Democracy vs Republic

[CapnKill]

Is there a guide somewhere that breaks down all the governments and lists the the pros and cons in a more detailed fashion?

At the moment I'm mainly interested in Democracy vs Republic. Should I choose Democracy if I have a small military and then Republic if I have a large one?

 

[vmxa]

The Pedia gives all the factors for each government. I see no need to ever go to democracy, surely not if you are not religious.

A small military will lead to demands and attacks, unless you are playing Warlord or something. Large militaries require large empires not a particular form of government.
Large militaries are best put to use by wars, not MP duties. Yeah I know no MP's in those two govs. People still have them garrisoned as if they got some value from it.

 

[Hunter Noventa]

Large militaries are best put to use by wars, not MP duties. Yeah I know no MP's in those two govs. People still have them garrisoned as if they got some value from it.

Well there is the fact that leaving cities wide open makes the AI more likely to go to war with you. It's entirely possible to maintain a 2 defender per town quota and still have a decent 'reaction force' if you prefer to be peaceful. This works better in Republic as it has better unit support.

The only real 'benefit' of democracy is the worker rate, but there are several optional, half-useless techs on the way there, wasting time you could be using to research replacable parts.

 

[CapnKill]

The Pedia gives all the factors for each government. I see no need to ever go to democracy, surely not if you are not religious.

A small military will lead to demands and attacks, unless you are playing Warlord or something. Large militaries require large empires not a particular form of government.
Large militaries are best put to use by wars, not MP duties. Yeah I know no MP's in those two govs. People still have them garrisoned as if they got some value from it.

Why do you see no need for Democracy? Is the 150% production not a good thing?

The first jump I make is to Monarchy, just to get out of Depot.. but I don't know what to do after that point.

I've looked at the differences in the Civ, but I'm having trouble interpreting all the values to the game. Can you explain MPs?

Is there an on-line Civopedia anywhere?

 

[Reprisal]

Democracy can be good if one is playing a builder-type game aimed at cultural or diplomatic victory, is it not?

Of course, I'm only a Regent-level player, but my shifts to democracy tend to be more profitable than republic.

- Rep.

 

[Twonky]

@ Capnkill: MP = Military Police. Every military unit in a city makes an unhappy citizen conent, up to a limit noted in the Pedia (2 in despotism, 3 in monarchy).

Republic gives you an extra commerce on every tile that already has one, and that´s a huge advantage. At the same time, war weariness is no big problem - while the opposite is true in a democracy.

So if you´re able to keep your people happy, I would always prefer Republic vs. Monarchy. I also prefer it vs. Democracy, because in my opinion the worker bonus does not make up for the war weariness trouble.

 

[CapnKill]

@ Capnkill: MP = Military Police. Every military unit in a city makes an unhappy citizen conent, up to a limit noted in the Pedia (2 in despotism, 3 in monarchy).

Republic gives you an extra commerce on every tile that already has one, and that´s a huge advantage. At the same time, war weariness is no big problem - while the opposite is true in a democracy.

So if you´re able to keep your people happy, I would always prefer Republic vs. Monarchy. I also prefer it vs. Democracy, because in my opinion the worker bonus does not make up for the war weariness trouble.

So the 150% Production Rate is only refering to worker rate? I thought it was everything... like money and shields.

 

[vmxa]

Well there is the fact that leaving cities wide open makes the AI more likely to go to war with you. It's entirely possible to maintain a 2 defender per town quota and still have a decent 'reaction force' if you prefer to be peaceful. This works better in Republic as it has better unit support.

The only real 'benefit' of democracy is the worker rate, but there are several optional, half-useless techs on the way there, wasting time you could be using to research replacable parts.

Yes it is quite possible to do any number of things, most of which will not be easy or make much sense.

It is not a fact that the AI will go to war with you if you have open (I think you mean undefended) towns. It will leave you quite alone, if you are strong compared to them. If you are weak compared to them, it will not matter if you have MP's or not.

Why would you want to pay the support for 2 units per town in Republic and actually have them in those towns? This makes no sense at all. These units will never get into any action and provide no boost.

If you are trying to have them to prevent the AI form coveting your land, move them to the border. At least there they can be used to attack or defend. The provide the same "peace" dividend, but are not out of place.

 

[CapnKill]

Why would you want to pay the support for 2 units per town in Republic and actually have them in those towns? This makes no sense at all. These units will never get into any action and provide no boost.

I don't know if I understand unit support correctly. When it says "2 units per town" does that mean that I get 2 FREE military units for every town I have? So if I have 20 cities I can have 40 units that I don't have to pay?

Do all units cost 1 gold each? Or do some cost more then others?

 

[DaveMcW]

Democracy is certainly better than Republic. But not many people are willing to go through 5-8 turns of anarchy during the switch.

The only drawback to Democracy is you go into anarchy if you lose too many battles.

 

[vmxa]

Why do you see no need for Democracy? Is the 150% production not a good thing?

The first jump I make is to Monarchy, just to get out of Depot.. but I don't know what to do after that point.

I've looked at the differences in the Civ, but I'm having trouble interpreting all the values to the game. Can you explain MPs?

Is there an on-line Civopedia anywhere?

MP are just what they sound like. They are police that enforce the laws. As such they make good citizen feel safe in times of trouble, hence they provide some happiness. The amount is a function of the form of government you are in. Despostism is 2 units per town. After that it gives no boost.

Demo has two problems in my book. 1- requires a second or third switch with its attendant anarchy. This is offset if you are Religious as it shortens the term of anarchy.
2-you must learn more optional techs just to get to it. This is very painful at the highest levels and at all elvels delays your getting into the next age.

I would not go to Monarchy, unless you plan to be at war most of the time. I do not even research Monarchy. I am not going to build the HG. The games I play the AI will crank out the HG before I know what us up.

Understand at the lower levels, you can get away with anything you want more or less, but as you get to Monarch and Emperor, you have to tighten up and beyond it only gets worse.

So good habits cannot start to soon.

 

[Rookie One]

In the republic and democracy govs you have to pay one gold piece for every unit you have. In the monarchy and communisim govs you don't have to pay that for some units, depending on how many cities you have and how much population they have.(You can see how many units you support in the millatary tab). I'm not sure at which population a town becomes a city and a city becomes a metropolis.

 

[vmxa]

Democracy can be good if one is playing a builder-type game aimed at cultural or diplomatic victory, is it not?

Of course, I'm only a Regent-level player, but my shifts to democracy tend to be more profitable than republic.

- Rep.

Yes they can be profitable. The downside is researching extra techs you do not need, lost production to switch.

If you are not dominating the AI at this point, the Demo can get into problems with wars. So if you are playing Warlord and are kicking butt when you switch, you will be fine.

If you still face some strong civs and will be in wars, you could give back all gains with WW cost. In C3C it is quite common for the AI to not even talk to you for a number of turns while at war. In my games I have had them ignore me until I was down to their last city. This would cause a demo to fall apart, if you do not have most of the lux.

In short, if I am doing so well that I can go to Demo, I do not need demo. I mean I am already stomping in Rep, so why switch? Why take a chance, why slow down for anarchy?

 

[CapnKill]

MP are just what they sound like. They are police that enforce the laws. As such they make good citizen feel safe in times of trouble, hence they provide some happiness. The amount is a function of the form of government you are in. Despostism is 2 units per town. After that it gives no boost.

Demo has two problems in my book. 1- requires a second or third switch with its attendant anarchy. This is offset if you are Religious as it shortens the term of anarchy.
2-you must learn more optional techs just to get to it. This is very painful at the highest levels and at all elvels delays your getting into the next age.

I would not go to Monarchy, unless you plan to be at war most of the time. I do not even research Monarchy. I am not going to build the HG. The games I play the AI will crank out the HG before I know what us up.

Understand at the lower levels, you can get away with anything you want more or less, but as you get to Monarch and Emperor, you have to tighten up and beyond it only gets worse.

So good habits cannot start to soon.

I don't build wonders ever because I read that "addiction to wonder" article, plus the AI allways gets them pretty fast anyway. I'd like to use strategies that will not become obsolete on higher difficulty levels. At the moment I'm just playing on Regent. I've gotten to the point where I'm middle of the pack where it comes to Techs. Perhaps I would've been further up if I avoided Monarchy and Democracy. Thats two Anarchy periods I had to deal with (not religious) plus all the "optional" techs I could've probably skipped. But I'm still learning, so no biggie.

So from my understanding, the main plan is to shoot for Republic?

Is there a "tech guide" somewhere with the best paths to take depending on what type of race yo uhave and all that?

 

[k-a-bob]

In the republic and democracy govs you have to pay one gold piece for every unit you have.

That depends on what game you have, in Vanilla Civ this is true, in Conquests it is not. PTW - I don't know.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Democracy is certainly better than Republic. But not many people are willing to go through 5-8 turns of anarchy during the switch.

The only drawback to Democracy is you go into anarchy if you lose too many battles.

For vanilla Civ3/PtW, yes. It's the anarchy that turns me off.
For C3C, I'd say Republic is the better choice anyway; you do have a substantial amount of free units, and once you've learned to only marginally exceed those, Republic is clearly superior to Demo. The Workers don't matter that much - that's what Slaves are for.

 

[Reprisal]

I think I read an article somewhere that stated War Weariness only occurs when your combat units are outside cultural borders and possibly when battles and/or cities have been lost in significant numbers. If only fighting a defensive war, then democracy would not be bad at all. I suppose you could say something about the fallacy of fighting a defensive war, but I've been successful so far...

You are correct about Republic being all-around good, however, as I just played a small 70% continents map as the Arabs and won by Domination (my first time! ) -- I don't think I could have done that with Democracy, but I was consciously playing different from how I normally play...

- Rep.

 

[vmxa]

In the republic and democracy govs you have to pay one gold piece for every unit you have. In the monarchy and communisim govs you don't have to pay that for some units, depending on how many cities you have and how much population they have.(You can see how many units you support in the millatary tab). I'm not sure at which population a town becomes a city and a city becomes a metropolis.

Town is size 6 or less
City is size 7 to 12
Metro is over 12

 

[CapnKill]

For vanilla Civ3/PtW, yes. It's the anarchy that turns me off.
For C3C, I'd say Republic is the better choice anyway; you do have a substantial amount of free units, and once you've learned to only marginally exceed those, Republic is clearly superior to Demo. The Workers don't matter that much - that's what Slaves are for.

So the 150% production rate ONLY refers to worker speed?

 

[vmxa]

I think I read an article somewhere that stated War Weariness only occurs when your combat units are outside cultural borders and possibly when battles and/or cities have been lost in significant numbers. If only fighting a defensive war, then democracy would not be bad at all. I suppose you could say something about the fallacy of fighting a defensive war, but I've been successful so far...

You are correct about Republic being all-around good, however, as I just played a small 70% continents map as the Arabs and won by Domination (my first time! ) -- I don't think I could have done that with Democracy, but I was consciously playing different from how I normally play...

- Rep.

Just ending your turn with units in their land adds to WW. So it is likely that you will have troops in their land for the whole of the war or nearly so anyway.

Losing units, well it is hard to not lose a unit, especially if they have better ones than you.

30 points is enough to trigger the first threshold as I understand it. I could have 15 units in their land, so in 2 turns I have gone over the break point. That without even losing any.

If you are going to have a short war, you should be fine, If it goes on for 15 or more turns you are going to have big problems, unless you have all the WW cures you can get.