Deity level challenge: standard sized continent map, speed normal
- Thread starter Snaaty
- Start date
Tyrant Roger
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 203
I recommend a domination strategy. To succeed with that on this level would be remarkable. Great play so far. Keep it up.
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
Great play so far, let us know what victory condition(s) you feel you might be able to achieve.
Shame to admit, but I actually never saw this small space-ship movie at the end so far...
With this game, I´d like to try, but with peace all over the world, we would never be able to beat Washinton or Hatschi to it (even with war I think we would loose Space Race because thats what I normally do...)
I will make the next turnset quite short, and will try to bribe a war between Freddy/Washinton and Hatschi/Vicky when military tradition comes in. When that doesnt work out (very likely wouldnt because Washinton and Hatschi are too strong score wise) only way to go is domination.
Diplomatic no way, because Freddy, Washinton and Hatschi will probably finish this game without a single war and so we sort of alread lost this (in this, my bets are on Hatschi)...
@ lilnev:
Vicky I will try to keep alive till the end. Best would be, when we become a bit stronger than she is. Like that we would be able to tech-trade with her up to the (bitter) end what is much better then taking her out (what we couldnt do, even if we wanted...). Same I would like to try wiht Freddy.
No way in taking out Hatschi (now), even combined forces with Vicky (computer loves to mass units after last patch and she is simply to big and to advanced. Once they have riflemeen, the losses are just to high for taking a single city because computer will have about 6 - 10 of them each city...)
When we get to modern amor (and havent lost space race before) we can try...
If I had to rate this game, I would say much depends on our next move (very likely war agains Huy). When we can take all (or most) of his cities very quick, we stand a very small chance for domination. I cant give you any better prognosis because I havent played this settings before myself, so best is if we dont expect to much and are prepared to loose via space race (of which I´m sort of an expert)...
I will try to bring a little strategy update before we go on. Feel free to critisize it, rate it, comment it or propose other/better things to do.
See you
Snaaty
With this game, I´d like to try, but with peace all over the world, we would never be able to beat Washinton or Hatschi to it (even with war I think we would loose Space Race because thats what I normally do...)
I will make the next turnset quite short, and will try to bribe a war between Freddy/Washinton and Hatschi/Vicky when military tradition comes in. When that doesnt work out (very likely wouldnt because Washinton and Hatschi are too strong score wise) only way to go is domination.
Diplomatic no way, because Freddy, Washinton and Hatschi will probably finish this game without a single war and so we sort of alread lost this (in this, my bets are on Hatschi)...
@ lilnev:
Vicky I will try to keep alive till the end. Best would be, when we become a bit stronger than she is. Like that we would be able to tech-trade with her up to the (bitter) end what is much better then taking her out (what we couldnt do, even if we wanted...). Same I would like to try wiht Freddy.
No way in taking out Hatschi (now), even combined forces with Vicky (computer loves to mass units after last patch and she is simply to big and to advanced. Once they have riflemeen, the losses are just to high for taking a single city because computer will have about 6 - 10 of them each city...)
When we get to modern amor (and havent lost space race before) we can try...
If I had to rate this game, I would say much depends on our next move (very likely war agains Huy). When we can take all (or most) of his cities very quick, we stand a very small chance for domination. I cant give you any better prognosis because I havent played this settings before myself, so best is if we dont expect to much and are prepared to loose via space race (of which I´m sort of an expert)...
I will try to bring a little strategy update before we go on. Feel free to critisize it, rate it, comment it or propose other/better things to do.
See you
Snaaty
I wanted to post this already 2 days ago, but didnt get it finished. Then there was lots of work and now I already played the next session and still havent posted this
So here it is (the next turnset I will post probably tomorrow, because it just fits better chronologically that way):
Im still sort of indecisive in what to do next (my hope for my first space race victory seems to die last). Once we have researched military tradition (and hopefully we are first to do so), we have to choose finally which goal we are trying to go for.
Good thing is that the AI researches military tradition quite late but any AI will do quite a lot to get it. So when we want to have a (very very very small) chance to go for space race, we must manage to bribe Freddy to war with Washington and Vicky to war with Hatschi. Since all the AI´s have more or less the same land size, I think by looking at the scores, that Hatschi and Washington are to far advanced to keep up in research, so this would be the only way in slowing them down. With Freddy and Vicky I think we can compete in the end. When its not possible to inflict these wars, we must switch to plan b
Plan B (likely to occur by 99, 99999%):
Since Huy had never been involved in a war, he will have massed a huge army up to now. So we will never be able to attack him straight away because we have a very limited capacity to raise an army. Reason for this is that the only thing that keeps you alive and at least sort of competitive on deity (except special settings where warmongering seems to work) is, in my opinion, being a builder (and having lots of workers, best is to have more workers then cities in the beginning (less then 4 cities) and about as much as you have cities up to about 8 cities, later you can slow/stop producing them). So we cant afford to spend much time for producing units. A good example for what I mean is maybe our war against Toki. We have been concentrating on empire building exclusively up to 500 BC (built 7 cities, 6 workers, 7 barracks and 4 libraries) and produced our first swordsmen only in 450 BC. 125 AD (when we entered the war) we already switched back to producing city infrastructure (built everything that helped save or make money), what we did until about 900 AD in all cities.
For this war we will produce units from about 900 AD on in only 5 cities. I already started this in last turnset because Im quite sure we have to rely on this strategy because I think we wont be able to inflict all wars necessary for slowing the AI´s down enough.
Goal is to raise an army containing altogether about 20 cavalry and 6 catapults up to about 1100 AD. We will try to accomplish this by producing about 10 elephants, because they are quicker produced, and then use the whip to bring out 10 cavalry just in time. The catapults are no problem, since we have 3 or 4 left out of our first war. We will need about 2000 Gold to upgrade our elephants but I think we will make most of the money needed via trading out military tradition.
Since plan b sort of involves invading Huy, we have to relay also on our charming skills in this matter because we can´t take him alone (at least not in the planned timeframe, max. 15 - 20 turns). We will try to send Vicky after Huy and then pick up whats left of him. What makes things even more complicated is the fact, that our borderland cities conquered from Toki touch Huy´s cultural territory directly.
Additionally we have to be very carfull in this, because Huy doesnt stand much chance against Vicky, once we give her military tradition and she goes after him with cavalry. Worst that could happen to us is that either Vicky suddenly evolves into the top dog by taking Huy out alone or that Hatschi joins the slaughter (since the last patch, the AI loves to gang on easy prey, no matter if its you or another AI. They even dont care for relations when target is week enough or at war with 2 opponents, then most of them will attack also on friendly). So very much can go wrong, but we need the cities and we need an ally that is weaker then we are if we want plan b to work out to the end somehow.
In parallel, to speed up building our infrastructure, we will now use the whip quite a lot. Before happiness buildings are available, I normally only use the whip in case of emergency or for quick troop raising because we want our cities to be at max. size without any happy limits to produce optimal.
There is a simple key to successful whipping (again in my opinion):
Whip granary and lighthouse (shore cities) first when whipping. Set the cities then to specialize on food only. For that, its in my opinion more effective to skip cottages completely from the beginning on and to build only food and production improvements. (in general, I only build cottages when I cant improve an already used tile any other way). Then when whipping, a city with granary is very likely to grow every one ore two turns. Like that, you can whip every 4 to 8 turns an improvement that costs 4 citizens in average (which is quite a lot). When you whip like granary, lighthouse, market (and have fur, ivory, silk and whale) your overall happiness still increases by one. So you can whip quite a lot of infrastructure without loosing population and causing the city to be unhappy. There are even some guides and rules on how to use the whip overflow (each citizen adds a fixed amount of production and when its not used up by your current project this is transferred to next project) but I havent done that so far in my games but that would be micromanagement in his best and surly could help (but Im to lazy to do so)
So much for the theory
See you
Snaaty
So here it is (the next turnset I will post probably tomorrow, because it just fits better chronologically that way):
Im still sort of indecisive in what to do next (my hope for my first space race victory seems to die last). Once we have researched military tradition (and hopefully we are first to do so), we have to choose finally which goal we are trying to go for.
Good thing is that the AI researches military tradition quite late but any AI will do quite a lot to get it. So when we want to have a (very very very small) chance to go for space race, we must manage to bribe Freddy to war with Washington and Vicky to war with Hatschi. Since all the AI´s have more or less the same land size, I think by looking at the scores, that Hatschi and Washington are to far advanced to keep up in research, so this would be the only way in slowing them down. With Freddy and Vicky I think we can compete in the end. When its not possible to inflict these wars, we must switch to plan b
Plan B (likely to occur by 99, 99999%):
Since Huy had never been involved in a war, he will have massed a huge army up to now. So we will never be able to attack him straight away because we have a very limited capacity to raise an army. Reason for this is that the only thing that keeps you alive and at least sort of competitive on deity (except special settings where warmongering seems to work) is, in my opinion, being a builder (and having lots of workers, best is to have more workers then cities in the beginning (less then 4 cities) and about as much as you have cities up to about 8 cities, later you can slow/stop producing them). So we cant afford to spend much time for producing units. A good example for what I mean is maybe our war against Toki. We have been concentrating on empire building exclusively up to 500 BC (built 7 cities, 6 workers, 7 barracks and 4 libraries) and produced our first swordsmen only in 450 BC. 125 AD (when we entered the war) we already switched back to producing city infrastructure (built everything that helped save or make money), what we did until about 900 AD in all cities.
For this war we will produce units from about 900 AD on in only 5 cities. I already started this in last turnset because Im quite sure we have to rely on this strategy because I think we wont be able to inflict all wars necessary for slowing the AI´s down enough.
Goal is to raise an army containing altogether about 20 cavalry and 6 catapults up to about 1100 AD. We will try to accomplish this by producing about 10 elephants, because they are quicker produced, and then use the whip to bring out 10 cavalry just in time. The catapults are no problem, since we have 3 or 4 left out of our first war. We will need about 2000 Gold to upgrade our elephants but I think we will make most of the money needed via trading out military tradition.
Since plan b sort of involves invading Huy, we have to relay also on our charming skills in this matter because we can´t take him alone (at least not in the planned timeframe, max. 15 - 20 turns). We will try to send Vicky after Huy and then pick up whats left of him. What makes things even more complicated is the fact, that our borderland cities conquered from Toki touch Huy´s cultural territory directly.
Additionally we have to be very carfull in this, because Huy doesnt stand much chance against Vicky, once we give her military tradition and she goes after him with cavalry. Worst that could happen to us is that either Vicky suddenly evolves into the top dog by taking Huy out alone or that Hatschi joins the slaughter (since the last patch, the AI loves to gang on easy prey, no matter if its you or another AI. They even dont care for relations when target is week enough or at war with 2 opponents, then most of them will attack also on friendly). So very much can go wrong, but we need the cities and we need an ally that is weaker then we are if we want plan b to work out to the end somehow.
In parallel, to speed up building our infrastructure, we will now use the whip quite a lot. Before happiness buildings are available, I normally only use the whip in case of emergency or for quick troop raising because we want our cities to be at max. size without any happy limits to produce optimal.
There is a simple key to successful whipping (again in my opinion):
Whip granary and lighthouse (shore cities) first when whipping. Set the cities then to specialize on food only. For that, its in my opinion more effective to skip cottages completely from the beginning on and to build only food and production improvements. (in general, I only build cottages when I cant improve an already used tile any other way). Then when whipping, a city with granary is very likely to grow every one ore two turns. Like that, you can whip every 4 to 8 turns an improvement that costs 4 citizens in average (which is quite a lot). When you whip like granary, lighthouse, market (and have fur, ivory, silk and whale) your overall happiness still increases by one. So you can whip quite a lot of infrastructure without loosing population and causing the city to be unhappy. There are even some guides and rules on how to use the whip overflow (each citizen adds a fixed amount of production and when its not used up by your current project this is transferred to next project) but I havent done that so far in my games but that would be micromanagement in his best and surly could help (but Im to lazy to do so)
So much for the theory
See you
Snaaty
When military tradition hits home we have to face the fact, that we cant inflict the wars needed to slow down the big ones, so we only bribe Vicky to war with Huy by trading military tradition for gunpowder, 60 gold and the war mentioned.
Additionally, we taded military tradition with Freddy for machinery, paper and 160 gold. Here I would have prefered to take Constitution, but I didn’t dare to gable because we would need grenadiers when Huy gets riflemen to soon. That also why we set research to chemistry.
Last trade we did was military tradition for 1300 gold to Hatschi
Parallel we whipped the cavalries, and then went back to infrastructure. The first turnset was ended just before declaring war to Huy.
Later I reckoned that I had forgotten to produce 2 catapults, so we end up with 4 of them altogether. This are bad news because with only 4 catapults, we wont be able to take city defenses down enough in one turn to attack with our cavalry without loosing to much of them.
Still we have to live with that, since we have no other choice.
...
The war lasted only 12 round. Huy only mad it to gunpowder, 5 turns before war ended. That didn’t help him…
Like expected we lost quite a lot of cavalry (we lost about every fight when the odds were at 70% or lower for us to win), but we had enough cavalry produced to make it to the end.
We got:
View attachment 144326
Vicky got:
View attachment 144325
The last city of Huy is down to the last defender, but I had quit this turnset just before taking it because I don’t know if we should keep this city or if we should burn it. In my opinion we should burn it and build another town two tiles closer to our territory, because this one is to close to Hatshi´s cities and we would get killed by her cultural borders…
Bad news is that we lost quite some turns of research by not gambling and not taking constitution from Freddy.
Meanwhile Tokio produced a catapult and nobody knows why, because the war is almost over at that point (seems like I have been sort of confused while playing this turnsets). But nevertheless they did and so we will send it of search for the war (but of course it comes to late…
Everything worked out more or less as planned, but when we face the fact, that emancipation is already used by one AI and with all the cities we have now we are still only third in score, we have to be realistic:
WE WONT MAKE IT (we will loose another game space races)
But when we consider that this was our first try on these settings, we can still be proud with what we achieved and put up a new goal:
We want to be at least in the score lead when somebody (very likely Washington) leaves for the stars (at this point I decided to play on)…
View attachment 144327
At least this we made. Some time after this screenshot, Freddy (about 1790) left for the stars. I was a little surprised that not Washington did it, but here we see what a little trade embargo (me and Vicky) can do.
Altogether we lacked about 15 to 20 turns to get to all tech prerequisites for modern armor. Once this hits home, all can go quite fast. With maybe 15 – 20 turns more, we would have taken our continent completely (what should have been enough for a domination victory), so altogether we lost for 30 to 40 turns…
Fazit:
What went wrong / what we could do better
- We teched to slow in the beginning, mainly due to the lack of any happiness resources near our capital (bad luck)
- We could have used the whip a little earlier and a little heavier (would be worth a try)
- We could have tried the liberalism research path: lightbulbing education partly with a GS, using our free tech for nationalism (would have bought us about 10 turns, also worth a try)
- With no war among the AI´s its very hard (maybe impossible) to keep up tech-wise
- Since all AI´s were additionally about the equal size and strength, they teched up like lunatics, and after military tradition no tech-trades were possible for us
- Next time, we must gamble (since playing save slowed us down: we could have traded gunpowder with Huy, could have traded Constitution directly with Freddy. That alone would have bought us about 15 turns)
- Only one aggressive AI was on this map (Toki, our neighbor), and him we had to take out first and by ourselves, so this sped up the AI´s additionally
We had bad luck with this map and the other civs, but nevertheless I think for a first go we did quite good. When we would have played all our cards right we maybe even could have been possible to gain the missing 30 - 40 turns. On the other hand, this would have involved a lot of gambling (getting liberalism first, not being able to take out Huy fast enough… so maybe things would have gone wrong earlier…
Thanks for participating
See you
Snaaty
Additionally, we taded military tradition with Freddy for machinery, paper and 160 gold. Here I would have prefered to take Constitution, but I didn’t dare to gable because we would need grenadiers when Huy gets riflemen to soon. That also why we set research to chemistry.
Last trade we did was military tradition for 1300 gold to Hatschi
Parallel we whipped the cavalries, and then went back to infrastructure. The first turnset was ended just before declaring war to Huy.
Later I reckoned that I had forgotten to produce 2 catapults, so we end up with 4 of them altogether. This are bad news because with only 4 catapults, we wont be able to take city defenses down enough in one turn to attack with our cavalry without loosing to much of them.
Still we have to live with that, since we have no other choice.
...
The war lasted only 12 round. Huy only mad it to gunpowder, 5 turns before war ended. That didn’t help him…
Like expected we lost quite a lot of cavalry (we lost about every fight when the odds were at 70% or lower for us to win), but we had enough cavalry produced to make it to the end.
We got:
View attachment 144326
Vicky got:
View attachment 144325
The last city of Huy is down to the last defender, but I had quit this turnset just before taking it because I don’t know if we should keep this city or if we should burn it. In my opinion we should burn it and build another town two tiles closer to our territory, because this one is to close to Hatshi´s cities and we would get killed by her cultural borders…
Bad news is that we lost quite some turns of research by not gambling and not taking constitution from Freddy.
Meanwhile Tokio produced a catapult and nobody knows why, because the war is almost over at that point (seems like I have been sort of confused while playing this turnsets). But nevertheless they did and so we will send it of search for the war (but of course it comes to late…
Everything worked out more or less as planned, but when we face the fact, that emancipation is already used by one AI and with all the cities we have now we are still only third in score, we have to be realistic:
WE WONT MAKE IT (we will loose another game space races)
But when we consider that this was our first try on these settings, we can still be proud with what we achieved and put up a new goal:
We want to be at least in the score lead when somebody (very likely Washington) leaves for the stars (at this point I decided to play on)…
View attachment 144327
At least this we made. Some time after this screenshot, Freddy (about 1790) left for the stars. I was a little surprised that not Washington did it, but here we see what a little trade embargo (me and Vicky) can do.
Altogether we lacked about 15 to 20 turns to get to all tech prerequisites for modern armor. Once this hits home, all can go quite fast. With maybe 15 – 20 turns more, we would have taken our continent completely (what should have been enough for a domination victory), so altogether we lost for 30 to 40 turns…
Fazit:
What went wrong / what we could do better
- We teched to slow in the beginning, mainly due to the lack of any happiness resources near our capital (bad luck)
- We could have used the whip a little earlier and a little heavier (would be worth a try)
- We could have tried the liberalism research path: lightbulbing education partly with a GS, using our free tech for nationalism (would have bought us about 10 turns, also worth a try)
- With no war among the AI´s its very hard (maybe impossible) to keep up tech-wise
- Since all AI´s were additionally about the equal size and strength, they teched up like lunatics, and after military tradition no tech-trades were possible for us
- Next time, we must gamble (since playing save slowed us down: we could have traded gunpowder with Huy, could have traded Constitution directly with Freddy. That alone would have bought us about 15 turns)
- Only one aggressive AI was on this map (Toki, our neighbor), and him we had to take out first and by ourselves, so this sped up the AI´s additionally
We had bad luck with this map and the other civs, but nevertheless I think for a first go we did quite good. When we would have played all our cards right we maybe even could have been possible to gain the missing 30 - 40 turns. On the other hand, this would have involved a lot of gambling (getting liberalism first, not being able to take out Huy fast enough…
so maybe things would have gone wrong earlier…Thanks for participating
See you
Snaaty
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
Nice job and thanks for playing this game!
I certainly learned a lot and it would be cool to have this as a regular challenge
I certainly learned a lot and it would be cool to have this as a regular challenge
I certainly learned a lot ...
Same here.
And a big compliment goes to the developers, cause they have in fact managed to balance the different map sizes and game speeds.
The games I managed to finish domination on huge maps, epic speed, I was able to bring out modern armor shortly before 1700. If we would have been able to do this here, maybe it could have also worked out.
At least we have now a reference game and a timeline (=gameplan) on this settings, what could help in further games...
...would be cool to have this as a regular challenge
Maybe i´ll give another try in a while, when enough people join in. But next time I expect some of you to play as well, so we get kicked ass together...
But prerequesit would be, that we discuss this game now, where we could do better/different etc.
So I start right away with this question:
Maybe it would have even been more efficient to stay peace with Huy and to go directly for modern armor?
See you
Snaaty
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
Hi Snaaty,
I normally play Monarch/Emperor, but will play along next time if you go for it again and chime in with more feedback, etc.
This is a tough call imo. More cities = ability to produce more units faster later in the game (i.e., once modern armor comes out). It primarily depends though on whether or not you think two things:
1) Could you have achieved modern armor fast enough to catch Huy with significantly inferior tech meaning you could wipe him out fast?
2) Would you still have time following wiping out Huy to wipe out the rest of your continent prior to a) someone else winning space; b) them getting sufficient tech to really slow down your war efforts leading to condition a)
I normally play Monarch/Emperor, but will play along next time if you go for it again and chime in with more feedback, etc.
This is a tough call imo. More cities = ability to produce more units faster later in the game (i.e., once modern armor comes out). It primarily depends though on whether or not you think two things:
1) Could you have achieved modern armor fast enough to catch Huy with significantly inferior tech meaning you could wipe him out fast?
2) Would you still have time following wiping out Huy to wipe out the rest of your continent prior to a) someone else winning space; b) them getting sufficient tech to really slow down your war efforts leading to condition a)
I cant contribute to the discussion because I play at Prince, and never get to modern armour, but this thread was a great read. It's good to watch how the game is played at this high level. I would appreciate another one same settings, and hopefully you get some more input from the strong players.
Hi Snaaty
I just read through your game. It is interesting to see you in Caste System, something I rarely use unless I am a religious civ. IIRC you where running lots of scientists in the capital with Bureaucracy. I think the Bureaucracy bonus only applies to hammers and commerce, not to beakers. Perhaps this wasn't the best combination of civics to run?
Anyway, you are doing well holding your ground on Diety like this. I normally only play Emperor, though just had my first immortal win (isolated start -> cultural) last night. Thanks for the thread
Godel
I just read through your game. It is interesting to see you in Caste System, something I rarely use unless I am a religious civ. IIRC you where running lots of scientists in the capital with Bureaucracy. I think the Bureaucracy bonus only applies to hammers and commerce, not to beakers. Perhaps this wasn't the best combination of civics to run?
Anyway, you are doing well holding your ground on Diety like this. I normally only play Emperor, though just had my first immortal win (isolated start -> cultural) last night. Thanks for the thread
Godel
futurehermit
Deity
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- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
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^^why only caste system with a religious civ? imo it's good anytime going for SE.
With a religious civ I sometimes use Caste system in the early game for maybe 10 turns or so to get a fast GS, especially if combined with pacifism.
I find that, in general, slavery is a more powerful civic. Whipping a granary, courthouse, library and market place allows you to get infrastructure quickly and then you can hire specialists from these buildings. If you get the GL you can have 4 scientists in one city. Excess food in this city can be used for whipping.
Suppose you conquer a new city. It will take a while to get infrastructure in place. In the meantime excess food is used to hire scientists. OTOH, if you run slavery, you delay hiring scientists until the library is built (whipped), but then you can hire 2 scientists and get +25% for beakers.
I have played a game with Peter on Emperor where I stayed in caste system for 80% of the game (right up to space race). This worked well too. I don't use slavery exclusively for non-SPI civs.
I turned to caste system as a last resort, because I was falling back more and more in tech.
Using it really sped up research and it allowed me to take at least one more civ down with early cavallry.
...
I thought that gold is converted into research by the research slider. So if you get more gold in one city (via Bureaucracy) the you should get more research. If my assumption is wrong, please correct me because this could help in other games. Thanks in advance.
...
After some considerations, I think this game was mainly lost due to rapid expansion. I was second in having 7 cities, only one AI expanded more agressivly. With all the bonuses the AI gets (and the penalties for the player), no wonder I had to tune down research more and more.
Still I think I wouldn´t have been able to play this map different, because without any happy-resources I think I would have lost anyway. So I had to go to the northpole (fur and silver).
Still I´m quite pleased how it worked out in the end. So maybe with a better start (at least one happy-resource somewere within a radius of 8 tiles distance to capital) it could work out in the end...
See you
Snaaty
Using it really sped up research and it allowed me to take at least one more civ down with early cavallry.
...
I thought that gold is converted into research by the research slider. So if you get more gold in one city (via Bureaucracy) the you should get more research. If my assumption is wrong, please correct me because this could help in other games. Thanks in advance.
...
After some considerations, I think this game was mainly lost due to rapid expansion. I was second in having 7 cities, only one AI expanded more agressivly. With all the bonuses the AI gets (and the penalties for the player), no wonder I had to tune down research more and more.
Still I think I wouldn´t have been able to play this map different, because without any happy-resources I think I would have lost anyway. So I had to go to the northpole (fur and silver).
Still I´m quite pleased how it worked out in the end. So maybe with a better start (at least one happy-resource somewere within a radius of 8 tiles distance to capital) it could work out in the end...
See you
Snaaty
Hi all,
I just removed all saves from this thread to save db-space.
And yes, this means that I´m up for a new try. I´m preparing the first posts and saves and will post them today or tomorrow in a new thread.
@ Godel & futurehermit:
Thanks for joining in the "after-game" discussion.
...
Started the game already 2 days ago, but thought I would get killed early. Since I´m still alive, time to go public, so others can join in if still interested
See you
Snaaty
I just removed all saves from this thread to save db-space.
And yes, this means that I´m up for a new try. I´m preparing the first posts and saves and will post them today or tomorrow in a new thread.
@ Godel & futurehermit:
Thanks for joining in the "after-game" discussion.
...
Started the game already 2 days ago, but thought I would get killed early. Since I´m still alive, time to go public, so others can join in if still interested
See you
Snaaty
Greetings in this forum.
I don´t have warlords, I´m only playing vanilla. If you are interested in some deity strategy for warlords, check out the actual games going in the succession games thread (via stories and tales). Acidsatyr and multineer are each doing a challange there with lots of discussion and tips.
I only did a quite short second challange some while ago in which I adopted strategy to the results of this game (I normally don´t play standard size and normal speed but huge maps and epic speed) which still includes saves and is described here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197903
...
But in general, the warmonger aproach (see acidsatyr and multineer`s threads) is considered more successful/powerfull by the major part of the community then the more peaceful aproach I prefere to use
I don´t have warlords, I´m only playing vanilla. If you are interested in some deity strategy for warlords, check out the actual games going in the succession games thread (via stories and tales). Acidsatyr and multineer are each doing a challange there with lots of discussion and tips.
I only did a quite short second challange some while ago in which I adopted strategy to the results of this game (I normally don´t play standard size and normal speed but huge maps and epic speed) which still includes saves and is described here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197903
...
But in general, the warmonger aproach (see acidsatyr and multineer`s threads) is considered more successful/powerfull by the major part of the community then the more peaceful aproach I prefere to use
Hi Snaaty
I would be interested in seeing some more development of peace-oriented strategies at high levels. The current EMC is taking this kind of approach, but Emperor level is quite different from Diety. (I have had quite a few emp victories without war, and even an immortal victory without war with isolated start).
Do you win often on Diety? If you have some more wins at this level and you adopt a more peaceful style of play I'd be interested in some write-up, or summary of what you think works in certain circumstances.
Godel
I would be interested in seeing some more development of peace-oriented strategies at high levels. The current EMC is taking this kind of approach, but Emperor level is quite different from Diety. (I have had quite a few emp victories without war, and even an immortal victory without war with isolated start).
Do you win often on Diety? If you have some more wins at this level and you adopt a more peaceful style of play I'd be interested in some write-up, or summary of what you think works in certain circumstances.
Godel
best strat I found out to be (at least for me) is to be peaceful until late medival and to do only one short expansion war with cavalry or grenadiers (depending on resources).
After that back to peace. Then going for space race. When I managed to block the AI of and to found 6 cities (or more) I was in the end able to win about 50% of the games using a financial or organized civ, about 30% when using a random civ (not financial or organized). In my last games, I even managed to do without any strategical resources and without early chopping/slavery (trade it later for alphabeth) by using archers to block of the barbs (what I found to be a great thing, because then you can completely specialize in blocking of the AI with your first 3 cities).
The games lost were about 30% du to an early invasion via my neighbours (Hatschi seems to hate me, because she always comes after me with war chariots bevore 2000 BC) or because one AI runs off to far and I wasn´t able to involve them in an endgame war (when Kathy for example runs over her whole continent with kossacks and ends up with 25 cities 1400 AD she (and all other AI´s except the aggressive ones) will be able to bring up the space-ship about 1750 AD).
Concerning the human timelime:
When playing right, you should be able to launch a space-ship from 1800 AD on. You normally must do so before 1850 AD because that when the average AI will launch it
You can look at the link I posted above (2 posts up) where I summarized this strat for a "standard" game.
There is another (older) thread in this forum where I described an isolated start (huge archipelago map) but I already deleted the saves and the game (you will have to search for it) and I kept it very short because there was no interest. Perhaps I will do one last write-up for an isolated start when I finished my actual game in the stories and tales...
After that back to peace. Then going for space race. When I managed to block the AI of and to found 6 cities (or more) I was in the end able to win about 50% of the games using a financial or organized civ, about 30% when using a random civ (not financial or organized). In my last games, I even managed to do without any strategical resources and without early chopping/slavery (trade it later for alphabeth) by using archers to block of the barbs (what I found to be a great thing, because then you can completely specialize in blocking of the AI with your first 3 cities).
The games lost were about 30% du to an early invasion via my neighbours (Hatschi seems to hate me, because she always comes after me with war chariots bevore 2000 BC) or because one AI runs off to far and I wasn´t able to involve them in an endgame war (when Kathy for example runs over her whole continent with kossacks and ends up with 25 cities 1400 AD she (and all other AI´s except the aggressive ones) will be able to bring up the space-ship about 1750 AD).
Concerning the human timelime:
When playing right, you should be able to launch a space-ship from 1800 AD on. You normally must do so before 1850 AD because that when the average AI will launch it
You can look at the link I posted above (2 posts up) where I summarized this strat for a "standard" game.
There is another (older) thread in this forum where I described an isolated start (huge archipelago map) but I already deleted the saves and the game (you will have to search for it) and I kept it very short because there was no interest. Perhaps I will do one last write-up for an isolated start when I finished my actual game in the stories and tales...
