Deity please! #4

[bobbyboy29]

@awilder

Spoiler :

Wow, we have remarkably similar openings, I got a bit more land but your diplo, tech situation is much better, the main difference is what the AI is doing around us. You got the jewish love fest while I have tenuous diplo situation with wars all over the place in which I basically can't please anyone. I'm interested to see how the 2 games compare in the long run!

 

[Dirk1302]

You're an awesome player awilder, i lurked around your Mansa Deity game (sorry for not posting), and it was good to see a player that is not scared by Rifles
Everyone seems to tell me that as well "Cavs vs Rifles? forget it", well i have no problems usually the AI just doesn't defend good enough.

Watch how ABCF goes about the rifling thing in deity please III. I usually try to avoid cavs against rifles and i often succeed in that by just picking an opponent not necessarily a neighbour but with airships it seems to be quite doable. it's just that there are good alternatives like going flight.

 

[awilder]

@mylene

Thanks!

@BB

Spoiler :

yeah I lucked out on religions that's for sure. Alex is actually fighting ram across my borders right now, and that surely woulda been me. I also gifted nappy math cause the religion bonus wasn't accruing fast enough for safety.

I'll keep playing this game as I can, it is nice to get some idea how much selling and trading w. the ai speedsthem up and how much being at war slows them down tech-wise

[\spoiler]

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Got daggered around 900 BC and a 2nd AI was bribed vs me. Reading the other summaries, this happened to exactly 0 other players, although one found his own way into war .

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Got daggered around 900 BC and a 2nd AI was bribed vs me. Reading the other summaries, this happened to exactly 0 other players, although one found his own way into war .

Noone was bribed on me but in my initial playthrough ( not recorded ) I was dominating alex and napoleon backstabbed. Ended in a huge stalemate and I never finished capping alex.

 

[GKey]

@Dirk1302 That were protective rifles, which makes quite a difference.

 

[GKey]

Well to me it was dominating Nappy when Alex backstabbed. 200BC, my considerable amount of axes made him postpone it.
With such a neighbors it's inevitable if they don't find third party to backstub.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Well to me it was dominating Nappy when Alex backstabbed. 200BC, my considerable amount of axes made him postpone it.
With such a neighbors it's inevitable if they don't find third party to backstub.

I bribed Nappy into war on Rosy, problem is he vassaled rosy and then he came after me while I was still busy with Alex

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The issue is timing. I'd have walled a DoW easily by 1 AD, but at 900 BC I didn't have much in the way of units yet, still struggling to get key blocking sites. If I'd spammed out axes on like 3 cities or something with no war plans, I'd have just gotten boxed in. How do people deal with this...luck ???

 

[AbsoluteZero]

The issue is timing. I'd have walled a DoW easily by 1 AD, but at 900 BC I didn't have much in the way of units yet, still struggling to get key blocking sites. If I'd spammed out axes on like 3 cities or something with no war plans, I'd have just gotten boxed in. How do people deal with this...luck ???

You must avoid the early dow at all costs because usually on deity you can't prepare for it unless you're in all out war mode.

With both alex + napoleon you know they are going to put the hurt on someone, that's a given. Luckily alex bribes at cautious and nappy bribes at pleased. So it should be a priority to get nappy to pleased and get a large tech lead early to bribe those 2 on someone else. It's very doable on this map. In my current game I bribed nappy on ramesses and then bribed alex on nappy all in 1000 BC using currency + theology ( which I bulbed with a GP from the oracle ). Worked like a charm and I am half finished with that game now and have vassalled 3 AI's.

Some of it's luck, but also not blocking warmongers helps. They tend to dow the closest rival, all else being equal.

 

[lymond]

AZ - definitely a good map to see a video from you

 

[Cusanus]

Resigned 1410 AD

Spoiler :

The warmongers didn't cause me any trouble; Alex was my friend and he vassalled Napoleon in an early war. After that, they fought a long and bloody war against SB for most of the remaining game.

I got to 9 cities, researched and traded peacefully and prepared for a spy+cav war against Ramesses. Maybe I should rather have chosen my friend Alex as a victim. Ramesses was researching too fast himself, had too many riflemen ready when I finally invaded. Most annoying thing was that he caught awfully many spies, so I had to build new ones instead of more cavs.
I managed to conquer 3 of his cities but had to make peace after that.
Backstabbing Roosevelt had no way of reaching me, Alex and Nappy blocked him out completely and luckily never opened their borders.

But now Ashoka is going for culture, and there's no way I'm gonna be able to stop him.
Plus, Ramesses will seak revenge sooner or later - although I might be able to turn Alex against him.

http://img858.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0180.jpg
http://rapidshare.com/files/452019084/Deity_4_AD-1410.CivBeyondSwordSave

Anyway, this was fun, and I'm actually quite happy with my performance. Someday, I think I might really win a Deity game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You must avoid the early dow at all costs because usually on deity you can't prepare for it unless you're in all out war mode.

With both alex + napoleon you know they are going to put the hurt on someone, that's a given. Luckily alex bribes at cautious and nappy bribes at pleased. So it should be a priority to get nappy to pleased and get a large tech lead early to bribe those 2 on someone else. It's very doable on this map. In my current game I bribed nappy on ramesses and then bribed alex on nappy all in 1000 BC using currency + theology ( which I bulbed with a GP from the oracle ). Worked like a charm and I am half finished with that game now and have vassalled 3 AI's.

Some of it's luck, but also not blocking warmongers helps. They tend to dow the closest rival, all else being equal.

In other words, I should have left off blocking alex, because the other would not have come after me w/o a bribe.

 

[Noogai]

I am in need of some good advices now. It's 1250 AD.

Spoiler :

Backround: Alex vassaled Roosevelt. Alex declared war on Ram. Nappy, Alex and me are jews. Sbull, Roose and Ram are christians.
I was planning on declaring Ram, but when I tried that, his stack easily crushed mine before I was able to say montezuma. Then after while Alex signed peace with Ram. ...After all that I reloaded my save in 1250 AD.
Now, Alex seems to be relatively weak, so I could backstab him. The problem is, that Nappy seems to love him, and Nappy doesn't like me..And Nappy has grenadiers (I have rifle stack)! The only option I see is to bribe Nappy declare on SBull (if I remember correctly it is possible if I give away all my techs or maybe I have to get him pleased first?) so that I'd have my back secured.
Here is the map and there you can see my stack (and Alex's):

Spoiler :

Here is the tech situation:

Spoiler :

And diplo screen:

Spoiler :

Any ideas?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

In other words, I should have left off blocking alex, because the other would not have come after me w/o a bribe.

Exactly, don't block off a warmonger unless you have a sure way of avoiding their early DOW. If there was just 1 of them gifting a city might be an option but with 2 it's better to just control them with war bribes.

I haven't finished my game yet but I already started uploading my videos:


part 1

part 2

part 3

part 4


@ Noogia If you can bribe nappy on alex it would be even better ( are they at friendly yet? ), then maybe go after alex or nappy. I wouldn't give anyone rifling yet though.

Another thing is grenadiers are not a problem for rifles if the rifles are the ones attacking. You could declare on nappy and let him march his stack into the open field and then attack them with your rifles. Once his main stack is gone you should not have much to fear from the few grenadiers wandering around in his territory.

 

[Noogai]

About 1550 AD

Spoiler :

I bribed Nappy against Alex and after a while I backstabbed. Alex made peace with Ram and Nappy, so I was left alone in war. I bribed Ram to not to attack me.
I fought bravely and I got 3-4 (depending on decision we have to make) cities from Nappy. Anyway I had to make peace because Nappy got infantries and machine gunners.
He didn't give me any techs or capitulation (I think he knew that I was kinda forced to make peace) and thing that makes this suck even more, is that I had to defy resolutions two times (otherwise I would have been forced to make peace with him). Now the question is, should I take 5 more red faces in my cities and Orleans, or make peace earlier? (I should still have the save before capturing Orleans and defying resolutions again time)
Here is the peace deal (about the same in both cases):

Spoiler :

Philadelphia is quite useless. I could give it to Roosevelt to make him happy, but since he is already vassal of Alex..

Spoiler :

Tech situation (ya it sucks):

Spoiler :

Amsterdam with red faces:

Spoiler :

Map and stack before capturing Orleans:

Spoiler :

And after:

Spoiler :

There is also third choice, which is not going to capture Orleans but trying to capture Paris. That could maybe make him give me some techs or even capitulation, but it would kind of risky (I saw he he having one infantry and he could make more..). When considering now, I actually think I should absolutely do that, but since I already used time to make this message I'm just gonna let be.

And question: When those "World considers you a villain" faces expire?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

The world considers you a villian expires in 20 turns or something like that.

I think you attacked too late, domination win is probably out of the question, you might cap nappy if you have enough troops to push toward his capitol. But after that I would try for diplo or space.

 

[vranasm]

The world considers you a villian expires in 20 turns or something like that.

.

I was the meaning that to get rid of this there has to be AP vote, which you will not defy and will come through.
Are you sure with natural decay?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I was the meaning that to get rid of this there has to be AP vote, which you will not defy and will come through.
Are you sure with natural decay?

According to the war academy:

Any Member can Defy most proposals (except for Diplomatic Victory and Resident Election). When a proposal is Defied it automatically fails. If the proposal would have passed had there been no Defiance then the Defier suffers three ramifications:

1. He loses his Full Member status if he is currently a Full Member.
2. He loses the +2 bonus from AP Religion Buildings he currently has and builds while in Defiance.
3. His current cities with the AP Religion acquire Villain status. New cities captured, founded or converted to the AP Religion after the Defiance vote has occurred do not acquire Villain status.

In order to undo ramifications #1 and #2, the Civ must vote yes on a proposal (Resident Election excluded) and that proposal must pass. #3 lasts for 20 turns regardless of any other events.

 

[awilder]

To 700AD

Spoiler :

So I pretty much turtled and teched on, while the world went to war. I built UoS in my cap after getting paper, and then triggered a GA with my artist to get some GS's. Unfortunately I couldn't switch back out of caste at the end so I still am missing the last uni for oxford

War-wise, alex is still on ram, while nap capped rosy, and then went after ram as well. Troops have been streaming across my lands and blood has been spattering on my precious beakers.

The bulbing went 1 into edu, 1 into PP, 1 into chemistry to set up:

and actually in retrospect that was not the greatest. My empire isn't ready to go *cannon yet really, and I didn't prebuild any cats or trebs . Add to that the fact that no one even has paper yet and maybe I should have set up something really ridiculous just for the wow factor. Otoh, I'd better get in on the war against Ram soon cause there are 3 on him right now. He hasn't lost a city yet though!

Next tech, I guess grab econ?

Guilds is not up for trade, and would be good for me anyway. Otoh, no one has nat yet either so I could grab the Taj perhaps:

Here's the land: