Deity Tips

[yyeah]

Looks like Deity is not for me quite yet. I think I'm going to jump back to Immortal until I can play it with comfort with tough leaders

Thank you all for the input; I think I just lack the experience of grand strategy I guess.

You should playing on deity if IMM is starting to be ezy for you.
I remember my firsty steps on deity was like WTH its 2 or 3 lvl above IMM, in 2-3 games AIs just crushed me,but in every game i notice something, i learned something and finally i won my 1st deity game with WvO.

Last days i noticed taht HBR is strongest tech for trades early on.
Going for like AH -> HBR is v strong play you can trade it for BW, writing, then IW Alpha sometimes Maths depends on AIs and allso depends how fast AIs gets Alpha.
Good if you have reason go for HBR like WE or potencial HAs.

But still safest way to win deity is 6 city Lib race and cuir/cav rush inn this case Aste is i think strongest play, and i dont think thats Aste is slowing you down for like 2 main reasons.

At the begining my lib race games was heavly depended on TGL ( 1 bulb PHI 1 bulb Edu + academy in capitol). So going for Aste >Lit>Music its something on my regular tech path.

And you can get allmoust all techs for Aste including Math in some cases.

But hard to advicing becouse every map is diferent, way to play is heavly depended on map and leader. Sometimes you can go for GLH or Mids or x-bow rush, or Engi > Cannons ... just practice.

 

[stevenburns]

Looks like Deity is not for me quite yet. I think I'm going to jump back to Immortal until I can play it with comfort with tough leaders

Thank you all for the input; I think I just lack the experience of grand strategy I guess.

If you cant win games on immortal with random settings regularly, Deity will be very hard. For me though, I didnt learn to play on Deity by playing Immortal for a very long time but by losing the first 40-50 games on Deity. And losing means getting crushed.
You will get better in small steps and some lessons are harsh, but once I adopted to the AIs rate of expansion I felt more comfortable. Now my main concern is to get out military units quick enough. Normal speed makes it the challenge for me.

 

[Seraiel]

I need to add something to the advice I gave. I said, that "if you're still to insecure, you should keep playing Immortal" and I want to add to that "if you want to keep winning" , because of the two posts before, and because of my own story also.
I basically started on Deity, though Deity Huge / Marathon, which is very different. I also got crushed during the first games, I was barely able to found enough cities, and the guides I had read helped nothing. Then I discovered the Quechua-rush-guide by Virusmonster, and some games later, I had my first win with Incans. I still got the saves of those, my micro was horrible at that time, my game decisions questionable, my diplomacy a mess, but I never gave up, transfered the experience gained with Incans to Romans and from Marathon to Normal and even Huge / Quick.

If you're willing to lose a lot Revent, you can keep playing Deity, and you'll accustom to it. I don't know if this way is faster, but you always have the chance to set up a forum game, and as you see, enough people are willing to help you step up. My advice would just be, that you don't make it too impossible, if you take a normal start on Normal gamespeed with a CIV like Mao for example, you will have to consult people for every little micro decision, because those settings don't allow errors, they even cannot be won by 100% all the time, so think about Egypt, Epic and the Goldmine again. This is still harder than Immortal random probably.

 

[Revent]

Wow, I just tried out the beeline Alpha trick. On standard Pangea maps, where I can get horses hooked up, I can skip BW beeline Writing (boost research) then do Alpha to fill in all the techs I missed and it puts me on the same level with the AI.

A current game I'm playing, I tried that. AH->Writing->Alpha (backfill for everything since AI don't even have writing yet)->Bulb Maths->HBR->Construction to Elepult. All worked out as planned except Isabella declared on me whilst I only had 5 of my army units ready

 

[Seraiel]

You can usually trade for Maths, and if good diplomacy, even Construction in time. Better research different techs, like Currency, CoL or Aesthetics. Theology is also imaginable, because then, you could run Theocracy for 5XP units.

That doesn't help you against an early DoW, but I found it always better to have something good for trade, and trade with specific AIs to slow down one as much as possible by not trading with it, then to globally reduce the tech-tempo by trading less overall.

 

[yyeah]

Wow, I just tried out the beeline Alpha trick. On standard Pangea maps, where I can get horses hooked up, I can skip BW beeline Writing (boost research) then do Alpha to fill in all the techs I missed and it puts me on the same level with the AI.

A current game I'm playing, I tried that. AH->Writing->Alpha (backfill for everything since AI don't even have writing yet)->Bulb Maths->HBR->Construction to Elepult. All worked out as planned except Isabella declared on me whilst I only had 5 of my army units ready

Did you have gold start ?

You can usually trade for Maths, and if good diplomacy, even Construction in time. .

I think you are too used to HOF games Sera .
If you going for Construcion rush, allmoust never you will have math in time not mention construcion. Unless you can choose oponents or you have Mansa and hes for going Math.

Thats what Revent did is strong play maybe bulbing math is not efficient but ais reaching Feudalism v early on deity what makes Construcion obsolated preety fast ( thats why i dont realy like Constr rush) so it makes a huge diference if you strike faster sometimes allso you can catch ai still in expanding mode... witch meens not so many units.

Why i asked about gold start becouse what i dont like in this play is deleying Pottery for so long witch meens no eco ( moust importand thing on deity economy), and no grenaries ( whips not efficient), hard to pull out good rush without greanaries ...

 

[stevenburns]

Wow, I just tried out the beeline Alpha trick. On standard Pangea maps, where I can get horses hooked up, I can skip BW beeline Writing (boost research) then do Alpha to fill in all the techs I missed and it puts me on the same level with the AI.

A current game I'm playing, I tried that. AH->Writing->Alpha (backfill for everything since AI don't even have writing yet)->Bulb Maths->HBR->Construction to Elepult. All worked out as planned except Isabella declared on me whilst I only had 5 of my army units ready

Alpha beeline is amazing with the right circumstances. What did Isabella (of all leaders ) attack with? 5 phants might have been enough to defend.

 

[Seraiel]

I think you are too used to HOF games Sera .
If you going for Construcion rush, allmoust never you will have math in time not mention construcion. Unless you can choose oponents or you have Mansa and hes for going Math.

Thats what Revent did is strong play maybe bulbing math is not efficient but ais reaching Feudalism v early on deity what makes Construcion obsolated preety fast ( thats why i dont realy like Constr rush) so it makes a huge diference if you strike faster sometimes allso you can catch ai still in expanding mode... witch meens not so many units.

I'm not talking about a Construction rush, but about a full scale Construction war at 500 BC with 10 Elephants and 5 Catapults. Math gets researched quite early, if you trade Writing and Alpha to most AIs, which Revent did, and Construction is available in time if having friendly AIs, because AI loves to research it, only problem is, that AI doesn't trade it unless everybody has it or friendly. I don't know how much earlier you want to have Construction than maybe 1000 BC, only strategy to get it really early I know of is Oracle, all other approaches get it at about the same time as one could trade for it from friendly AI, Mansa not required. It's really not that difficult, trade Writing, trade Alpha, get +2 or +3 on diplomacy. Research HBR, trade for Maths, trade to rest, get some AIs on +4. OB gives +2, enlasting freedom gives +1, that's +7, +1 through resource-trade is definitely possible too, +8, underdog bonus +9, only +1 left out of sources like shared OR (Hatty) , Religion (can get easily +3 or +4 at that time) or shared war (difficult but possible sometimes) . Choose your allies early and by religion and friendly is np 'til 1000 BC. Chop-whip an Elepult-army in 500y, roll over the opponent you isolated, chance on LBs small to medium. If target reaches LBs, Elepult also beats those, only needs more Catapults because those get lost easily, Elephants have quite good chances against scratched LBs. Earlier Elepults would sacrifice too much expansion anyhow.

 

[stevenburns]

Did you have gold start ?

With the right leaders you dont even need early luxuries. Willem, Hatty and a few others may pull it off. Agg/Wheel starting techs are (as almost always) best, CRE helps a lot, so Sumeria shold work as well.

 

[stevenburns]

...only strategy to get it really early I know of is Oracle.

Would you bulb or tech math? This probably requires early luxuries or do you consider it doable without?

 

[Seraiel]

With the right leaders you dont even need early luxuries. Willem, Hatty and a few others may pull it off. Agg/Wheel starting techs are (as almost always) best, CRE helps a lot, so Sumeria shold work as well.

Sumeria has Vultures, they can rush 2000y earlier.

 

[stevenburns]

Sumeria has Vultures, they can rush 2000y earlier.

True. But I'm scared without catapults. Edit: and beelining alpha doesnt have to end in an attack/rush.

 

[Seraiel]

Would you bulb or tech math? This probably requires early luxuries or do you consider it doable without?

I would not Oracle Construction at all, because it's a high payment for low return. If Oracle, then research TW -> Pottery -> Writing -> Alpha -> (trade for everything, maybe self-tech Priesthood) -> chop-whip Oracle -> Currency. Expand to three cities in the meantime, so you don't lose something you'd miss if losing Oracle. Trade for all that Failgold which is available at that time and beg from all AIs before switching to a religion, research Construction (and Maths if needed) with 100%.

Problem of Oracle is, that it fails too often on Deity, which makes it either a HoF-strategy, or one must play safely for it and not invest too much by self-teching the pre-techs.

 

[stevenburns]

I would not Oracle Construction at all, because it's a high payment for low return. If Oracle, then research TW -> Pottery -> Writing -> Alpha -> (trade for everything, maybe self-tech Priesthood) -> chop-whip Oracle -> Currency. Expand to three cities in the meantime, so you don't lose something you'd miss if losing Oracle. Trade for all that Failgold which is available at that time and beg from all AIs before switching to a religion, research Construction (and Maths if needed) with 100%.

Problem of Oracle is, that it fails too often on Deity, which makes it either a HoF-strategy, or one must play safely for it and not invest too much by self-teching the pre-techs.

Ok. Kind of expected that answer. Dont like the oracle on Deity either. I goes at crazy dates too regularly in my experience. Pacal managed something like turn 50 lately, iirc.

 

[Seraiel]

True. But I'm scared without catapults. Edit: and beelining alpha doesnt have to end in an attack/rush.

If you rush at 2500 BC, AI has nothing but Archers in 20% culture cities. Vultures beat those easily. They're much stronger than regular Axes, almost like Praets, only earlier but therefore weaker. Key then is only founding the capital + one additional city for the Copper, everything else needs to go into Vultures, just like with a War Chariot or Immortal rush.

 

[Seraiel]

Ok. Kind of expected that answer. Dont like the oracle on Deity either. I goes at crazy dates too regularly in my experience. Pacal managed something like turn 50 lately, iirc.

T50 is still ok, and gives the player at least a chance. Earliest Oracle I've ever seen was 2860 BC by Isabella, it's the reason why I don't like to play against her and Gandhi anymore.

 

[stevenburns]

T50 is still ok, and gives the player at least a chance. Earliest Oracle I've ever seen was 2860 BC by Isabella, it's the reason why I don't like to play against her and Gandhi anymore.

I miscalculated, I guess, t50 gives the player actually a chance. 2860BC does not. The problem with rushes based on copper is, well, copper.

As I almost always play Standard, Pangaea, Normal teching BW with Sumeria is a gamble as Pottery and Writing always feel favorable. If one insists to rush with vultures they are a very strong unit, though.

It helped me to get better to not focus on strong early UUs, but to leverage/abuse starting techs in combination with traits. Some leaders I therefore still cant manage on a regular Pangaea start as they have weak synergies between techs and traits.

 

[yyeah]

Yea Sera iam talking about around 1000BC Constr and sth around 900-800BC strike ( 4 cities ), playing it atm. I have 2 gold start so i didnt have to bulb math. ( 2 ele 3 cats 2 skirmishers, another 2 we marching)
But without gold i would play it with hatty for example Pottery - writing( lib 2gs ) - AH - HBR - Construcion. Rest tech i would get from trades including Currancy. But that would be 3 cities i think.
Well yea if you get someone to friendly ok but this is out of rech for me you know that my diplo game is lacking a bit, but i belive that for you it is possible.

@stevenburns

Like i mentioned above. maybe i wasnt clear with it
Why iam asking about gold start is becouse Revent went AH->Writing->Alpha - Hbr and he skiped Pottery.
I wouldnt skip Pottery unless i have gold start.

 

[yyeah]

I forgot to add i bulid a Mids in meentime so my inicial stack should be bigger normaly.
Probably more metal units hmm .... i think i had 2 axes with this inital stack but not sure of it, dont remeber.

275BC

Spoiler :

I took out 3 hes cities and lost overall all i think 4 cats and 1 CR3 axe

Now i see that i have bulid 3 Wes so yea my inicial stack was 3 cats 2 we, 2 axes and 2 skirmishers,

 

[stevenburns]

@stevenburns

Like i mentioned above. maybe i wasnt clear with it
Why iam asking about gold start is becouse Revent went AH->Writing->Alpha - Hbr and he skiped Pottery.
I wouldnt skip Pottery unless i have gold start.

CRE does the trick. Two or maybe four scienists outperform even FIN cottages early on as you cant bulb a cottage.
Granaries arent needed that early. They are still the most effective building but without the whip you have your first cities at happy cap when they finish the granary. So you dont gain anything substantial.