Deity Game In Progress..what would you do?

[Knightblade pDM]

Okay guys, I'm playing my first real Deity game on PtW with current patch. Here's the skinny:

Deity/Small Map/7 Civs/Full Random Map Settings/Random Civs/Future Era/Domination, Conquest & Culture Victories On

I draw Mongols

AI Civs:

Japan
Greece
Spain
France
England
Iroquois

I start off next to a River with Game and Silks in the city radius. I pop a settler from a hut to found my second city. I then build a Granary in my capital to start a Settler factory. Greece is to my west as Japan is to the SE. Greece grows quickly as I soon find myself involved in my first mini war. I fight off the Greeks Rifle vs Rifle, then Rifle vs Cavs, as Cavs become my most used unit. Knowing this was going to be a phony war, I didn't advance, nor did they. I found my sixth city, then send out a sub to search for other civs. Spain is on it's own island to the NW of my continent. Iroquois, France and England are on another island West of mine.

I spot two sources of rubber on a mini island, queue up a transport and a settler and found a city right on top of a Rubber. Two turns later, France and Spain also found cities there, France taking the second rubber.

A few turns later, all my rifles go to MI and my Cavs are disbanded in cities MIs are queued up. Then World War I hits. I take three Japanese cities, including their capital, and knock them down to one city, which is just west of the growing Greek border. Later, they're destroyed by the French in Edo which the Greeks assimiliate. The Greeks and I go back and forth, neither civ gaining or losing ground. Spain breaks through the Greek front line and takes the ex Japanese city of Edo, but one turn later it's retaken by the Greeks.

Liz gets triple teamed by Spain, Greece, and France, but doesn't lose a single city. Greece and Spain since WW I have declared phony wars on each other. It's going to get ugly very soon.

Here is my dilemma. I need Aluminum for MA and nukes. I won't attack Spain since they're third in score. France is the 2nd weakest civ and only has 4 cities. One, Tours, is founded right on a source. I have included an SS of the very tense Greek-Mongolian border. All civs are either Furious or Annoyed with me. I've only broken one RoP against the Greeks but that was because of an earlier sneak attack on me. I just recently gained the top score on Histo and no one has declared war on me for centuries.

My gold is way above 10k. So, should I buy MAs against the French and risk another civ getting another aluminum, or should I go alone and try my best against the Fledgling French? What would you guys do? Here's the SS:

 

[WildFire]

Get some military force right outside the French city you wish to take and than declare war. Try to get military alliances with Greece, and Spain since they wouldnt do much in the beginning. Land your guys and try to bombard your way through and take the city. Than get MA's with the Iriqouis and England hoping that the French would attack them. And buy lots of culture improvements in the city with the rubber. Than try to win by Space!

 

[Knightblade pDM]

And here is an SS of the French empire in all it's "Glory"

 

[DaveMcW]

Get all the alliances against France that you can (MPP with Greece if possible), once you have aluminum you will be unstoppable.

 

[Sullla]

I have more of a question than anything else... what is the "Future Era" that you described in the game settings? If you started out in the Modern Age, then you're not really playing Deity, since the big challenge is to keep up in tech. Well, I'm curious about what exactly that means, so I hope you can shed some more information on that fact.

Your civ appears to be as large or larger than any of the AI civs in this game. With factories/power plants in all your cities, what's to stop you from simply rolling over all of the other civs? If you build enough artillery and use your forces wisely, there's no way that the AI civs can stop you. The AI is notoriously bad at running wars, after all. Once you get 30-40 artillery, it won't matter what kind of defenders the other civs are using or whatever attackers you have. You've played yourself into a winning position here, now just go out and take your victory! And if Greece has aluminum, since they're on your own island they would be the obvious target. That would be my advice; I've attacked civs 5 times my size on Deity before and been successful, so I think you will be just fine. Good luck!

 

[cracker]

Knightblade,

I second Sulla's concerns about the "future era" as an indicator that something is screwy here. You are not playing a "real" deity level game and this is another one of the fake elemnts of PTW. You have been somehow duped into not understanding what a deity level game is because I have follwoed some of your other recent posts and there is no indication that you could survive on deity or emperor level at this point in your game experience.

Back up here and help us to help you get a better handle on what the game means and what this current "non-deity" experience is that you have defined with the help of the PTW bypass bugs.

-- cracker

 

[Knightblade pDM]

Oh boy. So you guys are saying that anything except playing in the Future Era, where there's no tech race, just military, where the AI still starts off with much more units than you do, is not Deity?? It's still just as hard and just as challenging. It's just not scientific in nature, just military related.

And cracker, don't be so quick to judge me about my skills, just because you know everything about the game and the little intrigues of it doesn't give you the right to judge. I know A LOT about this game, as I've learned off of your site. So don't be so hasty with your words.

To me, it's just as hard. The AI still outexpands you quicker, it's still outbuilds you in military, so to me, it's Deity.

 

[anarres]

Sulla gently suggested that 'deity' was the wrong word to use, and cracker did it with more directness.

You are playing deity level, but you are playing a mod, and as such it is not comparable to a deity game started as normal, in the ancient era.

'Deity' difficulty just refers to the AI bonuses/human penalties present in the system to make it harder or easier.

Edit: I should add that Sulla and cracker are two of the most respected deity players at cfc. cracker is moderator at GOTM, and is well known for knocking PTW, so don't worry.

 

[anarres]

And in relation to the game, as Sulla said, just build an army and roll over them

I would suggest playing without any mods until you are happy with the game and it's limitations. You can then choose to play the mod you want, knowing what the game can do.

 

[col]

But getting into parity like this is the tough part. Surviving that early expansion phase is tough. I've never won on deity (but I have hopes of a current solo game) - that spceship just gets away from me...

If you start at this point, you're missing out the toughest part of a deity game.

 

[cracker]

Sorry Knightblade,

But this future age, no techrace game that you have stumbled into has nothing to do with a true deity level game. Unfortunately the mere existance of this thread under the guise of discussing deity level strategy is all that needs to be said about the conceptual understanding of how the game works.

You absolutely know nothing about how the game works if you feel this is Deity level and it is time for you to be less defensive and get on with the process. When you do silly things like this Future Era nonsense the AI is not programmed to deal with it and they basically lock up and assigne most of their cities to build worthless out date Great Wonders that should have been long ago eliminated from the build options. This is one of the flaws with dinkin' with the controls and knobs on the engines of the jet aircraft when you have no idead of what to look for in how the game responds. You have broken your toy again, but don't recognize that most of the play features are turned off.

This is not to deliberately pick out your skills as a target, but you promoted this as your first foray into a deity level game when it is not close. You basically broke the game and then said "Hey, this ain't so tough."

I would have been slower to respond to your posts except that this is a pattern of behavior that you have set repeatedly in the past. The game is fun even when you don't break it. Just step back an master the art of playing the game (without going into the editor where you have access to change things that you have no real concept as to how they make the game into something less challenging).

Just learn to play the game. We'll provide you with all the excitement and challenge that you could possibly learn to deal with in this lifetime or the next.

Try not to make up "screwy sheep dip" and post it in the strategies forum if you really want to look like you know what your doing or to get real help with real issues that occur in the game.

You obviously like the concept and format of the Civ3 game, now focus on what it takes to be a player and to get the most enjoyment out of the game in the long run.

-- cracker

 

[DaveMcW]

Don't be so harsh cracker.

You can learn a lot about military tactics playing against AIs with deity production bonus. Yes it is not comparable to a "real" deity win, but for some people it is more fun than starting in a hopeless tech hole.

 

[cracker]

Dave,

Don't misunderstand me, I agree with you that playing against the AI's at the Deity level can teach players a great deal.

My issue was only that we would be deluding ourselves to think that going into the editor and starting the game in "The Future Era" would even come close to faking that sort of experience.

The problem is in how the AI responds to having the entire tech tree dumped into their laps all in one pile. If all the greatwonders for the entire game and all the improvements for the entire game are just thrown into the mix at one time, the AI locks up and essentially disables its production advantages through the inability to manage twenty or thirty priorities at one time.

Basically, this was like putting sugar in the gas tank of the game.

These editor options that exist are not intended to be thrown into the game as any foundation for understanding strategy. If Knightblade had posted the same concepts in the general discussions forum or in the creations and customization forum then my view of the diversion would be different.

There is nothing of strategic value to any aspect of the game that can be derived from a game that is modified this severly.