Deity is brutal

[Gabethebabe]

So my level is approximately Emperor-Immortal. I will beat Emperor, unless things are really not going my way. I have won several Immortal games, including with some weaker leaders, but usually I need things to go nicely to win @ Immortal.

I want to win a Deity game (BTS), if only once in my life, using my default setup (Pangea, standard size, 6 civs). Upto now, all my attempts have failed. Watching Henrik play doesn't make me play like Henrik lol.

I have no issues handpicking my own leader (Hyuana) and the opponents (?) and reroll until I have a godlike capital (Gems or Gold and good food, for example, preferably with a side of Marble).

Two questions for you:
What adjustments allowed you to move up from Immortal to Deity? What subtilities do you think an Immortal player will overlook?
What 6 opponents at Deity do you think are the optimal bad bunch for a newbie Deity victory?

Bonus question. What is easier. To win Immortal with Charlemagne with random opponents or to win Deity with Hyuana and handpicked opponents?

 

[Plains-Cow]

I'm an Immortal player, too! The difficulty is because the jump from Immortal to Deity is greater than all of the previous difficulties combined (in AI advantages). What I've noticed is that Deity still requires some things to "go right" even if you play your start perfectly (unless there are some crazy strats that break the game in certain ways that haven't been discovered yet). I have played on Deity too, but it's not nearly as fun for me because of the insane hours spent resource counting, worker turn optimization, and city tile management needed to milk every last food, hammer, or commerce out of your starting position turn after turn until you've lined up your empire to pursue the victory condition you're after.

Have you ever played chess? I am much better at CIV IV than I am at chess, but the concept of learning is practically the same: you need to be able to "know" your position in relationship with where you are in the game. If you feel lost, your game is lost, especially against a Grandmaster (Deity) AI. You need to "read the board" of your empire and see how to optimize each movement. On Immortal and lower, you can obsess over hammers and food, but on Deity, you need to obsess over movements as a form of resource that on lower levels you don't really need to worry about. For example, you can throw away (think: blunder) worker turns left and right on Emperor and even some on Immortal, but on Deity, you need to get everything you can out of every move you make. I'd say that the ONE thing that causes people to fail at Deity is not understanding the level of patience you need until you memorize (like chess) all of the various positions to maximize your current boardspace's opportunities, and then you STILL need to be meticulous with your gameplay.

I'd consider myself a "strong" Immortal player but wouldn't even call myself a "weak" Deity player. Have I won on it? Yes (only once or twice), but playing Deity almost feels like I'm playing a different game entirely because I'm focusing much harder on totally different aspects that I can otherwise afford to gloss over on Immortal and below. This is the thing that, in my opinion, makes the difference between an Immortal (and lower) player and a Deity player. I'd say keep watching Henrik and try to realize in your mind's eye why he's doing the things he's doing at that exact time, in that exact scenario, in that exact setup, especially if it works well for him down the line. That way, when you find yourself in a similar board situation in a game, you can pull out that move (or series of moves) and catapult yourself forward compared to the AI. It's how I win consistently at Immortal without too much thinking anymore.

In short: I think Immortal -> Deity is more of a patience and memorization issue than a raw skill or CIV IV mechanics-understanding issue. That's what's overlooked.

The six Deity opponents I'd pick would all be religious wimps/general peaceniks so I could manipulate politics in my favor to avoid wars and set up my empire without needing to put more than necessary hammers into a military.

Bonus question: I'd say that it all depends who you roll with Charlie (especially who you're next to) and the victory condition you're trying for. I believe there are too many variables to answer that with a definitive one way or the other.

 

[Fippy]

I think there can be Immortal maps that are more difficult than (generous) deity maps,
but prolly only for those who already have some experience with deity.

An optimal setup for deity prolly looks something like:
You have only few neighbors (peacenik AIs), but the others are warmongers or those who are not great at teching
Only high peaceweight (Gandhi, Lizzy, Hatty etc..) doesn't really make for an easy game cos it's much better when AIs fight now and then.
And with tech trading they can snowball pretty fast if they all love each other.

Toku for example can really make a deity game easier (if he's not bordering you), he will never trade anything with the peaceful AIs.

 

[a pen-dragon]

What adjustments allowed you to move up from Immortal to Deity? What subtilities do you think an Immortal player will overlook?

Early game micro. Settling on a better tile can shave a few turns off the initial worker. Choosing carefully which tiles to work makes cities grow as fast while building more stuff. Improvements like these quickly add up to a few turns being won. You get whatever critical tech you are going for faster, and thus get to attack earlier against a weaker opponent (it is extremely rare that you do not need to go to war).

Also the focus should be on short term benefits, with the same idea: early advantages grow, so a small early advantage frequently beats a big late advantage. This also has to apply to cities. There is no point in picking the spot with the best 21 tiles, as most of the game you will be working 3-10.

Another important thing I learned when moving to Deity is to pay close attention to what the AI will be doing (relations, are they plotting, can they plot against me, can they be bought into wars, etc).

 

[pmarc]

All the aspects of diplomacy (war plotting, tech trading, etc., see this thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/) are much more important. On immortal for a lot of starts a good player can outpace the AI in land, tech, etc., but on deity that's not the case, so you need to watch diplomacy carefully for potential help or threats, leverage great people for tech boosts and then trade for other techs, etc. You cannot rest even if you conquer enough land to be the biggest empire because smaller deity AIs have pulled ahead in science while you are paying maintenance for that large empire and army.

 

[Gabethebabe]

Toku for example can really make a deity game easier (if he's not bordering you), he will never trade anything with the peaceful AIs.

Toku ended my best Deity run with a DoW when he hated the others more and had to travel trough territory of someone else, which is unusual as well.
I might have survived if I had built units instead of Courthouses. My military is usually very weak.

Another important thing I learned when moving to Deity is to pay close attention to what the AI will be doing (relations, are they plotting, can they plot against me, can they be bought into wars, etc).

How useful is it to bribe an AI to war vs another AI. They usually are wars with not much going on that end quickly, leaving you with a diplo hit from the civ that was attacked. Oh and it usually costs an arm and a leg.

 

[a pen-dragon]

How useful is it to bribe an AI to war vs another AI. They usually are wars with not much going on that end quickly, leaving you with a diplo hit from the civ that was attacked. Oh and it usually costs an arm and a leg.

One main point is that it does switch them to war mode and hit their relations, reducing the current (and future!) teching speed. Also it can be used to keep them busy while you are going after someone else. Another main use case is to bribe in an ally into difficult wars (at the beginning!), to make the target choose where to defend, and preferably both AI smash into each other, or at least divert the units of a target. Bribing someone into a war you already are in is significantly cheaper.

That said, this is more situational, but can be a great help at critical moments.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Toku ended my best Deity run with a DoW when he hated the others more and had to travel trough territory of someone else, which is unusual as well.
I might have survived if I had built units instead of Courthouses. My military is usually very weak.


How useful is it to bribe an AI to war vs another AI. They usually are wars with not much going on that end quickly, leaving you with a diplo hit from the civ that was attacked. Oh and it usually costs an arm and a leg.

Want a fun game with AI wars? This also works on high difficulties. Vassal an AI that's good at military and research (or at the very least military-inclined with high unit production and aggression). Afterward, gift them back ALL of their cities you took. They won't break free, and you can sic them on other AIs and force tech trade with them via directing their research path with diplomacy. This keeps you in the game tech-wise while you use their army to tackle more AIs. You can win a conquest victory this way if you constantly try snowballing more AIs into your empire to fight for you while you sit behind them and direct them like a military general lol.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

What adjustments allowed you to move up from Immortal to Deity?

I can win at Deity (thanks to everything I've learned on here!) but I find it a drag and more like work lol. The key thing I learned playing succession games was the need to check every city every turn, making sure it's doing what you need and looking for micro to tweak.