[BNW] Deity Versus Series - The Huns

[beetle]

Deity Versus Series – Attila

I am posting a series of six to eight games, all using the same eight civs and the same map script, and taking notes on which civs the computer plays the best. This is the first game in the series, and with this map, you play Attila the Hun.

Please be encouraged to share your experience playing this map, but if you post in the first page of this thread, please use the SPOILER tag if you attach a picture, make a comment about your neighbors, nearby natural wonders, locations of ancient ruins, terrain features, luxes, resources, etc.

Before you download and start playing the map, please take a moment to speculate on your initial thoughts and plans for the game. Will you settle in place? Will you try to found a religion? What are your plans for getting the most from the UA and UU? What Victory Condition will you be aiming for?

After you play the map, please post about which civs lost their capitals to, or were eliminated by, other civs. Which AI thrived and which struggled? Did you feel any pressure from any of the AIs from their winning by SV, CV, or Diplo?

Please post the AI scores at your turn of victory (or defeat). I will be compiling those, to see if any obvious trends emerge.

The suggested VC is Domination, but play as you like, and all VC are enabled.

Spoiler for starting screen shot :

Spoiler for UA and UU :

Scourge of God: Raze Cities at double speed. Borrow City names from other in-game Civs. Start with Animal Husbandry technology. +1 Production per Pasture.

You can train the Horse Archer which replaces the Chariot Archer, but has a higher defensive strength (7 vs. 6), does not have the rough terrain movement penalty, starts with the Accuracy I promotion, and does not require Horses as a resource prerequisite.

You can also build the Battering Ram which replaces the Spearman. As compared to the Spearman, the Battering Ram is more expensive (75 hammers vs. 56), weaker (10 vs. 11), does not get defensive terrain bonuses, has 33% penalty on defense, -1 visibility range, and can only attack cities. One the positive side, the Battering Ram starts a free Cover I promotion and attacks cities at 300% strength!

Spoiler for the map type and other settings :

Standard size, standard speed, standard number of civs and CS, etc. Map type is Continents Plus, so expect the City States to be on the periphery of the continents and on islands. I used Rotate Start Position to pick the best spot and IGE to remove some blocking ice at the poles.

Spoiler for exactly which civs are in the game :

Civs have been chosen because the computer plays them well. Your opponents are Alexander, Augustus, Bismarck, Dido, Pocatello, Montezuma, and Sejong.

Please note that there are two save files attached to this post. The AI civs in the file with “lite” in its name have each had a settler and worker deleted. As compared to the player, they still start off with an extra warrior, scout, and worker.

This map requires having the DLC map packs.

 

[Grendeldef]

I played 20 turns and..

Spoiler :

looked at the game settings as I haven't met a single CS yet only to see the infamous 'Plus' in the map type and paused there. If the CS locations are like in that Harun game it will make quite an effect in the game from players' pov as it'll heavily favour Tradition over Liberty. Alex prolly survives the handicap with relative ease but it'll make the concept of CS much like spying - something that happens as numbers later on but not something that is present in the game from get go.
One doesn't get much happiness nor anything else out them because they can't be met before OB and clear barb camp quests will be non-existent nor will the AI ally CSs be any threat whatsoever.

One than that the start looks nice, no river or mining luxes. Settled in place and opened Liberty as usual but by now it looks like a moronic choice from rational pov as the 3rd lux is 12 tiles away and no outside happiness sources in foreseeable future. Fortunately the decision isn't based on a thinking process but just staying away from Tradition. Met three neighbours which probably are all on this continent, two went Liberty and Rome Honor so there are some chances for a war.
I'll return to this at some point.

 

[beetle]

I played 20 turns and… looked at the game settings as I haven't met a single CS yet only to see the infamous 'Plus' in the map type and paused there.

I am partial to Plus scripts since they help keep the CS alive and reduces the temptation for cheesy CS worker steals. Yeah, it does take longer to meet them.

 

[Grendeldef]

Maybe it's just me who fails to see the benefit to the game.

 

[phillipwyllie]

...I used Rotate Start Position...

How did you get rid of the mini-map fog of war bug that this mods mentions when you cycle the different starting locations?

...This map requires having the DLC map packs...

You might get more people playing if you use free map packs.

 

[beetle]

Maybe it's just me who fails to see the benefit to the game.

I may be in the minority thinking that the plus CS placement is better. I also like to pretend that I see improved continent generation, but I would be hard pressed to give examples!

How did you get rid of the mini-map fog of war bug that this mods mentions when you cycle the different starting locations?

If you save the game and reopen it without the mod running, the unfogged patches in the mini-map disappear.

You might get more people playing if you use free map packs.

The game is six years old and my view is that anyone still playing should pick up the DLC. Throw the developers a bone, and the Small Continents Plus is my favorite Firaxis map script. (There was a typo in OP. This map is Continents Plus, and I will use that script for the next games. (SCP is included with the paid DLC, while CP is included free.))

I am going through a bit of bother with RSP and IGE, so unloading the map packs would not be that much more work. But I just do not think that it will make a difference with participation. Do you have the DLC yourself?

 

[phillipwyllie]

.,...The game is six years old and my view is that anyone still playing should pick up the DLC. Throw the developers a bone.....Do you have the DLC yourself?

Point well made given that the CiV complete was ~$12 in the sale. I do have the map packs but have them uninstalled due to the consensus from earlier years that they be unticked.


Edit: I've just had a look at SteamDB and it seems on 22/8/17 500k more people picked CiV up with most giving it a shot. Those people are most likely CiV:Complete owners. Perhaps posting on the various civ related subreddits and other places they might hang out might bring in more players. Although a Deity series would be too much initially for them but how about an Emperor series as well?

 

[beetle]

I am play testing the next map in series. It looks pretty good too, but I missed some ice, and I will fix that for the game I post Friday.

...it will make quite an effect in the game from players' pov as it'll heavily favour Tradition over Liberty.

The other effect I definitely notice with the Plus scripts is that by moving the CS to periphery, there is significantly more more room in the central landmasses. Is that not a boon for Liberty play?

 

[Grendeldef]

Unlike Tradition Liberty isn't really self-supporting so to expand one needs some happiness in form of new luxes and/or CSs both of which are not available. Sure, there's the option of trading but it's highly unreliable. Also one needs money for which Caravans would be handy but none's close enough in the beginning and even that doesn't help if distance is vast as there won't be units enough to secure the route moreover if there's a war going on or in the plans one really is screwed.
The empty land is not a perk if there's no reasonable way to settle it though I admit that the game in its current form heavily favours Tradition over Liberty so it's not just one change in the setup that's less than satisfactory.

In this case

Spoiler :

I obviously had to contradict myself and settled 6 cities before NC - not a sensible move by any means but I thought after the 20 turns that eff it and go all out RP with this one. To make things more interesting I also DoWed Alex & Augustus right away after that and spend 15 turns with 3 units blocking Bism to settle the rivermouth to the West. 2nd Culture ruin would've be awfully nice as it'd have speed up the settling somewhat. Also I didn't quite expect to have the wars still going on @T96 when the Liberty Engineer was nice enough to build the NC for me.
Rome has 3x the Army I do, Bism is 12% ahead of me in tech, no hope of religion but I got the gem/pearl pantheon T66, the WWs are going before I have the tech, money issues, happiness issues, barbs are spawning everywhere because I don't have enough units and I have met 3 CSs so far on top of which I'm in war with one so basically I'm having the time of my life - well, not really but it could be worse.

 

[Grendeldef]

T200 and I can safely say that

Spoiler :

Korea still rocks though its start position is excellent as

Spoiler :

there's a water passage between the continents on their doorstep.

Korea is leading in everything and 7 techs ahead of anyone else without DoFs apart from me and constantly waging 1-5 wars since we met T75 or so mostly paid by me. He has 4 Modern techs while the rest have none so at this point nuke fest seems mandatory as Bombers won't reach him nor do I have sufficient Oil for proper war and if I don't have Uranium I'm screwed.
Capped Rome & Athens but sold, gave or razed everything else as means to get money nor did I have enough happiness to keep any.

 

[penguin74]

Almost 100 turns in and may have to restart. Not happy with the current progress.

Spoiler :

Went Liberty for the extra early production. Was happy when I saw all the land nearby to settle. 5 cities up and used the GE to pop national college. Problem is I am struggling hard for happiness, and there aren't capitals closeby so its hard to take advantage of Attila's early game. Will probably go to 150 or so, but if it looks like a lost cause, I'll try again

 

[Grendeldef]

I think I clearly warned about going Liberty here and while I'm not particularly liking the game I appreciate the mess I drove myself into.

---add.---

Few pix from T100 & 200.

 

[raider980]

Initial thoughts. I'll move the warrior south but I don't think there will be a reason to move. We're on a hill. We've got wine and pearls (I think) in first ring plus wheat and sheep so there would need to be a third lux in range for me to move.

I won't bother trying for a religion since its deity lite. I'll see who my neighbors are and maybe try to kill one of them but domination is hard even with The Huns.

 

[raider980]

Are raging barbs on? I rage quit last night because I couldn't do anything without a stupid barb popping up in my way. My armies were taking them on in the north so figured I'd try to sneak a settler to that sweet spot to the west... bam, ran right into a barb.

 

[Grendeldef]

Nope but there's quite a lot unsettled land so unless you're moving back and forth in the area all the time a camp will spawn quickly.

 

[beetle]

I have come to the conclusion that trying to take a worker from the AI just causes me to waste time not exploring and doing other things I should be doing. With the Huns it may be doable but I may not even try. I just get into trouble when I do.

This is a close-to-perfect start for experimenting with it. I only take a worker from the AI maybe one in five games, but it is really strong when it works out. And worker stealing is quite compatible with exploring!

Are raging barbs on? I rage quit last night because I couldn't do anything without a stupid barb popping up in my way. My armies were taking them on in the north so figured I'd try to sneak a settler to that sweet spot to the west... bam, ran right into a barb.

You want a few more HA then, which can train up to Accuracy 3 on the barbs. HA get a free promotion, but they are still starting with zero xp.

 

[Grendeldef]

Yup, HAs rule but they should get Logistics quickly to be properly effective hence my tech path usually with Attila and here as well is Archery & The Wheel before Mining or Pottery so I can kick out few HAs early 20s. In this game HAs capped Athens T189 so their life span can be quite long though that is a bit past average 'best before' date.

Spoiler :

My game took a considerable turn to the better when Korea was Embargoed T233 and few turns before that I stole Atomic T from Korea which revealed 3 Uranium sources - all in the same city - so my game plan is pretty clear. I'll be bulbing my way to Nuclear F rather sooner than later and nuke Korea to smithereens and sort the rest out later. Korea has Uranium but I'm sitting on it so he can't improve it and the CSs don't seem to have it so despite building Manhattan he's not a threat in that respect.
Techwise he's only 6 ahead of us anymore and Germany has surpassed in the Army size.

 

[beetle]

The next game in the series is up.

I just saw this:

Edit: I've just had a look at SteamDB and it seems on 22/8/17 500k more people picked CiV up with most giving it a shot. Those people are most likely CiV:Complete owners. Perhaps posting on the various civ related subreddits and other places they might hang out might bring in more players. Although a Deity series would be too much initially for them but how about an Emperor series as well?

That is interesting to see an older game attracting new players. As to your other points, neither posting on Reddit nor playing at Emperor have appeal for me.

 

[raider980]

Which one should I do?

Spoiler Civ to attack :

I am at a fork in the road. I have taken one Roman city and burned it to the ground. I was about to take a second one when Alexander DoW Rome and came in with a million hoplites, swordsmen, archers, catapults and took it instead. The city of Rome is 23 defense and has spearmen and CB and doesn't look too easy to take. Greece has 4 cities that I can see with 11-13 defense and Athens is 16 defense. But of course Alex has his million man army.

The question is: Should I try for Rome or make peace and attack Alex to attempt to stop his steamroller while my HA are still effective? My concern is that 23 defense is too much for HA so I'm not sure if I should bother with Rome (I also have a ram). Also a concern is that if I take out Rome then Alex has free reign over a lot of territory and will become unstoppable.

 

[penguin74]

Well that didn't go much better.

Spoiler :

Went 3 city tradition. Things were going reasonably well. Got a religion without really trying and had a decent army with a few triremes and went to take Athens as Alex was kind of weak. Rome was spreading everywhere like the plague, but they were fighting Germany so I thought I would be OK. Unfortunately, he DOW'd Alex right before I got there and took Athens right out from under me, so the whole trip was a waste of time. As I turned to go home, he made peace with Germany and launched an attack on me. Didn't know whether or not to go try and take Athens, or rush home for defense. Ended up not mattering, army was too big. I'll try one more time as that Germany start doesn't look fun.