Deity Challenge - Pocatello's New World

[Loucypher]

Greetings, oh Deity challenger. It has been a long time since the last challenge, but this map is definitely worth it. You are Chief Pocatello, leader of one of the best civs around. And today, you'll be tested.

This is a Standard Deity Challenge. Rules are below, and in spoilers is some info about the map that might make things a bit more predictable, so open those tags at your own risk.
For this map, you'll need the Gold Edition + Brave New World. While I do have Scrambled Continents, I have unchecked it before setting up this game, but if it doesn't work, that'll be it.
Here be the rules + settings:
- Deity Level.
- Standard size map.
- 8 Civs in total.
- 16 City states.
- Barbarians are standard.
- Espionage is on.
- Quick movement is by default on (but can be changed).
- Ancient ruins are on. (Don't want to gimp the Shoshone now do we?)
- All victory conditions are enabled.

And now, the spoiler info:

Maptype:

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Terra. That's right, you'll have less room early game then you'd have on, say, Continents or Pangea.

Opponents:

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Montezuma
Oda Nobunaga
Elizabeth
Shaka
Alexander
Bismark
Atilla

And ofcourse, a screenshot of your starting location.

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Now, I for one could not win this map. But I'm not a full-time Deity player, Emperor suits my style better, but sometimes you'll want a challenge. And challenged, you will be.
So. Good luck.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Never played as that Civ.

Starting close to mountain and water can mean it is pretty possible to do the startegic land purchase, the civ UA will of course help with that.
But then its a terra map so it maybe is not worth it, but it is to se.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

That start spot looks really unappealing ...

 

[FaceUnderMask]

No freshwater tiles and no fish/crabs => no reason to go tall here.
Try religion mb? 2xQuarries -> +4 faith.

 

[Teproc]

Interesting. I think I messed up with my capital placement, but I quite like the start actually.

 

[Abraxis]

That start spot looks really unappealing ...

Are you joking? grab piety from turn 20+ hut, grab stone circles and away you go. You could get Halicarnassus or the pyramids at the same time you wanted to.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

No freshwater tiles and no fish/crabs => no reason to go tall here.
Try religion mb? 2xQuarries -> +4 faith.

Except that

1) Going tall is generally better than going wide
2) Going tall is easier than going wide
3) Going wide is harder on Terra because you're usually pretty squished in.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Are you joking? grab piety from turn 20+ hut, grab stone circles and away you go. You could get Halicarnassus or the pyramids at the same time you wanted to.

Two stones do not an awesome start make.

 

[Abraxis]

Two stones do not an awesome start make.

Well I can't really argue that now can I? Well put.

 

[Cromagnus]

Hmm, decisions decisions. Spoiler'd because it discusses the map type.

Spoiler :

Option 1: I see a chance to place my capital on marble with lots of nearby forest... maybe I'll try a GL->t35 NC gambit... stay OCC, beeline Astronomy, and send settlers over. Good chance to colonize the new world without any competition. Although, in BNW, due to happiness issues and the science penalty for going wide, this is somewhat pointless.

Option 2: Take advantage of the crowded continent and go early warmonger rush to eliminate everyone before Astronomy. 2 CB upgrade ruins + one warrior -> early elimination of nearest neighbor. Hmm

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Spoilery map-commentary.

Hmm, decisions decisions. Spoiler'd because it discusses the map type.

Spoiler :

Option 1: I see a chance to place my capital on marble with lots of nearby forest... maybe I'll try a GL->t35 NC gambit... stay OCC, beeline Astronomy, and send settlers over. Good chance to colonize the new world without any competition. Although, in BNW, due to happiness issues and the science penalty for going wide, this is somewhat pointless.

Option 2: Take advantage of the crowded continent and go early warmonger rush to eliminate everyone before Astronomy. 2 CB upgrade ruins + one warrior -> early elimination of nearest neighbor. Hmm

Spoiler :

Back when I played Terra a lot more (and wasn't as good a player) I found that the only way to really expand well was to take a CS early, especially with a NA start (not sure that's what this is). However, I also remember that the luxes were all over the damned place, and you could expect more different ones within a 12-space radius. So that's good.

I may give this a shot or three, I think an early GL would be amazing/really hard, I think I'd lean towards early military-based expansion.

 

[Tabarnak]

Nice map. I decided to give it a go. I'm recording my game right now(no commentaries). I stopped at the turn 100 for my 1st session.

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Pocatello...this civ is all about getting these ruins for the first turns. We start in a corner, so we don't need 3 units to start. 2 can be enough. Started with Pathfinder-shrine-settler-granary-settler.

Typical 3 cities Tradition, NC around the turn 75. Settled 2 more cities. I bribed Zulus and Monty against England at high price(11 gpt each) just before to prevent multi DoWs early on, when i'm still weak. I'm not happy about my scouting. I missed by 1 turn the access to the north part. Monty's city culturally got a tile and blocked the entire way. And i couldn't have access to the west part until later. Had to tech optics just for that.

Poor England...i stole a worker early and reDoWed her to capture a lone settler(she wanted to settle where i wanted. I bribed Greece against Shaka a bit later. I mainly bought workers with extra gold. Bought a settler too. So i'm now with 5 cities and 8 workers. Oda and Monty double DoWed me. Oda is pretty far away so i dont care about him. But i do care about Monty. And i can't open border for now to explore.

I built the Mausoleum of Hicarnacus(or something like that) and Oracle in capital.

When i had to choose a 2nd tree after Tradition, i wanted to go science first. But since it's almost an auto win if i go that route(or diplo) i decided instead to go cultural. Not much vids about cultural victories about deity. I'm not the best cultural player...in fact it's my worst part of game. So i'm challenging myself too.

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[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Gave it a shot, very foolishly

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pseudo-advanced settled on Monte by, god forbid, settling 8 or so spaces away. Not even close enough to get a warning, I got that from England. Anyway, 12+ units swam in on turn 70, so much for that. Probably could have repelled with 2-3 Comp Bows, but neglected to have enough up there because of all the damned barb camps and worrying about Shaka (who I was wise enough to bribe to attack London).

Without Monty I'd have a turn 75 NC, probably, bleah. May give it a shot, I think this is an extremely winnable map, just all about getting those bribes out early. And/or being willing to delay the NC a little longer in order to get more Comp Bows at the borders.

 

[kb27787]

My game is looking OK so far t160 in...

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Having heard of aggressive neighbors, I was thinking I would not expand early and let AI claim whatever land they want... so if I'm stuck on one city, I had to find myself a mountain so founded on turn 8 or so... so my growth is a little stunted... still, the deer and wheat tiles should catch me up nicely with granary (abusing the UA to get 3rd ring tiles) this is a nice spot with lots of wood. Stole two workers from Shaka and built one by chopping, and Lizzy rescued me by expanding between us.

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Monty appeared on the map, forward settling HER... oh Lizzy, if your pathetic little programmed brain had any sense you would realize that this is not the time to covet my lands... 1-city NC around t60 btw Greenpeace would be really mad at me for chopping so much.

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As expected, that city between those two crazy maniacs did not last long and was razed... Oh Lizzy... on the other hand, the starting location seems safe enough to expand to (back-expanding, my favorites strat) so let's do that...

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Yes!!! may the wonderwh0ring begin! I did not get early shrine because I could not afford to waste time after wandering so long with my starting settler, but this gives me a religion instantly!

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You might think I was crazy to build wonders next to these guys, but by resettling where he razed Lizzy's city, Monty VS Shaka seems possible. And Lizzy STILL covets my lands

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My neighbors don't have their own religion, so this wonder is particularly nice. I also took Oracle but didn't take a screenshot.

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Now shared religion + this lucky stroke thanks to the barbs = I can breathe easy knowing that at least I have placated one of the two warmongers. A war bribe is an option any time. (sent him against Germany, the other wonderwh0re)

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I had the luxurious choice of both mosques and pagodas even at enhancement (but for 3 cities!???) so I ended up picking my religion to look like this.

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Another nice wonder to have...

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Oh no, Shaka... how could your impis be losing the war??? Monty only had muskets... I was a little worried now but Alex came to my rescue with the cheekiest of forward settles up north that city will be pretty hard to take without ships... I think I can keep Monty occupied for a while.

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Ack! I thought this was Pangaea... oh well... there seems to be uninhabited land on the other side of the world (I was the first to astronomy even) ruins and whatnot... I suppose it's not too late to send pathfinders over? The spot looks so good but I'm not sure if expanding at t160 is a good idea... and my happiness still worries me because my capitol is growing at a scary pace with all those grassland farms.

My faith income is high and I nabbed good wonders, but... do I really want to risk going for CV here... (and taking Freedom, most likely clashing with the rest of the world) hmm... an SV would be the safer bet given the mountain in my cap... still...
Monty worries me.

Would like to hear your thoughts... I'll continue the game tomorrow

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Hagia Sophia AND Borobudur? Haven't got to build those in ages. I guess, a map full of the warmongers has its benefits.

 

[kb27787]

Challenge complete!
peaceful CV exactly 300 turns flat

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Terra offered some interesting perks... one of them is increasing your 20+ pop city's population this late in the game. I found several ruins; unfortunately you cannot choose the same bonus twice in a row or something.

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Went freedom; and guess who of all people decided to follow me while the rest of the world went into autocracy? (hint: it's not the wonderwh0re Bismark) This shot is priceless... I doubt I'll see this often.

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The path to victory is clear after Shaka's fall from grace: kiss Monty's ass, and kiss ass I did. This is the first time I've built a landmark for someone else...

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My internet was delayed, mainly because I felt obligated to tech the airport line to Hubble first, in case I can get dynamite/flight to defend myself; however it seems Monty did not want to betray me this time. Oxford to sattelites; rationalism finisher to Internet.

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My masterplan is complete, after constant non-stop (bribed) battering from Japan, Huns and Monty, the cultural powerhouse Germany finally succumbs, giving up Berlin with 14 wonders.

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Who said broadway was a bad wonder for CV? It's an excellent wonder as long as you build it after NVC and internet at 287 on deity level nonetheless

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Going for the kill... (my GMs don't feel like swimming all the way to Germany)

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Victory!!!

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Not bad at all for spreading only with the missionaries from Borobudur... my religion yielded plenty of gold throughout those turns. Not having any nearby competing religions was also nice.

Oh... the things and wonders you can build when in a map of warmongers
I had 5-6 lvl 3 spies die on coups but it didn't matter as everyone loved spying on me... (and leveling up my spies when caught)
(in order of building) Hagia, Oracle, Borobudur, Sistine, Porcelain Tower, Eiffel, Statue of Liberty, Louvre, Cristo, Neuschweinstein, CN tower, Broadway , Sydney Opera House, Great Mosque , Great Firewall.

SP: full tradition, full aesthetics, full rat, freedom x6, exploration opener, commerce opener, piety opener, liberty opener (ran out of things to pick)

I seriously don't understand why people feel the need to expand quickly... an early expansion near a warmonger is a thousand years of trouble. Here I didn't get into a single war (aside from stealing the workers) the whole game.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

I gave this another shot. Built the cap in the same place as the first game (on the hill NE of the mountain you see in the starting view) and built my next two cities in the same places (on the gems about 8 spaces to the north, 5 spaces away from Monty, and right above the silver/stone to the west, 4 spaces away from Shaka's 2nd or 3rd city.)

Went tradition as well, only two differences:
1) I did not go for a pantheon, believe it or not. I figured faith doesn't do much for me early.
2) I managed Monty much better, "joining" him in his war against Lizzy, for instance, early on, and bribing him to DoW others when I could.
3) More archers early, send 'em west and north.

Worked fine. Shaka was my buddy as usual (early caravan helped, maybe. Or an early bribe to attack London. I dunno) and Monty didn't attack until turn 110 or so, with a ton of swordsmen/comp bows. He got my northern town down to zip but of course had no melee units nearby at that point, because the AI is dumb, dumb, dumb. Fought him off, plucking off the odd melee unit (narrowly) and eventually made peace.

BTW, I don't know if I've ever built the ToA, so I did (!), followed by the NC, finishing it at turn 92.

After the Monte attack, there was a crazy attack by Attila (open borders through Shaka) but I shut that down fast. After that, peace, maybe because I had 3 Comp Bows at each city near their borders, plus caravans, plus trades ... I guess?

Managed to build Sistene, Pisa, settled a 4th city next to a mountain about 6 spaces to the north/northeast, had 300 bpt by turn 168 and was going to discover ST on turn 175. 3rd or 4th in tech, only 3-4 back.

A better strategy would probably be to drive towards artillery post-education, those Shaka and Monte cities had really low defenses ... anyway, not going to finish because it's a little tedious at this point, standard 4-city tradition bit, but an interesting game. (Only with the Shoshone could you yawn your way to a turn 80'ish NC, which is what I could have had, and also have built an army of CB'men and done 3 bribes to start war.)

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

kb -- nice! How many settlers did you build before build the Oracle/NC? Did you load up on CB'men or did you rely on your diplomacy to get folks to not DoW you?

 

[kb27787]

kb -- nice! How many settlers did you build before build the Oracle/NC? Did you load up on CB'men or did you rely on your diplomacy to get folks to not DoW you?

If you read my first post, zero (but 1-city NC at t60 then expand twice around 70-ish... Hagia before Oracle)

Had my UU turned CB, and if you'll look at the screenshot, I went chariots rather than CB simply because chariots are cheaper and faster, along with a couple archers. This put my cap on production focus and 9-10 pop for quite a while (waiting for theology after NC I had a window of time), but after I got civil service I quickly caught up. Lizzy's aggravating expanding also helped pin a target on herself. I didn't even need to bribe those two to kill her.

 

[_megafone_]

Too many warmongers make those games too easy. Turn 292 CV here.

Spoiler :

I had to delay my win by around 20 turns because Bismarck took Athens, displacing my Diplomat, I hadn't scouted Greece's last city (where his cap moved to) , and I completely failed to notice - I only realized I'd be late when I blew my last GM and was like "wtf, why isn't Greece dominated yet?" lol. Probably could've finished by t275, which'd be a great time for a CV.

Settled on top of the marble and started the wonder-whoring with the Great Library, figuring that all those warmongers in a cramped space would probably not get it too soon; and being the Shoshone (plus the Marble start), I could finish it before turn 35, doing so at turn 34. Got NC up by 42ish, made a Settler, and then built ONLY WONDERS in my cap until turn 120 or so. By the game's end, IIRC, I had 23 Wonders, which is probably my personal record.

Didn't get involved in any wars throughout the game (got DoW'd by Monty in the game's last turn, just for laughs). Shaka and Monty are VERY easy to bribe if there's enough neighbors for them to beat up. The funny thing was that, as I was stealing their cities with cultural pressure, they were getting progressively madder at me, but they'd still take dirt-cheap bribes to attack one another. Too easy!

The biggest mistake I've made in this game was that I should've settled a third city by the sea; Opera House would probably shave 10+ turns by itself. Maybe even build some troops and take Cape Town would've been a good play, considering that everyone hated me by the game's end anyway.