cities will generate between 900-1100 science without the science boost from Order. Sure, more cities would probably generate more science but it would take longer to get there and you also need to have more troops to defend them. Anyway. Good luck and thanks for the thread!
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Acken
Deity
Yes but you played on QUICK hehe 
(according to your time date)
That corresponds to T294 on standard (which is what OP wants, sub 200 on STANDARD)
(and yes legendary and policy savings aren't allowed).
(according to your time date)That corresponds to T294 on standard (which is what OP wants, sub 200 on STANDARD)
(and yes legendary and policy savings aren't allowed).
Acken
Deity
Well not exactly but approximately yes. All quick costs and time frame are 2/3 of Standard.
well, i guess 1400 AD is t200 in standard. what is its equivalent on Quick speed?
hehe, i meant when is 1400 AD equivalent in Quick turns? as Acken said, roughly 2/3 of standard speed is the translation and should indeed mean t132/133 as you said.
what are the game years for Quick t132? what is the Quick speed turn for 1400AD?
ive only played standard except for maybe 10 non-standard efforts just out of curiosity.
what are the game years for Quick t132? what is the Quick speed turn for 1400AD?
ive only played standard except for maybe 10 non-standard efforts just out of curiosity.
How about this as a possible scenario. Lets say you play a map as Spain where your settler starts 6 tiles away (which seems to be as close as you can get a city in range of a Natural Wonder...) from a coastal river hill tile, adjacent mountain with the Great Barrier Reef on your second city ring. There will be a range of resource tiles including salt, fish, wheat and deer.
There are 3-4 other good spots for settling cities all with unique luxuries on river,hill,mountain tiles with access to 2 more natural wonders; (I say 2 and not 3 because I can't see there being more than 3 wonders in reasonable distance to one Civ). These wonders could be King Solomon's Mines, Krakatoa, El Dorado or Fountain of Youth.
I won't say Lake Victoria as I highly believe that that much growth in a 2nd city early would put you quickly in unhappyness unless you had Fountain of Youth. King Solomon's Mines would provide a real boost to hammers which I feel would allow it to become the default military and Wonder city that allows your other cities to focus heavily on science specialists.
These cities would also have a decent amount of jungle tiles in their 2nd and 3rd rings allowing for a lot of science to be generated once universities are reached.
I would tend to put my money on Fountain of Youth as a second or third city site for this simple reason, the GBR will give you 1000 gold immediately which will allow you to plant 2 more cities but that would plunge you immediately into crippling unhappiness but if you can get a spot with the FoY then you should be able to get 4 cities out within the first 20 turns I would assume yeah (you would need to develop luxuries soon though as 3 more cities will eat up most of that 20 happiness). Lets say it takes 3 turns to move a settler to the GBR & on the 4th turn you settle (as the Random Map Generator will not start you on a Wonder). You have 2 production from the city hill tile and extra production from the GBR so you can get 2 scouts out within 6 turns? You scout the other 2 Natural Wonders, and by now you have settlers (paid for by GBR) already moving to settle those 2 wonders (1 being the FoY). The happiness and extra gold allows you to snag 1 more city site so you theoretically have you're 4 cities out by turn 20? I think at this point you probably have about 500 gold left out of the 2000 you found from discovering 3 wonders (1000 from GBR, 500 from FoY, 500 from 3rd Wonder). However I think this gold is best spent on an early worker to start developing those cities & luxuries as fast as possible. Possibly you can hard-build another settler for a 5th city if you can calculate sufficient happiness but that is a risk.
With GBR in the capital I'll assume you can safely get some wonders (Temple of Artemis, Oracle (a must for free policy and GS point) and MoH (only after ToA) for extra gold. Not sure about Great Library (it's still a risk as you have to get it by approximately turn 22 and you already lose 3 turns just getting to your city site with the GBR).
Assuming you can grow fast and stay happy you can get National College quite quickly and you should be able to beat AI to renaissance and get the Leaning Tower and from there quickly beeline to Observatories, Schools & Research Labs...
So, has anyone tried making a map and testing this? It may breach the normal rules to make a map like this but such a start is not impossible in the Random Map Generator (It's extremely unlikely, probably akin to winning the lottery but not impossible)so what happens if you get 3 of the most powerful natural wonders & 4 really poweful starting positions to quickly settle as a Civ like Spain?
There are 3-4 other good spots for settling cities all with unique luxuries on river,hill,mountain tiles with access to 2 more natural wonders; (I say 2 and not 3 because I can't see there being more than 3 wonders in reasonable distance to one Civ). These wonders could be King Solomon's Mines, Krakatoa, El Dorado or Fountain of Youth.
I won't say Lake Victoria as I highly believe that that much growth in a 2nd city early would put you quickly in unhappyness unless you had Fountain of Youth. King Solomon's Mines would provide a real boost to hammers which I feel would allow it to become the default military and Wonder city that allows your other cities to focus heavily on science specialists.
These cities would also have a decent amount of jungle tiles in their 2nd and 3rd rings allowing for a lot of science to be generated once universities are reached.
I would tend to put my money on Fountain of Youth as a second or third city site for this simple reason, the GBR will give you 1000 gold immediately which will allow you to plant 2 more cities but that would plunge you immediately into crippling unhappiness but if you can get a spot with the FoY then you should be able to get 4 cities out within the first 20 turns I would assume yeah (you would need to develop luxuries soon though as 3 more cities will eat up most of that 20 happiness). Lets say it takes 3 turns to move a settler to the GBR & on the 4th turn you settle (as the Random Map Generator will not start you on a Wonder). You have 2 production from the city hill tile and extra production from the GBR so you can get 2 scouts out within 6 turns? You scout the other 2 Natural Wonders, and by now you have settlers (paid for by GBR) already moving to settle those 2 wonders (1 being the FoY). The happiness and extra gold allows you to snag 1 more city site so you theoretically have you're 4 cities out by turn 20? I think at this point you probably have about 500 gold left out of the 2000 you found from discovering 3 wonders (1000 from GBR, 500 from FoY, 500 from 3rd Wonder). However I think this gold is best spent on an early worker to start developing those cities & luxuries as fast as possible. Possibly you can hard-build another settler for a 5th city if you can calculate sufficient happiness but that is a risk.
With GBR in the capital I'll assume you can safely get some wonders (Temple of Artemis, Oracle (a must for free policy and GS point) and MoH (only after ToA) for extra gold. Not sure about Great Library (it's still a risk as you have to get it by approximately turn 22 and you already lose 3 turns just getting to your city site with the GBR).
Assuming you can grow fast and stay happy you can get National College quite quickly and you should be able to beat AI to renaissance and get the Leaning Tower and from there quickly beeline to Observatories, Schools & Research Labs...
So, has anyone tried making a map and testing this? It may breach the normal rules to make a map like this but such a start is not impossible in the Random Map Generator (It's extremely unlikely, probably akin to winning the lottery but not impossible)so what happens if you get 3 of the most powerful natural wonders & 4 really poweful starting positions to quickly settle as a Civ like Spain?
Acken
Deity
What do you mean what happens ? If you cook your start enough for Spain you can get breaking time yes.
Sorry what I meant was a cooked start but one that is still theoretically possible to get with the Random Map Generator, so its not strickly speaking cheating (unless you want to restart a map 100,000s of times to get such a start) but purely to demonstrate if its possible to get a sub-200 turn SV.
phillipwyllie
Wannabe Deity
Could you post the map please?
I've rolled GBR and Krakatoa in settling range of Madrid once before. If you wanted to add Eldorado somewhere else you should have the optimum starting conditions, assuming the dirt isn't crap.
Acken
Deity
Well yeah Spain with a wonder per city is probably crazy ^^
As for whether or not sub 200 is a possibility, it certainly is. I was able to get a 207 victory with Korea on gotm tsg89. Although it was a replay and on Immortal, the map is imperfect so I'd expect a cooked map to cut down 8 turns.
I'll probably try it with IGE.
SDEngineer
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2010
- Messages
- 31
I don't think multiple wonders is required. Just the GBR with a coast/hills/mtn city location where your initial city also starts with a hills/mtn location is most likely all you will need.
My best time so far has been T235 with a lucky, but completely honest start (though with legendary start on) exactly as above - and I wasn't even optimizing for a SV until about T150 (didn't realize just how OP that start made me until I realized how far behind I was leaving the AI). Someone who did full optimization from the very beginning could easily have shaved 20-30 or more turns off (I wasted a lot of time building some unnecessary stuff, took a lot of tech tree detours, and never used food caravans/cargo ships to explode my population).
Basically, if you find the GBR fast enough, you can have a 2nd city working the GBR before turn 10 - that's 8 science, 8 food, 4 gold, and 4 production from a size 2 city. This will make Babylon's tech progress seem very slow - you've basically got more science coming out by turn 10 than Babylon does by turn 20 or so when his GS pops, and the rest of the GBR stats make the city into a growth & production monster right from the start.
IIRC, I just used the cash from the GBR for the 2nd city settler + a worker to start improving tiles + buying the GBR and connecting tiles, since I didn't want to go into unhappiness hell.
