Deity Pyramids - why don't people like?

[MIS]

Hi guys, great players don't seem so excited about Pyramids. It seems a no brainer to me (if you are going mining first anyway). Pyramids is 150 hammers. A settler is 115 hammers, and you lose a pop. On deity, you are not getting a huge number of other wonders anyway. What am I missing?

 

[azum4roll]

It sorta messes up your build order since you need to start the Pyramids earlier than you usually do for Settler. And there's always that chance of failing - and the game's pretty much over if you do.

 

[looorg]

I build it all the time, for the reasons mentioned. But I think a lot of it has to do with game speed you play on. The faster you play at the less time you have for such things, if you play on a slower (or longer) speed it's absolutely viable -- and basically risk free to build (after the bonus on capital founding was removed). In longer speed (epic, marathon) you have time to build it while you research and do other things. After all it's not like you capital is really doing a lot of other things except growing at that time.

On Marathon I find that I can finish the Pyramids before the AI manage to grow to size four, research pottery and build their first settler. The line up issue then is if you go authority to try and sync it all up with the policies.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

I almost always go either pyramids or stonehenge and I play on deity (although I am not super good at the game so I am not sure it is correct). I do play on epic though, so maybe that is the difference. I have never attempted the pyramids or stonehenge and failed, and in some games I could have theoretically pulled of both of them. The only reason I could see for not getting one of them on epic or slower is if you have a super early UU that you want to go aggressive with pretty much.

 

[CrazyG]

There are a few reasons not to build it.

1. It increases the cost of future wonders.
2. It means you didn't build Stonehenge
3. There are situations you don't want to spend science on mining so early, such as a Hanging Gardens rush
   
4. It is a lot production spent really early not on military units. That can slow down authority by delaying barbarian kills or your early aggression.
   
5. Because doing the same thing every game gets boring

I think a secret, really good reason to build it is so that the AI doesn't. AI get bonuses for completing wonders and for settling a new city (so the Pyramids trigger twice). My last game Egypt built it and snowballed hard, he was in the classical era on turn 45.

 

[Stalker0]

You have to have the right terrain for an early wonder to build it competitively, which also means losing either a shrine or a monument...both big losses.

But if I have the right terrain, and mining is a good tech for my start, then by all means would I build it

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

You have to have the right terrain for an early wonder to build it competitively, which also means losing either a shrine or a monument...both big losses.

But if I have the right terrain, and mining is a good tech for my start, then by all means would I build it

Really? I have never failed to get either stonehenge or pyramids no matter what terrain I have, and that is with going monument or shrine before that. But I play on epic speed, dont know that that should make such a huge difference in the beginning though?

 

[LifeOfBrian]

It used to be that Pyramids were built around t30 on Deity standard speed, so it was a risk to go for it. Nowadays, the AI is much slower out of the gate, so lately I can without risk go monument, shrine (I usually stop at around the halfway mark, then go Pyramids, then go back and invest in the Shrine once I have enough money and build it in the remaining one turn) and Pyramids. So yeah, it's basically risk free.

 

[Stalker0]

So to me, the ideal pyramid build is t26 (which assumes no special civ power like Washington).

so I’m always of the impression that anything much later than that is just a gamble, not a true “strategy”

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Yes, that used to be the norm on Deity many months ago, but nowadays it's really certain to get Pyramids on turn t32 or something like that, and I've often seem Pyramids go as late as in the mid 40s.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Yea, I usually get it around turn 45 ish on epic and feel confident that noone is even close to getting it

 

[stii]

I build it pretty much every game, as others have said it is much safer now. I've never missed it off 20+ times. To the point where I started building more and more things first with a good start. Shrine second and maybe even a worker as well if you have high production.

Does require having ruins off as that can be an issue for super early wonder but having every wonder be impossible in some games isn't very fun anyway.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

True, I play with ancient ruins off, that's why it's easy to predict when Pyramids will be built.

 

[looorg]

True, I play with ancient ruins off, that's why it's easy to predict when Pyramids will be built.

I play with them on, it hasn't really changed anything. The productionboosts or free pops have not been an issue as far as the AI snag it.

 

[zeofig]

I like building them when I don't need a quick shrine (India, Byzantium, some others maybe).