Deity Challenge - HRE

[futurehermit]

Shows why philosophical is such a strong trait in the higher levels...

 

[Gumbolt]

Also what a strong GP farm can do for you. Philosophical is only strong if you use it well. A library 2 scientist city early on in any game can be huge. not checked if he did this here. Although HRE does not have Phil. trait.

 

[ABigCivFan]

ABCF

Spoiler :

Nice job on getting that philosophy trading going. This man is more powerful because of the greater number of AI's available for trading. But didn't you have to suffer some -4 demerits for trading with some worst enemies here?

Spoiler :

Yes, I checked the diplo carefully prior to trading; Brennus is worst enermy with Mensa and Liz, so I held off any trading with Brennus until the last trade. The result is I got Civil Service/Theology from Brennus 2 essential techs while incuring a -1 "you ve traded with our worst enemy" with Mensa and Liz. But I later swithed to Jewish and they are both pleased, so no big harm done.

Also the fact I only had ~100 beakers for a very long time requires aggressive tech trading.

 

[futurehermit]

Also what a strong GP farm can do for you. Philosophical is only strong if you use it well. A library 2 scientist city early on in any game can be huge. not checked if he did this here. Although HRE does not have Phil. trait.

I was just making a general comment, not saying that HRE is philosophical. The key of philosophical here that I am talking about is not about the # of GP generated, but rather the SPEED of the GP generation. If a philosophical leader has a gpfarm and a non-philosophical leader has a gpfarm, the philosophical leader is going to get them EARLIER, especially the 2nd and 3rd ones, meaning you get those key tech trades earlier, meaning you can leverage them earlier, etc.

 

[Dirk1302]

Double post

 

[Dirk1302]

Apart from the early academy i think the main strength of philosophical is that you don't really need a gpp farm early. Just run some scientists early, later some more under pacifism/caste in multiple cities.Make sure every city spawns one so as not to waste gpp points and you will drown in gp's.

 

[Snaaty]

@ ABC:

If you would have chopwhipped some walls with stone and with the prot trait, you would have been able to research at 100% all along the game in addition to your excellent trading

Some basic math about the gold you can generate that way, when your city is generating 10 hammers and you chop 4 forests and you are missing 10 hammers on the wall when doing this, adding the whip, without having math:

90 + 60 + 60 + 60 + 60 + 30 - 10 - 40 = 310 gold and 40 hammers overflow

with math:

430 gold and 40 hammers

...

with math and 8 forests (you have a lot of spare forests):
790 gold and 40 hammers

...

Charly is the best leader for this btw, because of the cheap settlers and the many cities=forests you can have. If you additionally use the settler overflow to accelerate your workers, you should also have the needed workers to do 6-8 forest chops in parallel...

...

with forests, prot really shines

 

[Halt]

Hahahahaha. Deity is a bit of an exception, IMO .

Probably still doable vs civs w/o iron on marathon. As if the super-sized AIs on deity are ever lacking in resources...

Great minds think alike! hehe....

 

[Gumbolt]

I was just making a general comment, not saying that HRE is philosophical.

I know. I just like making points about GP farms to drum it into other players.

So kids if you want Santa to visit next year. Remember to always build a good GP farm.

 

[Gumbolt]

Great minds think alike! hehe....

Never encourage a warmonger. Look what Alexander and Khan did to the world!!!!

 

[ABigCivFan]

@ ABC:

If you would have chopwhipped some walls with stone and with the prot trait, you would have been able to research at 100% all along the game in addition to your excellent trading

Some basic math about the gold you can generate that way, when your city is generating 10 hammers and you chop 4 forests and you are missing 10 hammers on the wall when doing this, adding the whip, without having math:

90 + 60 + 60 + 60 + 60 + 30 - 10 - 40 = 310 gold and 40 hammers overflow

with math:

430 gold and 40 hammers

...

with math and 8 forests (you have a lot of spare forests):
790 gold and 40 hammers

...

Charly is the best leader for this btw, because of the cheap settlers and the many cities=forests you can have. If you additionally use the settler overflow to accelerate your workers, you should also have the needed workers to do 6-8 forest chops in parallel...

...

with forests, prot really shines

I admit I have not used the Protective Wall hammer overflow trick. I was planning to chop the trees for infras, especially cultural improving ones. This map is hammer poor in the early eras, and we are right in the middle of everyone making cultural fight so much more intense, I am losing good tiles and resources at an alarming rate ATM. Also I thought the wall hammer overflow is nerfed already?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Also I thought the wall hammer overflow is nerfed already?

I don't think so... and I hope it will stay that way

 

[futurehermit]

Can someone explain the hammer overflow wall trick or send me to a relevant thread?
thx

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Can someone explain the hammer overflow wall trick or send me to a relevant thread?
thx

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218229&highlight=protective+wall+exploit&page=2

This thread explains the mechanism

 

[brianb1974]

How do you unpause the game as it's paused in the init save? I've never paused before.

 

[Turinturambar]

brian hit the pause button on oyur keyboard.

I play this as well, it's a really fascinating map.

Semi-spoilers:

Spoiler :

The philo trade would not have worked in my game though as an AI founded taoism in 775BC. Tech pace is absolutely incredible, I'm 5th in research researching plastics in 1560 AD with 1,1k beakers/turn.

 

[futurehermit]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218229&highlight=protective+wall+exploit&page=2

This thread explains the mechanism

thx, much obliged.

 

[obsolete]

Some basic math about the gold you can generate that way, when your city is generating 10 hammers and you chop 4 forests and you are missing 10 hammers on the wall when doing this, adding the whip, without having math:

90 + 60 + 60 + 60 + 60 + 30 - 10 - 40 = 310 gold and 40 hammers overflow

with math:

430 gold and 40 hammers

Snaaty, I believe he is playing Normal Speed.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Amazing map...

Update to 1480AD:

Spoiler :

125AD: Hammu DOWs me! He has been WHTOOH for a few turns. I quickly start to whipping protective LBs in all cities, so glad I got that Feudalism trade with Sal a few turns ago. I have no metal, and can only rely on LBs in a defensive war.




325AD: Asoka won Liberalism. Hammu is really keeping the heat on me, sending large SODs into my land. He is concentrating on my border city Mintz, which has corn, and contesting for his Iron. Corn allowed me to whip LB every 2-3 turns, I am running Buear+Theo for war effort.




520AD: The war drags on, my entrenched LBs was able to held on behind walls. This is when Imperial/Protective at its best: super defenders + fast GGs + cheap walls/castles.

I used my first GG Sun Tze as a super defender specialist, promoting down the CG and Drill line.




580AD: The Fortress. Sun Tze reached CG3+Drill4 and several LBs reached CG3+Drill2 for reduced collateral, Hammu is bringing in bunch of Cats and Trebs.
The war slowed down everything, but i managed to research and fight a defensive war at the same time.




580AD: This is what all the heavy whipping did to Mainz. 48 turns of cruelty period. Since it has corn, and can borrow the pig, my plan is to eventually built Globe here to erase the unhappy.




820AD: The war gave me 3 GGs. 1 as a GG defender, 1 settled in capital, 1 waiting in capital for a Mil Academy. So I took to opportunity to bribe Hammu into peace after getting Gunpower, it is either this tech or Mainz.



1060AD: During this who period, i had gone down the Guild/Chemistry line to improve workshops as i need hammers badly. After Chemistry it is Constitution/Democracy.

This is my 6 city empire view, Besides the Military conflict, i had to fight off culture pressure from 4 AIs, so hammers are so important.

Build Castle everywhere.




1100AD: Capital. I had converted it to be a cottage Oxford Burea SSC. Thanks to the 2 corns, it is able to grow fast and work all the grass cottages and some workshops. I also put the HE here during the war since it is by far the best hammer city with Burea bonus, and later will add Levee. so Burea bonus are well applied to both the Oxford/beakers and HE/War hammers. A Truely mixed purpose city given a small empire. This capital produces more than 60% of the beakers during peace time and more than 50% of the hammers during war time.




1100AD: Swithed to Representation+Caste, finally get the NE GP farm start working. Plan is to use this 3rd GS to start a GA, and during which:

1. Rush res Democracy
2. Switch to Pacifism to rush another GP for shrine and GS for an Academy in capital
3. Before it ends, switch to US/Burea/Emancipation/FM/OR for more infrus rush and improve fav civics bonues with MM/Hammu/Brennus.




1140AD: Started GA, growing a GP in capital for Tao shrine. Ank Wat helps a little here.




1140AD: GP farm growing GS.




1160AD: Interesting, Saladin and Brennus are still willing to trade. They are the only 2 I could trade anyway, other AIs are far ahead. Now i am going down Steam Power/AL line to improve hammers and prepare for a quick expansion war. I will need more land to compete with run away AIs like Liz and Hammu.




1210AD: 1 turn before GA ends, mass switch civics. And switched to Budda to please Saladin. The gold is to get Sal/Hammu pleased so I could focus on MM or Asoka later.

1480AD: Interesting Diplo develops. The 4 most powerful AIs already entered Defensive Pacts! Liz+Asoka and Hammu+MM.




1480AD: Relations Matrix.




1480AD: worker scouts on MM. 4 turns to artillary.



As we can see from this matrix, I can only utilize Sal and Brennus in war, since my target is either MM/Asoka/Hammu. But they have Def pacts. MM is prob the best target since he is small with 5 well cottaged cities. But I will need to defend his partner Hammu. 2 Deity AIs with monster SODs is not something I could even dream of taking on given my own strength. So I have to somehow come up with a solution to ally Sal/Brennus one way or another...

 

[royal62184]

ABCF,
wow that game looks crazy hard, sandwiched in the middle of all those AIs. I will read in anticipation to see how you win this.